The rats are jumping off a sinking ship

[wing2000]

I have long said that the House should have voted to impeach and the Senate should have voted to convict. Honestly Mike Pence should have removed him via the 25th amendment after January 6th. Then he would not be eligible to run a 2nd time and we conservative Republicans could choose between the several good candidates running now. It looks like Trump will be the nominee barring something happening, as he is so ahead
in the polls, and he has good people convinced that all these indictments are nothing but a political witch hunt. I say this as someone who did vote for him in 2020.

The House did vote to impeach. Sadly, only 7 Repbulican Senators voted to convict (referring to the 2nd impeachment. The rest betrayed their constitutional duty to the country.

 

[Pommer]

After reading part of this thread I'm amazed at the group think. When in our history have there ever been political prosecutions like Trumps? I'm a big history buff and I can't remember any except after the civil war of Abraham Lincoln's vice president who took over after Lincoln was assassinated. I'm no fan of Trump's as I consider him dishonest, but the political skullduggery in his prosecution is insane. And who considers Democrats as lily white themselves? All politicians are dishonest and pander to the lowest possible denominator.

These aren’t “political persecutions”, but the normal functioning of Government by alleging that Mister Trump has committed crimes and will put him on trial for those alleged crimes.
This is all part of the “normal=corruption” that we have been seeing in the Right wing’s press for the past few years.
It doesn’t “look bad“ because the government is trying to protect itself from alleged criminal activity, unless one assumes that the only possible reason Mister Trump has been indicted is to keep him away from the levers of power.

 

[stevil]

After reading part of this thread I'm amazed at the group think. When in our history have there ever been political prosecutions like Trumps? I'm a big history buff and I can't remember any except after the civil war of Abraham Lincoln's vice president who took over after Lincoln was assassinated. I'm no fan of Trump's as I consider him dishonest, but the political skullduggery in his prosecution is insane. And who considers Democrats as lily white themselves? All politicians are dishonest and pander to the lowest possible denominator.

The problem is this "both sides" argument.
Some people use it to justify a conspiracy theory that the legal system is going after D Trump because of a Democrat run Deep State.

They don't consider that these unprecedented charges are because there has been an unprecedented amount and level of crimes committed by the ex president and those around him.

Let's not forget, the Special Council investigation into Russian collusion, was instigated and overseen by a Republican. The whistleblowers and witnesses were Republican. For the Ukraine phone call, the whistleblowers and those testifying in the hearing were Republican.

If you are trying to compare the Dems to D Trump and his Republican accomplices, I guess you could bring up that Hilary used a private email server, that Biden also had some confidential documents in his possession, that Obama wore a tan suit that one time. But this level of skullduggery doesn't really compare to the insurrection, the alternate electors scheme, the extortion of Ukraine to pretend their is an investigation into Biden, the lying and hiding classified documents from the DOJ, ...

 

[Gary K]

There's a clue there if you're looking for an answer.

Such as?

 

[Gary K]

These aren’t “political persecutions”, but the normal functioning of Government by alleging that Mister Trump has committed crimes and will put him on trial for those alleged crimes.
This is all part of the “normal=corruption” that we have been seeing in the Right wing’s press for the past few years.
It doesn’t “look bad“ because the government is trying to protect itself from alleged criminal activity, unless one assumes that the only possible reason Mister Trump has been indicted is to keep him away from the levers of power.

By who? His political opponents. That makes it a political prosecution. Would you think if Republicans sued Biden to keep him away from the reigns of power it would be a political prosecution?

What do you think of RFK being denies secret service protection political? I so, why?

 

[Gary K]

The problem is this "both sides" argument.
Some people use it to justify a conspiracy theory that the legal system is going after D Trump because of a Democrat run Deep State.

They don't consider that these unprecedented charges are because there has been an unprecedented amount and level of crimes committed by the ex president and those around him.

