The real time conversion? What may it be...

[Svt4Him]

Why doesn't it work, Svt? Why are you assuming that there ipso facto cannot be things God does not know?

God doesn't know what is going to happen tomorrow because tomorrow hasn't happened yet! Jeremiah 1.5 uses the word yada for know which can equally mean that God choose or selected Jeremiah (many Bibles will have this as a footnote). God chose Jeremiah, but Jeremiah could have told God to get lost. It is called free will. There are many people who God chose in the womb, but told God to get lost.

Regardless of how you translate it, God said before Jeremiah was even in the womb, God chose him. So I don't see how that proves your point. God chose him before he was conceived, so yes, God does in fact know the future.

And it does work, to answer your question.

I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.

God is the beginning and the end, and knows all things (1 John 3:20). There is nothing that comes as a surprise to God.

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

You may believe that this means God chooses everyone, and some reject Him, I chose to believe that He knows everyone who is His, and He knows them even before they're born.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Regardless of how you translate it, God said before Jeremiah was even in the womb, God chose him. So I don't see how that proves your point. God chose him before he was conceived, so yes, God does in fact know the future.

And it does work, to answer your question.

I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.

God is the beginning and the end, and knows all things (1 John 3:20). There is nothing that comes as a surprise to God.

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

You may believe that this means God chooses everyone, and some reject Him, I chose to believe that He knows everyone who is His, and He knows them even before they're born.

Well said Svt4Him. God chose Jeremiah because He knew Jeremiah would fulfill the destiny that God gave him.

The belief that God knows the beginning from the end is a very orthodox belief, even among most orthodox Jews.

Ecclesiastes 1:9-10, The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Is there anything whereof it may be said, see, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

The belief is that time doesn't move along a line but on a circle, and while we are traveling along on the circle God sees the whole thing.

 

[KingZzub]

So Jeremiah has no free will then? He was damned to his destiny no matter what he chose?

Is that really what you think? Am I damned to my destiny, or can I make choices?

 

[Svt4Him]

If my son is biking down a hill, and I know that he will turn right because the road only turns right, my knowledge of his turn doesn't take away his will. And my knowledge is limited, but just because God knows the beginning from the end doesn't mean that we don't exercise our freewill, it simply means He already knows the choices we make.

 

[KleinerApfel]

Psalm 139
16 your eyes saw my unformed body.
All the days ordained for me
were written in your book
before one of them came to be.

Just because God saw the future and wrote it down doesn't mean He didn't let us choose.
It simply means He looked down through eternity into the portion of time where we would be born into the world and witnessed the choices we would one day make, noted them, and then created us knowing what was going to happen.

So no, you are not restricted by God forcing you to play the script - He is allowing you to make up your own, and yet He knows what you are going to say because, unrestricted by time, He's been there already and seen the show!

 

[nephilimiyr]

If my son is biking down a hill, and I know that he will turn right because the road only turns right, my knowledge of his turn doesn't take away his will. And my knowledge is limited, but just because God knows the beginning from the end doesn't mean that we don't exercise our freewill, it simply means He already knows the choices we make.

Right again. And I think it worth saying that God knows us better than we know ourselves.

 

[KingZzub]

So the road I am on only goes one way? Then why does God tell me to choose between life and death, blessings and curse?

 

[KleinerApfel]

*Ahem!*

 

[nephilimiyr]

So the road I am on only goes one way? Then why does God tell me to choose between life and death, blessings and curse?

Because it is up to you to chose. Just because God knows what you're going to chose before you chose it doesn't mean He has taken you're right to chose away.

 

[KleinerApfel]

Because it is up to you to chose. Just because God knows what you're going to chose before you chose it doesn't mean He has taken you're right to chose away.

Yup, that's what I tried to say zeeons ago with my invisible post.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Yup, that's what I tried to say zeeons ago with my invisible post.

Yep, and I repped you for that post too.

 

[KleinerApfel]

Yep, and I repped you for that post too.

Aww, thanks!

 

[KingZzub]

If someone knows what choice I am going to make, then I am not making a choice.

It is like locking someone in a bedroom, but they "choose" to stay in bed, ignorant of the fact that they had no option. That is not the nature of God. He does not exist in the future because the future does not exist. Tomorrow is still wide open.

Blessings,
Ben

 

[nephilimiyr]

Psalm 139
16 your eyes saw my unformed body.
All the days ordained for me
were written in your book
before one of them came to be.

Just because God saw the future and wrote it down doesn't mean He didn't let us choose.
It simply means He looked down through eternity into the portion of time where we would be born into the world and witnessed the choices we would one day make, noted them, and then created us knowing what was going to happen.

So no, you are not restricted by God forcing you to play the script - He is allowing you to make up your own, and yet He knows what you are going to say because, unrestricted by time, He's been there already and seen the show!

And I should've replied to your post also because the Psalm verse you posted says close to what you, Svt4Him and I have said so far.

I say close because I see this as a somewhat parallel verse to this one.
Ephesians 2:10, For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

God has ordained, prepared in advance, the good works that we will do. The problem is free will and our stubborness to do things our way on our own hopeing and believing that God is with us. I believe God has made an individual plan for each and everyone of us but the only way to fulfill that plan, our destiny, is to get in line with God's will and allow Him to lead us. Too many of us, including myself, have been wanting to create our own plan and taking God along with us, but it has to be the other way around. He is the head and we're the tail, not the other way around.

