The real meaning of futurism

Interplanner · May 4, 2014

BW says Heb 9:11 is not already here. Because the person who read this passage and though it was already here has been found to incessantly rip passages apart from what they "actually" mean, which is that they mean in BW futurism.

You have to read everything in BW futurism to "actually" know what they mean, which he will explain to those interested.

Dunbar · May 4, 2014

It is impossible to read the scriptures and not see that many prophecies have not been fulfilled yet. You have no viable interpretations for the two witnesses, the seven trumpets, the mark of the beast or the seven last plagues. Futurism is not evil. The word prophecy means to 'foretell the future'.

Douggg · May 4, 2014

Interplanner said:
BW says Heb 9:11 is not already here. Because the person who read this passage and though it was already here has been found to incessantly rip passages apart from what they "actually" mean, which is that they mean BW futurism.

You have to read everything in BW futurism to "actually" know what they mean, which he will explain to those interested.

I bet if I were to look up futurism on line - I wouldn't even find Biblewriter's name mentioned anywhere in the definition. This is crazy...

. Of course, I have been away from the board for a few days, and see what happens?

Interplanner · May 4, 2014

Dunbar,
other than the day of judgement for the whole earth, I don't know what would need to be fulfilled. The ordinary-language passages of the NT (not the Rev) show nothing Judaic: Rom 3, 8, I Cor 15, Heb 9, 2 Pet 3. Mt24B (after v 29 when its setting turns global) does not.

You have assumed that the Rev is a prediction of the future instead of a way of seeing the awful events in Judea in the generation after Christ. That needs to be addressed.

Interplanner · May 4, 2014

Doug,
he's a published author and prize winner on futurism and D'ism and after I quoted Heb 9 saying the 'good things are already here' he said every use of every passage by me is chaos.

Old Timer · May 4, 2014

It's blatantly obvious that most here can't see that Day approaching..

Biblewriter · May 4, 2014

Interplanner said:
BW says Heb 9:11 is not already here. Because the person who read this passage and though it was already here has been found to incessantly rip passages apart from what they "actually" mean, which is that they mean in BW futurism.

You have to read everything in BW futurism to "actually" know what they mean, which he will explain to those interested.

Where did you even get the slightest idea that I, or anyone else, denies that Hebrews 9:11 has already taken place?

You can search through all my writings, both in this forum and anywhere else. But you will never find such a statement anywhere, even once.

And you cannot find even one place where I have ever, even once, ripped any passage of scripture apart from what it actually means. I leave that to people that want to deny what the scriptures say.

What I, and other "futurists," actually do, which you so despise, is to reject your continual interpreting of some passages of scripture to mean what they never actually say, as an excuse to deny that a great many more passages of scripture mean what they actually say.

Biblewriter · May 4, 2014

Interplanner said:
Doug,
he's a published author and prize winner on futurism and D'ism and after I quoted Heb 9 saying the 'good things are already here' he said every use of every passage by me is chaos.

Cite where I ever said any such thing. If I actually did, I will apologize.

What I did say, and do say, is that you continually interpret some passages to mean things they never actually say, and then use that as an excuse to deny that many more passages of scripture mean what they actually say.

Old Timer · May 4, 2014

Did you expect the truth from a thread like this?

Biblewriter · May 4, 2014

Old Timer said:
Did you expect the truth from a thread like this?

Of course not. These people invade the eschatology forums for the sole purpose of denying that there is any such thing as eschatology.

Old Timer · May 4, 2014

Amen BW..

I used to try and reason with this and after a few years it became obvious that there was no possibility of that at all.

Interplanner · May 4, 2014

The last things (eschatology) is what it was to the apostles. Ie, how was the destruction of the temple one of the last things of "this" age. That is how to read the NT--what it meant originally, not what it means to BW.

Interplanner · May 4, 2014

btw, that Heb 9:11 thing is its own thread: "This is where BW did not allow for the present tense."