Let's not forget, the Special Council investigation into Russian collusion, was instigated and overseen by a Republican. The whistleblowers and witnesses were Republican. For the Ukraine phone call, the whistleblowers and those testifying in the hearing were Republican.

If you are trying to compare the Dems to D Trump and his Republican accomplices, I guess you could bring up that Hilary used a private email server, that Biden also had some confidential documents in his possession, that Obama wore a tan suit that one time. But this level of skullduggery doesn't really compare to the insurrection, the alternate electors scheme, the extortion of Ukraine to pretend their is an investigation into Biden, the lying and hiding classified documents from the DOJ, ...

Hillary not only used a private server she deleted all evidence of her crime. How about Hunter Biden's laptop? Do you think that was Russian disinformation? What about Joe having confidential documents in his garage? Trump was, or will be, tried for that. That isn't political?

How about the following link?

Hunter Biden's hard drive shows he, his firm earned about $11 million from 2013 to 2018

The hard drive and documents from Senate Republicans indicate few of Biden’s deals ever came to fruition and shed light on how fast he was spending his money.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[stevil]

Hillary not only used a private server she deleted all evidence of her crime.

She had private emails deleted yes. I don't know if that was a crime.

How about Hunter Biden's laptop?

We are talking about politicians here, not just any USA citizen.

What about Joe having confidential documents in his garage?

I mentioned that

Trump was, or will be, tried for that. That isn't political?

D Trump's document issue is made much, much worse by his refusal to return the documents and his lying about them and his efforts to move them and hide them.
Biden had his lawyers return his, even before the government knew he had them.

 

[Pommer]

By who? His political opponents. That makes it a political prosecution. Would you think if Republicans sued Biden to keep him away from the reigns of power it would be a political prosecution?

What do you think of RFK being denies secret service protection political? I so, why?

By whom?
By the Department of Justice that President Trump used to run when he was the 45th President of the United States.

If you really think think that the DOJ is a partisan operation protecting Biden and the Democrats then you’re correct, because if it were otherwise, you’d be wrong, (and we all know that can‘t be).

 

[Pommer]

Hillary not only used a private server she deleted all evidence of her crime. How about Hunter Biden's laptop? Do you think that was Russian disinformation? What about Joe having confidential documents in his garage? Trump was, or will be, tried for that. That isn't political?

How about the following link?

Hunter Biden's hard drive shows he, his firm earned about $11 million from 2013 to 2018

The hard drive and documents from Senate Republicans indicate few of Biden’s deals ever came to fruition and shed light on how fast he was spending his money.

www.nbcnews.com

A year and a half old link?
Uh-oh!

 

[Bradskii]

Such as?

What? I literally quoted you saying it...

 

[Bradskii]

What about Joe having confidential documents in his garage? Trump was, or will be, tried for that. That isn't political?

If you think Trump is simply being charged with having documents in his bathroom then you clearly don't know enough about the matter to hold a serious conversation about it.

 

[stevil]

By who? His political opponents. That makes it a political prosecution. Would you think if Republicans sued Biden to keep him away from the reigns of power it would be a political prosecution?

What do you think of RFK being denies secret service protection political? I so, why?

If Biden attempted an insurrection or did an alternate elector's scheme, I'd bet most Democrat supporters would be all for an investigation and trial into his crimes. Hillary lost the 2016 election in part because many voters abandoned her when they heard there was an FBI investigation into her use of a personal email server.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

After reading part of this thread I'm amazed at the group think. When in our history have there ever been political prosecutions like Trumps? I'm a big history buff and I can't remember any except after the civil war of Abraham Lincoln's vice president who took over after Lincoln was assassinated. I'm no fan of Trump's as I consider him dishonest, but the political skullduggery in his prosecution is insane. And who considers Democrats as lily white themselves? All politicians are dishonest and pander to the lowest possible denominator.

So all politicians are "dishonest and pander to the lowest possible denominator" and it is political prosecution to hold Trump accountable.

So we should all just accept all the dishonesty, no matter how bad and blatant as the American way?

