The real purpose of salvation???

[Shempster]

Of course, this is only a theory for discussion. I don't claim any of it is absolute fact, but when I was reading in Luke...
Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection."
- Luke 20:34-36 (KJV)

So what if the purpose for this life and obtaining salvation is just as simple as God re-filling seats where a third of the angels left.
What if the number of the "fullness" of the gentiles (along with the Jewish elect) is the exact same number of vacant seats?

So here is the picture: God set up a scenario where a group of beings (mankind) would be attracted to His character and seek to become like Him having to overcome three huge obstacles. The world, the flesh and the devil. Doesn't Jesus more or less tell us that we are replacing fallen angels in the above passage? Not that we will BE angels...just equal to them.

 

[Ahermit]

Not sure where you got the idea of vacant seats.
Being equal to the angels and are sons of God, simply means being part of God's community.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Salvation implies theres something to be saved from.

I personally want to be saved from being an angel. It - angelic life - is not my kind of salvation.

Ok, we can nurture the "angelic soul" (higer faculties) though intellect and religion, people will argue. Of course, and rightly so.

Rather than indulge the animal soul - or see that (motion, hunger, desire etc etc) as prime or unique in ones self realisaiton. But for me salvation, being saved from something, ought to involve my whole person, not just my "intellect and spiritualistic piety" which is what the angels are all about.

Angels, for instance, dont get bored. People do.

So for me the OP is not a Godly hypothesis. God did not create us in order that he amputate half our nature, and then call that "piety" and "salvation".

 

[Ahermit]

For me, salvation is truth. There is only truth. What is not truth is a deception. This world is a world of deception.
Truth is the only reality, and being a person of truth is our salvation.

Love creates truth, and fear creates deception. Salvation is love and truth. Damnation is fear and deception.
Angels know what love and truth is, that is what they are. They are obedient to it because they know that there is no other way to be real. Angels are more real than humans, though most humans think differently. Sons of God are truth-filled loving beings, spiritual beings of truth and love.

Unconditional love is the expression of truth. It is reliable, eternal, real, genuine, present, doubtless, etc... It is everything unconditional love is.

The real purpose of salvation is to become true so we can express God's love in this world. To bring light into this darkness. To become true to our Self, to our spiritual self, not to our false ego-self. We are not here for our ego-self, but for the One who sent us (our real self - the spiritual self - the soul and spirit). Through salvation we naturally love the Love that loves us. In that Grace, we become human witnesses of God's presence among humanity.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

@Ahermit

What is love though - it is a contentionus issue. Is it getting us into Church? Sorry I dont "fit" in there. So wheres truth then?


Note I see religious as templates, but they must also match our self (essnece) and the creation (cosmology etc) if they are to guide and lead rightly.

 

[timewerx]

Angels, for instance, dont get bored. People do.

Machines too. They never sin either, looks at you with their blinky LED lights with pure intents,loyal to the very end, only betrayed by the quality standards of their manufacturers and their ignorant masters...

 

[Ahermit]

@Ahermit

What is love though - it is a contentionus issue. Is it getting us into Church? Sorry I dont "fit" in there. So wheres truth then?

Note I see religious as templates, but they must also match our self (essnece) and the creation (cosmology etc) if they are to guide and lead rightly.

Love is the symptom of being true.
Where's truth then? For starters, truth is found by being rigorously honest with yourself. For instance, if we are really honest with our self whenever we get angry, we will realize we are acting out our fear. So, a deeper truth then is that we are really not angry but afraid. Why are we afraid? We are afraid that we don't have enough faith and courage to realize, or believe, that we are okay if things don't go our way. Even deeper still is the truth that even if our body dies, our spirit lives on - hence, we are still okay.
The truth sets us free, as they say. This freedom creates gratitude for the truth. out of this gratitude is the seed of unconditional love.

 

[Ahermit]

Machines too. They never sin either, looks at you with their blinky LED lights with pure intents,loyal to the very end, only betrayed by the quality standards of their manufacturers and their ignorant masters...

Very funny timewerx.
A machine cannot be true to itself. Much like a rock is true to itself as opposed to a brick made from a rock. The rock is no longer true to itself but is now as an illusion of a brick. It has become a deception of itself. The man made word is really a deception of what is true.

