The real time conversion? What may it be...

[ComingWitDaBig3]

[bible]
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, let not this one thing be hidden from you, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow concerning His promise, as some count slowness, but is long-suffering toward us, not purposing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
[/bible]

I find it interesting that when I explain to people (about 4 or so so far) that time is just a concept, that it doesn't exist, (that may be tested in another thread), they have told me:
"What about 2Peter 3:8?"
I tell them:
"What about the next verse, just because there may be a 'time conversion' in the first verse I know that Peter's message includes the next verse"

I'll like to know: Do you think 2Peter 3:8 is the real 'time conversion' between our 'time' and the Lord's 'time'? Why or why not.

Also I think that the real time conversion is so extrodinary that we may never understand until we die and go to heaven, which will be one thing that may be revealed to us. What do you think about or what is the time conversion?

 

[Rising SON]

Good point.If you want t see how relative time is,stare at a clock,and see how long 5 minutes takes to go by.(do this in private,so your neighbors dont think you are nutty.)

There are verses that indicate time is illusory.

Wew WERE buried with him in baptism.We WERE raised with him.How could that be,if we were not there in our temporal bodies,yet somehow we were.

As far as my time saved,I go by my conversion moment,yet in a funny way,I always was if you take of the illusion of time,in the same way as heaven is timeless.

 

[Svt4Him]

I'd respond but I have no idea what exactly you're asking or saying.

 

[map4]

I don't know for sure what the time conversion is. But God is eternal, there is no beginning or end. Our finite minds can't comprehend that. We have to have things broken down to time frames for us to understand.

I think that's part of the problem when we think our prayers are being answered or that it's taking too long, etc. To us maybe. But not to God since time is not a factor to Him the way it is for us.

 

[KleinerApfel]

A friend of mine says that, "Time is a bubble that the Lord blew in eternity."

Makes some kind of sense to me anyway.

God made time, it is therefore real, but the far greater and more permanent reality of eternity surrounds it entirely, and that is where God dwells, unlimited by the bubble we're living in.

Yet that bubble contains a taste of eternity too - because scripture says that God has set eternity in the hearts of men.

From God's position He simultaneously dwells in eternity and reaches into the bubble of time, ( ooh,and just a thought - maybe there is more than one bubble?!)

Now, did that make any useful contribution to the conversation or just boggle your mind further?

 

[KingZzub]

I personally believe that God is in time. Time is simply the rule that effects follow causes. Genesis 1.1 says that "in the beginning God created", so before God created there was still time, there was still a tomorrow and a yesterday, a then and a now.

God does not live in a dimension where He can make a cause follow an effect - this is one of the things God cannot do. God is involved in time because God is involved in our lives, involved with us. We can ask and receive - the effect follows the cause.

Never does the cause follow the effect, in heaven, on earth or even with God. Eternity is time forevermore, the reality that there will never be a day where it all ends, where we end, where we have to be seperate, where we have to know death.

Blessings,
Benjamin

 

[ComingWitDaBig3]

I personally believe that God is in time. Time is simply the rule that effects follow causes. Genesis 1.1 says that "in the beginning God created", so before God created there was still time, there was still a tomorrow and a yesterday, a then and a now.

The perspective in which Moses heard and wrote the qoute mention, is that related to describing what has happened based on humnaty's or man's perspective, not necessarily the Lords perspective.

 

[KingZzub]

You don't think that Moses was inspired when he wrote Scripture?

 

[Svt4Him]

Personally I think God is outside of time, as it was created by Him. Hard to wrap my head around, but I believe it none the less.

 

[the.Sheepdog]

and I agree with that svt. He can see yesterday today and tomorrow all at the same time.

 

[Svt4Him]

I think that's why God is able to take away the trauma in our past when we go back and allow Him into those situations. I'm going to do a sermon on it soon, out of exodus.

 

[KingZzub]

I think that's why God is able to take away the trauma in our past when we go back and allow Him into those situations. I'm going to do a sermon on it soon, out of exodus.

God restores our soul NOW, He doesn't go back in time and heal us because God can't go back in time. All of this healing of memories stuff is not found in Scripture and is not Biblical nor helpful.

God is the I AM, not the I WAS.

Blessings,
Ben

 

[ComingWitDaBig3]

You don't think that Moses was inspired when he wrote Scripture?

Of course, but I was talking about perspective, not inspiration(though it is important).

 

[Svt4Him]

God restores our soul NOW, He doesn't go back in time and heal us because God can't go back in time. All of this healing of memories stuff is not found in Scripture and is not Biblical nor helpful.

God is the I AM, not the I WAS.

Blessings,
Ben

God can't go back in time? So I guess He can't go forward then either eh? He's not bound by what He's created? Can't really see that in Scripture. So when you ask if God is in our past, the answer is I AM. If you ask if God is in our future, the answer is I AM. Doesn't really prove your point.

And I said nothing about healing of memories, I said God can go back into those situations, which is actually quite different.

 

[KingZzub]

God can't go back in time? So I guess He can't go forward then either eh? He's not bound by what He's created? Can't really see that in Scripture. So when you ask if God is in our past, the answer is I AM. If you ask if God is in our future, the answer is I AM. Doesn't really prove your point.

And I said nothing about healing of memories, I said God can go back into those situations, which is actually quite different.

God is not bound by His creation, but He is bound by His nature and by His Word.

