The Reason Why Job Suffered?

[miknik5]

Here is a scripture I just ran across, about abiding in the Lord.

1 John 4:12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him

20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can[c] he love God whom he has not seen?

W2L
Sorry. I posted off of you but meant to post off another post

 

[W2L]

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[Radrook]

So, how did God answer Job's questions in the "whirlwind speech" at the end of the book?

I have always considered that answer unsatisfactory. To me it comes across as simply telling Job to be quiet and don't ask for explanations. To simply trust based on God's creative abilities and power. Perhaps I a deficient in understanding this part of Job and someone could help me out..

 

[miknik5]

I have always considered that answer unsatisfactory. To me it comes across as simply telling Job to be quiet and don't ask for explanations. To simply trust based on God's creative abilities and power. Perhaps I a deficient in understanding this part of Job and someone could help me out..

I agree.
And it was what GOD expected from His servant(s). Faith in HIM that HE is working out all the good from what appears to be everything but good

It was when and almost immediately when Job opened his mouth (something he initially said he would not do lest his mouth cause him to sin) that GOD was right there saying "who are you, man, to disturb MY Council?"

 

[Radrook]

I agree.
And it was what GOD expected from His servant(s). Faith in HIM that HE is working out all the good from what appears to be everything but good

It was when and almost immediately when Job opened his mouth (something he initially said he would not do lest his mouth cause him to sin) that GOD was right there saying "who are you, man, to disturb MY Council?"

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[bling]

I think you might be missing the point;

1. Was Job spiritually more mature at the end of Job than at the beginning?
   
   
2. What problem did Job finally show that needed correction?
   
   
3. Would Job have easily acknowledged this problem prior to the disaster, because he would have realized he had a problem?
   
   
4. Would God have known of Job’s problem prior to satan’s visit?
   
   
5. Did satan manipulate God to get at Job or did God manipulate satan to get satan to do stuff God could not do (hurt innocent people) and bring Job to the point of accepting God’s understanding of his problem?
   
   
6. Does this give us an example of the degree to which God will go in order to help us to grow spiritually?
   
   
7. Is this an example of the role satan plays indirectly helping good people become even better?
   
   
8. It is “unfortunate” that some of Jobs children went to be with God in heaven and leave Job and his wife, but how big of a price will God pay to help us?
   

 

[miknik5]

If we can't run with men hue can we run with horses

He expects HIS servants to wait and keep their eyes set above and beyond trusting in HIM who is bothe faithful and sovereign so that though HE may hide his face (temporarily) from jacobs struggles, HE will no longer delay but will come straight way

Blessed the man who waits for HIM, who keeps HIS GARMENT with him and does not "go out"

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I agree.
And it was what GOD expected from His servant(s). Faith in HIM that HE is working out all the good from what appears to be everything but good

It was when and almost immediately when Job opened his mouth (something he initially said he would not do lest his mouth cause him to sin) that GOD was right there saying "who are you, man, to disturb MY Council?"

That makes no sense..

Job 2:13
Then they sat down on the ground with him for seven days and seven nights with no one speaking a word to him, for they saw that his pain was very great.​

Next verse

Job 3:1
After this, Job opened his mouth and cursed the day of his birth.​

 

[W2L]

Next verse

Job 3:1
After this, Job opened his mouth and cursed the day of his birth.​

Interesting. Did Job curse God with that? The bible does say we are all born into sin (and under a curse I think) and therefore must be born again.

 

[miknik5]

I think you might be missing the point;

1. Was Job spiritually more mature at the end of Job than at the beginning?
   
   
2. What problem did Job finally show that needed correction?
   
   
3. Would Job have easily acknowledged this problem prior to the disaster, because he would have realized he had a problem?
   
   
4. Would God have known of Job’s problem prior to satan’s visit?
   
   
5. Did satan manipulate God to get at Job or did God manipulate satan to get satan to do stuff God could not do (hurt innocent people) and bring Job to the point of accepting God’s understanding of his problem?
   
   
6. Does this give us an example of the degree to which God will go in order to help us to grow spiritually?
   
   
7. Is this an example of the role satan plays indirectly helping good people become even better?
   
   
8. It is “unfortunate” that some of Jobs children went to be with God in heaven and leave Job and his wife, but how big of a price will God pay to help us?

In the end, some of the "wise" will stumble so as to be made pure for the time of the end and will lead many to true and holy and perfect and unbiased righteousness which means leaving all things to GOD and not uprooting, not avenging, not living by the sword, but waiting and trusting in HIM who already said;

Not by power or by might but by MY SPIRIT

So easy to claim we know HIS SPIRIT when no one is against us

But when all things seem to be against us, remember what HE said/
In this world you will have trouble but take heart for I have overcome the world

And who is it who has overcome the world?

The answer will be found in 1 John 5

 

[mark kennedy]

So, how did God answer Job's questions in the "whirlwind speech" at the end of the book?