Old Timer · May 4, 2014

I think every babe in Christ understands and knows the real meaning of preterism..

I was exposed to it as a babe in Christ many years ago and knew exactly what it was then.

Lies from the father of them all.. Who has no truth in him.

This is like bible 101 class..

Interplanner · May 4, 2014

BW didn't use the categories of Judaism there, until he wanted to refuse that Heb 9:11 was already here. Hebrews is the strongest possible refutation of 2P2P, which generates futurism. It was and is taught in all the D'ism I'm familiar with.

daq · May 4, 2014

Biblewriter said:
What I, and other "futurists," actually do, which you so despise, is to reject your continual interpreting of some passages of scripture to mean what they never actually say, as an excuse to deny that a great many more passages of scripture mean what they actually say.

You never gave a true answer for what follows below except to say that I also had "wrested" the Scripture, (a lame excuse and a falsehood). It is you who wrests and likewise ignores critical information so as to concoct and insert your own fanciful dream fulfillments into the texts of the prophets of old.

Douggg said:
I bet if I were to look up futurism on line - I wouldn't even find Biblewriter's name mentioned anywhere in the definition. This is crazy.... Of course, I have been away from the board for a few days, and see what happens?

So now that you are back how about an answer to the following?

daq said:
That passage clearly speaks of the "feet" of the Father YHWH who is non-corporeal Spirit:

Zechariah 14:3-4 KJV
3. Then shall the Lord [YHWH] go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

In addition you, like most, have neglected what in fact the same OT authors have already stated concerning the feet of YHWH in their own metaphorical prophetic utterances and writings:

Nahum 1:1-3 KJV
1. The burden of Nineveh. The book of the vision of Nahum the Elkoshite.
2. God is jealous, and the Lord [YHWH] revengeth; the Lord [YHWH] revengeth, and is furious; the Lord [YHWH] will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.
3. The Lord [YHWH] is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the Lord [YHWH] hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.

THE CLOUDS ARE THE DUST OF THE "FEET" OF YHWH:

Matthew 17:4-5 KJV
4. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
5. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Luke 9:27-35 KJV
27. But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
28. And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.
29. And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.
30. And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
31. Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
32. But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.
33. And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.
34. While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.
35. And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

And if one is so bold as to ignore this information we have the same testimony from Peter concerning this event which flies in the face of those who disbelieve the record having been written in the Gospel accounts:

2 Peter 1:16-21 KJV
16. For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
17. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
19. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20. Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

daq said:
What about the Nahum 1:3 SCRIPTURE that was posted above which clearly states that the clouds are the dust of the feet of YHWH? What about the clear evidence that the Prophet Zechariah references the Prophet Nahum when he states that the FEET OF YHWH shall stand or station upon the Holy Mount? What about the fact that the CLOUD overshadowed and even "enveloped" the disciples when they were with Yeshua, Moses, and Elijah, at the transfiguration event, (Luke version) when the Father spoke from the effervescent CLOUD? What about the confirmation of these facts from the Second Epistle of Peter at a later date showing that he clearly attributes these events to PROPHECY from the OT? Does anyone here know of any other place where this prophecy can be found apart from Zechariah 14:3-4? It is right there in black and white staring us all in the face but who will indeed believe it?

Nahum 1:3 says of the Father that the clouds are the dust of his feet. This is the same Father YHWH of whom Zechariah 14:2-3 speaks. What say you Douggg since Biblewriter apparently has no legitimate reply except to try to assassinate the character of the messenger?

.

Old Timer · May 4, 2014

Think of how pathetic it actually is for preterists to come in here and think that they're deceiving others while they're in fact deceived themselves..

I mean the intentional ones of course..

There's still hope for the ones who are deceived.

Interplanner · May 4, 2014

Daq did very well on Ps 110, on how it is used throughout the Bible. You can't be so bad if you're getting that right.

daq · May 4, 2014

Old Timer said:
Think of how pathetic it actually is for preterists to come in here and think that they're deceiving others while they're in fact deceived themselves..