Now after saying all that, I believe God already knows whether were going to allow him to lead us or that we will resist and try and do things our way and follow our own plan.

 

[nephilimiyr]

If someone knows what choice I am going to make, then I am not making a choice.

It is like locking someone in a bedroom, but they "choose" to stay in bed, ignorant of the fact that they had no option. That is not the nature of God. He does not exist in the future because the future does not exist. Tomorrow is still wide open.

Blessings,
Ben

We're not talking about someone KingZzub, we're talking about God, and He knows all things from the end from the beginning and the beginning from the end. Your anology there does not reflect what we have been saying about God.

 

[Rising SON]

If someone knows what choice I am going to make, then I am not making a choice.

It is like locking someone in a bedroom, but they "choose" to stay in bed, ignorant of the fact that they had no option. That is not the nature of God. He does not exist in the future because the future does not exist. Tomorrow is still wide open.

Blessings,
Ben

Joseph?

 

[Rising SON]

If someone knows what choice I am going to make, then I am not making a choice.

It is like locking someone in a bedroom, but they "choose" to stay in bed, ignorant of the fact that they had no option. That is not the nature of God. He does not exist in the future because the future does not exist. Tomorrow is still wide open.

Blessings,
Ben

You may be the first mate of your ship,but God is the captain of the seas.

 

[Svt4Him]

So the road I am on only goes one way? Then why does God tell me to choose between life and death, blessings and curse?

You get that from my analogy? Wow, I guess it also means your my son then? Jacob?

And if I offered you a million dollars, tax free with no strings attached, you have a choice, and I know what you'll chose.

But enough of my analogies, please don't read too much into them. They are only examples.

 

[Elecmech]

God is an eternal being. The inner-man is an eternal being. God lives in the eternal realm and this is why mankind has to die to the things of this world, so the inner-man can return to the eternal realm [the kingdom of Heaven].
Jesus was predestined to be the physical embodiment of God "with us". To make a way for the spirits of men to return from where they originated. Zechariah ch. 21 shows that man's spirit was formed within God. Mankind's physical bodies were formed from the dust of the ground and will return to dust from which it came. The spirit of man was formed from within God and that is why He has such love for men!
Since all that is seen was made from that which is not seen, it is right and proper to say that eternity is ascended and what is seen is descended.
Since scripture can not be broken; Eccl 1:9-10 and also Eccl 3:15 has said that what has happened already will happen again. And what will happen in the future has already happened in the past!
What is unseen (which is in the eternal realm) God, has made 'all' that is seen. Including time itself. Matter cannot exist without time. There must be a complete circle. Plants thrive on a cycle known as photosynthesis. During the day a plant collects its energy from the sun [as do men from God's Light] and at night the plants take that energy and convert it to food [as men should when they lay their heads upon their pillows at night and meditate upon God's Word for the renewing of their minds [in one of the Psalms]. Plants are the bottom of the food chain and mankind is the highest. In the sea it is much the same [not sure if it is kelp or plankton on the bottom of the food source. But the factual truth is that God has already made everything for man's survival, or the biblical word to use, Provision.
Without "time", matter would not exist. And without matter, mankind would perish. It is not God's will that anyone should perish.
Our visual universe exists in 'time' [the vehicle], but only because matter is present and cannot exist without this 'time'. Matter is seen and needs 'time' to exist. God is Spirit and does not need 'time', but eternity! Time cannot contain God. So it is also right and proper to say that time is quite subject to that which is Eternal.

For the matter that KingZzub is arguing over; look in the gospel accounts just before Jesus raises Lazarus from the dead. Martha knows that Lazarus will be raised at the last resurrection. What does Jesus say? He simply tells Martha, " I AM " [the resurrection].
Look to the case of King Hezekiah. Time went back 10 degrees on the sun dial which caused Hezekiah to receive 15 more years of life! Now this should seem strange to biblical logic, which cannot be broken. For it is written that it is appointed for ONCE a man to die, then the judgment. If God added more time to what is already appointed by God then God would be a liar to break scripture. But God did not lie by going beyond Hezekiah's appointed death. God reversed the time by 10 degrees, thereby adding 15 years to Hezekiah's lifespan. For time to reverse 15 years, the whole universe had to be backed up. Again in Joshua ch. 11, Joshua commanded, " Sun, stand thou still till Israel is avenged of her enemies! " The whole universe stood still for a day and a half! Can this sort of thing happen in our time? When the Body of Christ can work together as One Body in unity [One in Christ as Christ is One with God the Father] as the saints of Acts ch. 2 did, yes it will surely happen!
The religious will never see God. But, Oh! Those that continually 'seek' His face till He moves on their behalf will surely operate in the eternal realm from where they came before the foundation of the world was formed!!

 

[Always in His Presence]

Here's my view on God and time. I don't believe there is a reference to time with God for several reasons. Being Omnipresent; everywhere at once, includes time also.

He is without beginning and end. Where man will be immortal one day, God is eternal always.

This is the easiest example I can think of. If you stop at a railroad crossing and watch the train, the most you can see is a couple cars at a time. The closer you get, the narrower your field of vision becomes and the more blurred the picture is.

If you sit on a mountain a mile away, you can see the whole train, from beginning to end.

I believe it's that way with God's view of time. He can see the beginning from the end, because He is everywhere at once. When God speaks of the future, He is describing something He is currently seeing.

Does that make sense?