Job couldn't have known that the reason Job suffered was because God was bragging on him. Job had silenced his friends who argued that he was being punished, Job finally makes his defense and the fourth friend wants to say something but his speech transitions into a description of the approach whirlwind, I suspect was like the column of smoke in the Exodus and Numbers. Any way it ends as it began and it comes down to three words, ' my man Job', this is the praise that comes from God rather then men. God tells it to Satan and Job is tested. God says it to Jobs fair weather friends telling them you haven't spoken the truth about me, like my man Job. Then at the end God's bragging on Job again only the Devil is silent, and God tells him to stay away from my man Job.

The connection to the prophet's, early church and of course Christ himself is unmistakeable.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[miknik5]

Job couldn't have known that the reason Job suffered was because God was bragging on him. Job had silenced his friends who argued that he was being punished, Job finally makes his defense and the fourth friend wants to say something but his speech transitions into a description of the approach whirlwind, I suspect was like the column of smoke in the Exodus and Numbers. Any way it ends as it began and it comes down to three words, ' my man Job', this is the praise that comes from God rather then men. God tells it to Satan and Job is tested. God says it to Jobs fair weather friends telling them you haven't spoken the truth about me, like my man Job. Then at the end God's bragging on Job again only the Devil is silent, and God tells him to stay away from my man Job.

The connection to the prophet's, early church and of course Christ himself is unmistakeable.

Grace and peace,
Mark

beautiful response. GOD put Jobs faithfulness on display!

Thanks for that insight

 

[mark kennedy]

beautiful response. GOD put Jobs faithfulness on display!

Thanks for that insight

Thanks, Job was the first Old Testament book I studied. My favorite line was when Job tells his friends, oh that you were altogether silent, that for you would be wisdom.

 

[miknik5]

Thanks, Job was the first Old Testament book I studied. My favorite line was when Job tells his friends, oh that you were altogether silent, that for you would be wisdom.

YES. Me too! I can just picture it

Job sitting in silence and a bunch of noise telling hI'm what he should.....doooooooo

Being still and silent before GOD is sufficient

 

[mark kennedy]

I don't agree

Reducing it to folklore is absurd, generally when its figurative there is a 'like' or 'as' in the immediate context. What the poser is describing is unbelief not an alternative interpretation. There is nothing in the literary features suggesting that.

 

[Deadworm]

From Job's perspective, God's reply illustrates the danger of anthropomorphizing God and using familiar ethical terms to capture God's nature. We can infer God's love and goodness from His gracious acts in behalf of Israel, but we can't take the next step and define God's ethical traits so precisely that His conduct becomes predictable. In that sense, the story illustrates God's statement: "As far as the heavens are above the earth, so are my thoughts higher than your thoughts, and my ways than your ways (Isaiah 55:7-8)."

The story contains 2 additional implications:
(1) The OT teaches that at creation God brought order out of chaos, but it never claims that God took total control of the forces of chaos. The story of Job illustrates the point that God does not micro-manage the universe. When the innocent are killed by natural disasters (earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, even sudden infant death syndrome, etc.), it cannot be assumed that God willed those catastrophes to happen. Job has no idea about the "bargain" with Satan, and God prohibits Satan from killing Job, but does not micro-manage the havoc wreaked by Satan. This is a metaphor for a universe that runs according to its own laws without regular inference from God to prevent unfair suffering.

(2) The Johannine hymn (John 1:1-18) identifies Jesus as the divine Logos, a term that means the rational self-expression of God as opposed to God in His unknowability.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

From Job's perspective, God's reply illustrates the danger of anthropomorphizing God and using familiar ethical terms to capture God's nature. We can infer God's love and goodness from His gracious acts in behalf of Israel, but we can't take the next step and define God's ethical traits so precisely that His conduct becomes predictable. In that sense, the story illustrates God's statement: "As far as the heavens are above the earth, so are my thoughts higher than your thoughts, and my ways than your ways (Isaiah 55:7-8)."

The story contains 2 additional implications:
(1) The OT teaches that at creation God brought order out of chaos, but it never claims that God took total control of the forces of chaos. The story of Job illustrates the point that God does not micro-manage the universe. When the innocent are killed by natural disasters (earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, even sudden infant death syndrome, etc.), it cannot be assumed that God willed those catastrophes to happen. Job has no idea about the "bargain" with Satan, and God prohibits Satan from killing Job, but does not micro-manage the havoc wreaked by Satan. This is a metaphor for a universe that runs according to its own laws without regular inference from God to prevent unfair suffering.

(2) The Johannine hymn (John 1:1-18) identifies Jesus as the divine Logos, a term that means the rational self-expression of God as opposed to God in His unknowability.

The laws of cause and effect are always in place except when superimposed by a miracle.

 

[miknik5]

The laws of cause and effect are always in place except when superimposed by a miracle.

The laws of cause and effect are not in place when HE who holds all things back is taken out of the way

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

The laws of cause and effect are not in place when HE who holds all things back is taken out of the way

Kinda falls into the category of miracle don't it

 

[miknik5]

Kinda falls into the category of miracle don't it

The laws of cause and effect. All the things that nsturally held which we have held as long held truths will no longer hold

A miracle?
No
Evil without restraint

A full blown "season of Job"