I mean the intentional ones of course..

There's still hope for the ones who are deceived.

Here is another Tanak passage concerning "feet" just for you Old Timer:

Ezekiel 43:4-7 KJV
4. And the glory of the Lord [YHWH] came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.
5. So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the Lord [YHWH] filled the house.
6. And I heard him speaking unto me out of the house; and the man stood by me.
7. And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.

If he says that this Ezekiel Temple is the place of the souls of his feet FOREVER then how say you and those of your disposition that this is a temporary one-thousand year physical millennial Temple building made of wood, stone, iron, brass, silver, and gold? In addition we are now almost two thousand years from the Advent of Messiah. This Ezekiel Temple is the Body of Yeshua, and therefore completely supernal, and this is indeed why they did not build it to begin with when they began to build the second Temple even though they already had the writings of Ezekiel, (in fact the Scroll of Ezekiel HaNavi almost did not make it into the "canon" because of what we now consider chapters 40-48 and the "Ezekiel Temple"). Can it be that the Father would bring about such a wonderful thing as the Body of Messiah, which will last for all eternity, and not first tell it to his servants the prophets?

Amos 3:7-8 KJV
7. Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
8. The lion hath roared, who will not fear? the Lord God hath spoken, who can but prophesy?

Hebrews 10:5-7 KJV
5. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared [GSN#2675 katartizo] me:
6. In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me), to do thy will, O God.

Original Strong's Ref. #2675
Romanized katartizo
Pronounced kat-ar-tid'-zo
from GSN2596 and a derivative of GSN0739; to complete thoroughly, i.e. repair (literally or figuratively) or adjust:
KJV--fit, frame, mend, (make) perfect(-ly join together), prepare, restore.

John 2:19-21 KJV
19. Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21. But he spake of the temple of his body.

"Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not; but a body-temple hast thou fitted-framed me."

Old Timer · May 4, 2014

daq said:
Here is another Tanak passage concerning "feet" just for you Old Timer:

Ezekiel 43:4-7 KJV
4. And the glory of the Lord [YHWH] came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.
5. So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the Lord [YHWH] filled the house.
6. And I heard him speaking unto me out of the house; and the man stood by me.
7. And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.

If he says that this Ezekiel Temple is the place of the souls of his feet FOREVER then how say you and those of your disposition that this is a temporary one-thousand year physical millennial Temple building made of wood, stone, iron, brass, silver, and gold? In addition we are now almost two thousand years from the Advent of Messiah. This Ezekiel Temple is the Body of Yeshua, and therefore completely supernal, and this is indeed why they did not build it to begin with when they began to build the second Temple even though they already had the writings of Ezekiel, (in fact the Scroll of Ezekiel HaNavi almost did not make it into the "canon" because of what we now consider chapters 40-48 and the "Ezekiel Temple"). Can it be that the Father would bring about such a wonderful thing as the Body of Messiah, which will last for all eternity, and not first tell it to his servants the prophets?

Amos 3:7-8 KJV
7. Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
8. The lion hath roared, who will not fear? the Lord God hath spoken, who can but prophesy?

Hebrews 10:5-7 KJV
5. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared [GSN#2675 katartizo] me:
6. In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me), to do thy will, O God.

Original Strong's Ref. #2675
Romanized katartizo
Pronounced kat-ar-tid'-zo
from GSN2596 and a derivative of GSN0739; to complete thoroughly, i.e. repair (literally or figuratively) or adjust:
KJV--fit, frame, mend, (make) perfect(-ly join together), prepare, restore.

John 2:19-21 KJV
19. Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21. But he spake of the temple of his body.

"Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not; but a body-temple hast thou fitted-framed me."

Do you actually think that your many words here shall result in any Spirit filled believer in Christ to believe you rather than the living and powerful word of God which speaks of the Day of The Lord while even warning us against those like you who would say it is past?

As is said, you're the one who is deceived although of course you can't fathom that.

Are you an intentional deceiver or just deceived yourself?

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