I believe we should apply the rule of law equally no matter who is prosecuted.

 

[rambot]

By who? His political opponents. That makes it a political prosecution. Would you think if Republicans sued Biden to keep him away from the reigns of power it would be a political prosecution?

It's not political persecution when there is mountains of evidence to convict.

And if they had an actual basis that the THIRD SEPERATE branch of government determined was a VALID set of evidence to pursue him, I don't know a single Democrat who wouldn't be fine with Biden being charged.

Of course, with Trump, his supporters buy his manipulative propaganda and believe that he committed no crimes despite the fact that this disagrees with reality and the judgement of the judicial branch of government. So again, Trump is trying to destroy the credibility of a whole branch of government and his supporters are right behind him....because they believe him instead of evidence.

 

[stevil]

It's not political persecution when there is mountains of evidence to convict.

Especially when accomplices are pleading guilty and acknowledging their plea is because the factual evidence supports their guilt.

 

[Gary K]

She had private emails deleted yes. I don't know if that was a crime.


We are talking about politicians here, not just any USA citizen.

I mentioned that

D Trump's document issue is made much, much worse by his refusal to return the documents and his lying about them and his efforts to move them and hide them.
Biden had his lawyers return his, even before the government knew he had them.

Destruction of evidence in a criminal prosecution? That's most definitely a crime. It's a felony.

So politicians and the children of politicians are above the law?

No president, other than Trump, has ever been charged with keeping documents when they leave office. That's why his prosecution is a purely political prosecution. I don't know how old you are but all of this reminds me of the show trials in the old Soviet Union. What Trumps lawyers have been put through is exactly like that and blatantly unconstitutional as every defendant has a right to a lawyer. No lawyer has ever been sued for defending even the most heinous criminals. Jeffrey Dahmer's lawyers weren't sued for defending him and he was as sick in the head as they get.

I went to high school with a guy who later became a serial murderer of prostitutes in Portland, Oregon and his lawyers weren't sued either. Your constitutional rights are being destroyed right in front of your eyes and you're cheering it on. We are well on our way to a dictatorship.

 

[RDKirk]

No president, other than Trump, has ever been charged with keeping documents when they leave office.

No other president tried to keep them when told to return them.

 

[rambot]

Destruction of evidence in a criminal prosecution? That's most definitely a crime. It's a felony.

So politicians and the children of politicians are above the law?

No president, other than Trump, has ever been charged with keeping documents when they leave office. That's why his prosecution is a purely political prosecution. I don't know how old you are but all of this reminds me of the show trials in the old Soviet Union. What Trumps lawyers have been put through is exactly like that and blatantly unconstitutional as every defendant has a right to a lawyer. No lawyer has ever been sued for defending even the most heinous criminals. Jeffrey Dahmer's lawyers weren't sued for defending him and he was as sick in the head as they get.

I went to high school with a guy who later became a serial murderer of prostitutes in Portland, Oregon and his lawyers weren't sued either. Your constitutional rights are being destroyed right in front of your eyes and you're cheering it on. We are well on our way to a dictatorship.

All those words or....

He's guilty.

 

[Gary K]

Especially when accomplices are pleading guilty and acknowledging their plea is because the factual evidence supports their guilt.

So you don't care that we are headed directly onto a dictatorship as your constitutional rights are being destroyed right in front of your eyes? If this can be done to an ex president how easily could it be done to you on trumped up charges? You say that could never happen? Don't be too sure about that. All you have to do is anger someone with more political pull than you have and more money. That is all it would take.

Our country is neck deep in corruption and as a result I no longer trust any politician. We are being sold out all the way around.

 

[Gary K]

All those words or....

He's guilty.

Yeah, I guess I'm not too surprised with as far left as you are politically. You've most likely been taught Marxist ideology in school for most of your educational years. It's too bad too as I've always loved my country. Our nation is being torn apart from the inside out and I'm glad I won't live to see it completely destroyed as I have cancer and don't expect to live that long.