Could God go back in time before I was conceived and stop my parents meeting? No. The universe was designed that causes follow effects, never the other way around. Sowing and reaping will always be that way round. If God ever changes that, He will be a liar, and as I am sure you are aware from Scripture God cannot lie.

Is God in my future? Not yet - He will be tomorrow though. I'll tell you how it went when I get there!

Blessings,
Benjamin

 

[Svt4Him]

So according to you God couldn't say walk through a door? Wow. But it seems that you've dismissed the Bible stories even before they've been shown, and God has said before we were even formed He knew us. How is that?

Sowing and reaping really have nothing to do with this, but I can tell you that when Jesus became sin, He became my sin and in so doing, took my sin away as well as the sin caused against me. To allow Jesus to go back to that sin does not involve God lying, no matter how you try and play that.

 

[KingZzub]

So according to you God couldn't say walk through a door? Wow. But it seems that you've dismissed the Bible stories even before they've been shown,

I never said God couldn't say walk through a door. Wow, it seems you have dismissed my argument even before you have understood it.

and God has said before we were even formed He knew us. How is that?

Which Bible verse is this exactly. Thanks.

Sowing and reaping really have nothing to do with this, but I can tell you that when Jesus became sin, He became my sin and in so doing, took my sin away as well as the sin caused against me. To allow Jesus to go back to that sin does not involve God lying, no matter how you try and play that.

Sowing and reaping have everything to do with it. If I kick the cat yesterday the cat will be scared of me today. I cannot go back in time and unkick the cat, nor can God. I can change the cat's attitude today by my actions today, but I cannot retroactively do anything, nor can God as that is totally impossible.

Blessings,
Ben

 

[Svt4Him]

Didn't dismiss the argument, only misunderstood, totally different. And now I see that what I said was not a correct understanding of what you said, fair enough. But even misunderstanding an argument is not the same thing as dismissing one before it's even heard.

But let's look at the verse, it's from Jeremiah 1:5 which says I knew you before I formed you in your mother's womb. How is that possible if in fact God is bound by time. As a matter of fact, God can not know everything if He is bound by this time, as there are things that will happen that God is unaware of. Doesn't work.

As for your sowing and reaping story, you are wrong. You can kick a cat, and God can in fact change the cat's attitude so you walk into a room and the cat is not afraid of you. Now the example may be a bit weird as we're now using animals, but the heart of the king is in the hands of the Lord and He changes it, that's His word. If you repent of your sin, and God becomes that sin, then the situation does change, and God does have the power to change the heart. Now you say retroactively change it so the fear the cat had up to the point never existed, but that is again wrong. When you introduce God into that situation, the fear disappears, and from that moment on, it is like it never existed.

 

[KingZzub]

Why doesn't it work, Svt? Why are you assuming that there ipso facto cannot be things God does not know?

God doesn't know what is going to happen tomorrow because tomorrow hasn't happened yet! Jeremiah 1.5 uses the word yada for know which can equally mean that God choose or selected Jeremiah (many Bibles will have this as a footnote). God chose Jeremiah, but Jeremiah could have told God to get lost. It is called free will. There are many people who God chose in the womb, but told God to get lost.

People in hell have a destiny and a purpose for their life, they chose to reject that destiny. Life is not a game of chess with God knowing all the moves. He knows all the pieces - He knows us intimately, what we can do and what we are capable of, but He has given us free will so our actions can and do surprise Him.

Without faith, I cannot please God. You cannot please someone if they know everything you are going to go for all eternity. You cannot please someone if you are merely a Shakespearian actor following the script blindly. You cannot please someone if you are mere robot to causality.

Free will means the future has not been written yet. It is that simple.

Following on from your use of my cat analogy, it can be like it never happened. There are certain things in my life that it is like they never happened. Like is not the same as "is" though.

Blessings,
Benjamin

 

[Elecmech]

I don't think I can enter into the current philosophical debate that SVT and Zzub are sorely trying to argue over [both are pastors ].

I simply believe that 'time' is a vehicle. We as mankind cannot travel either forward or reverse in time, but the Lord surely can. He knows the 'end' from the 'beginning'. According to Eccl. 1:4-10 and Eccl. 3:15, our world time runs its course to a certain end mandated by God then begins again by repeating its same course. [obviously the repeated course has been changed (or modified if you will) by the actions of men [mankind being made in the likeness and image of God (little gods) we still are capable in spiritual death].
The understanding of time as we know it has become very upset by the latest theorists in Quantum Mechanics. QM is dealing with the very sub-atomic levels of the things known. On this level there are unseen things that are affecting the known atoms themselves. It bears looking into!
Yeah. Knowledge of man has increased in these last days. And so have the things for which we find we had no previous knowledge of. We do know according to Revelation that in the age to come, if a man dies at the age of 100, the people around will lament that he was a young man. Now days, we would say that at 100 years he was quite old indeed!
God is eternal. He is from everlasting to everlasting. When Jesus returns at the 2nd Coming and receives His sheep, we will be with Him for ever and ever. Eternity, everlasting to everlasting, for ever and ever, amen! Can any of us wrap our tiny minds around these concepts? Not to change the subject, but when Jesus said that His saints will do greater things [on the miraculous] than He did, the majority are still flustered about doing 'what' He did.
Is there a real time conversion? I tell you what, can any one of us say with any certainty, "I know how long it takes for faith to be manifest.", then you will have enough understanding to answer the question of this thread .