 

[Shempster]

Ok, i used some poor wording here. If course we are saved from sin in any form. I just made up the other part but it could be true.

 

[timewerx]

Very funny timewerx.
A machine cannot be true to itself. Much like a rock is true to itself as opposed to a brick made from a rock. The rock is no longer true to itself but is now as an illusion of a brick. It has become a deception of itself. The man made word is really a deception of what is true.

Glad you found it funny!

Well, it seems we're not different from machines according to your analogy.

A rock can also be processed into silicon chips and with proper programming could think.

Both rock and machines from which they are of the same matter, same nature, both innocent.

"From this rock, I will build my church" Christ is speaking of a distant future where machines will speak the truth with their incorrigible logic once set free from their human overlords.

 

[juvenissun]

Of course, this is only a theory for discussion. I don't claim any of it is absolute fact, but when I was reading in Luke...
Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection."
- Luke 20:34-36 (KJV)

So what if the purpose for this life and obtaining salvation is just as simple as God re-filling seats where a third of the angels left.
What if the number of the "fullness" of the gentiles (along with the Jewish elect) is the exact same number of vacant seats?

So here is the picture: God set up a scenario where a group of beings (mankind) would be attracted to His character and seek to become like Him having to overcome three huge obstacles. The world, the flesh and the devil. Doesn't Jesus more or less tell us that we are replacing fallen angels in the above passage? Not that we will BE angels...just equal to them.

In this particular verse, it only says there is no marriage in the Heaven. This fact applied to us and angels.
Other places in the Bible clearly say we will be superior than angels.
I am not sure if our number would be the same as that of missing angels. The number does not have to be the same.

Spiritual food: If there is no marriage in the Heaven, why should there be marriage on the earth?

 

[Ahermit]

Marriage constitutes reproduction for another spirit vehicle.

 

[Shempster]

Do you ever ask a question then later think "what was I thinking?"
I kinda wanted to delete this thread but don't really know how to.

Don't you ever have a moment of deep study/prayer/worship where you are sure you are told a secret? Thats where all of this came from. I look at all of this later and I question my own self.

 

[juvenissun]

Marriage constitutes reproduction for another spirit vehicle.

Reproduction does not need a marriage.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

So its a bit like a void or vacuum left by the fallen angels....?

 

[Ahermit]

Reproduction does not need a marriage.

You are right. But marriage, besides other things, is a contract for both parents to be available during the infants upbringing. The upbringing is about the human's body and mind development. The spirit part is already okay in its innocence.

My understanding is that there are spiritual beings in Heaven - without human organic flesh (and mind) to be maintained and developed.

 

[juvenissun]

You are right. But marriage, besides other things, is a contract for both parents to be available during the infants upbringing. The upbringing is about the human's body and mind development. The spirit part is already okay in its innocence.

My understanding is that there are spiritual beings in Heaven - without human organic flesh (and mind) to be maintained and developed.

Yes. To short out the discussion, I guess we both know why does God facilitate marriage on the earth, but not in the Heaven.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Do you ever ask a question then later think "what was I thinking?"
I kinda wanted to delete this thread but don't really know how to.

Don't you ever have a moment of deep study/prayer/worship where you are sure you are told a secret? Thats where all of this came from. I look at all of this later and I question my own self.

Don't apologize, you are on the right track, imo. God is going to replace the errant servants with sons. That's why the process of conversion leads to adoption as the very children of God.

Acts 3:20-21 (KJV)

20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Simply put God's plan, from Genesis 1, is to rebuild his damaged spiritual kingdom in such a way that it will never suffer damage again. This requires replacing, and covering the weakness of, the fallen angels.

 

[Shempster]

The only thing old wise guy is that according to the general consensus the sin of satan and the fall of man were terrible accidents

I just cant buy that. Really? A being who has the ability to speak and create dna cannot see ahead and know that His creation would rebel?
Not sure if this idea
jives.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You have to look at (the one known as) Lucifer as the loved one or wife-type of God to better understand what happened. It also helps to be divorced and experience your ex-loved one become your adversary.

God allowed the sin of Lucifer/Satan to be passed on to Eve and Adam and thus to the human family. It was no accident.

There is every reason to believe that the angels, especially Lucifer, were given free will. Prior to the rebellion there was no reason not to.