The Rapture

[Andyman_1970]

Not to debate or belittle your view, but why not? Was there something in Scripture you read either differently or didn't find? Jsut curious!

I won't debate my position but I will share a few of the reasons why I don't believe in the rapture.

First, I find no substantation in either the Hebrew Scriptures, the Apocrapha, or the Oral Torah for such an event. Second, the Jewish style of writing employs alot of symbols, imagery, metaphors to descripe cosmic events that are not literal pictures of what will happen. Third, I believe, with the exception of Luke (a converted Gentile) all the authors of the Scripture were thoroughly Jewish, and as such that needs to be applied to our understanding of the Scripture. Fourth, I find the idea that through our knowledge of Christ we get to escape the earth and spend eternity in Heaven highly Gnostic. Fifth, (not related directly to the rapture but mentioned in this thread), I can find no evidence in 1st century Judism that the expected God to end the space time universe as we know it when the "day of the LORD" comes to pass.

With all that said, I do affirm the ressurection of the dead on the "Day of the LORD" and that when the Messiah returns earth will be reconciled into the creation God orginally created it to be and intended it to be the first time and those who are in the Messiah will dwell with Him for eternity on said reconciled creation.

 

[DiscipleOfIAm]

I won't debate my position but I will share a few of the reasons why I don't believe in the rapture.

First, I find no substantation in either the Hebrew Scriptures, the Apocrapha, or the Oral Torah for such an event. Second, the Jewish style of writing employs alot of symbols, imagery, metaphors to descripe cosmic events that are not literal pictures of what will happen. Third, I believe, with the exception of Luke (a converted Gentile) all the authors of the Scripture were thoroughly Jewish, and as such that needs to be applied to our understanding of the Scripture. Fourth, I find the idea that through our knowledge of Christ we get to escape the earth and spend eternity in Heaven highly Gnostic. Fifth, (not related directly to the rapture but mentioned in this thread), I can find no evidence in 1st century Judism that the expected God to end the space time universe as we know it when the "day of the LORD" comes to pass.

With all that said, I do affirm the ressurection of the dead on the "Day of the LORD" and that when the Messiah returns earth will be reconciled into the creation God orginally created it to be and intended it to be the first time and those who are in the Messiah will dwell with Him for eternity on said reconciled creation.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Andyman_1970 again.

 

[mlqurgw]

I don't believe there is such a thing as the Rapture because I find no basis in the Scriptures for a 2 part second coming of Christ. We will be caught up to meet Him in the air and come with Him as He is coming but that is not a Rapture. The word only came to be used as Dispensational theology became more widespread.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

I don't believe there is such a thing as the Rapture because I find no basis in the Scriptures for a 2 part second coming of Christ. We will be caught up to meet Him in the air and come with Him as He is coming but that is not a Rapture. The word only came to be used as Dispensational theology became more widespread.

To my recollection no one ever stated, or intimated, anything about a two part second coming of Jesus.

A two part resurrection and a one part rapture was referenced.

As to the two part resurrection, there are the martyrs that are resurrected (if, indeed, not already resurrected and present with the Lord) and, a thousand years later, those that are still asleep.

As to the rapture that can only refer to those that are still alive at the end of this creation.

I would be inclined to agree with you, being "caught up" was, later, replaced by the word "rapture". Either way, pointless semantics as they both refer to the same event.

 

[mont974x4]

I don't believe there is such a thing as the Rapture because I find no basis in the Scriptures for a 2 part second coming of Christ. We will be caught up to meet Him in the air and come with Him as He is coming but that is not a Rapture. The word only came to be used as Dispensational theology became more widespread.

I think your just arguing semantics. Rapture just being a word used to label when the dead will rise and we will meet him.

While the word itself isn;t found in the Bible, the principle idea is...similar to the Trinity.

 

[mlqurgw]

I think your just arguing semantics. Rapture just being a word used to label when the dead will rise and we will meet him.

While the word itself isn;t found in the Bible, the principle idea is...similar to the Trinity.

All I was doing was answering the OP. He asked us to vote and give a reason for our vote.
As far as the semantics go I do believe that "The Rapture" is an intregal part of Dispensational Pre-Millenial Eschatology. Therefore it isn't semantics. Much of their system depends on it.

 

[mont974x4]

lol ok

 

[greeker57married]

This is my own personal opinion, for what it is worth.

We can read in Revelation Chapter 7, verses 9 to 14, to see what I believe is the end result of the Rapture of believing Christians.



Notice, in v.14, that the Angel tells John these individuals "are they which came out of great tribulation." They did not go through great tribulation, but instead came out of it. That is why I believe this is the "Rapture" of believers in Jesus. And, this is why I am a pre-tribulation kind of guy.

Matthan

They which come out of the great tribulation (hoi erchomenoi ek tēs thlipseōs tēs megalēs). Present middle participle with the idea of continued repetition. "The martyrs are still arriving from the scene of the great tribulation" (Charles). Apparently some great crisis is contemplated (Mat_13:19.; Mat_24:21; Mar_13:10), though the whole series may be in mind and so may anticipate final judgment. (A.T. Robertson)

In order to to understand the time frame of The book of Revelation you need to look at Revelation 1:19.

Rev 1:19 Write therefore the things which thou sawest, and the things which are, and the things which shall come to pass hereafter

(the things which thou sawest) Past tense Rev. chapters 1, (the things which are) present tense chapters 2-3, (The things which shall come to past hereafter) future tense, chapters 4-22.

The rapture takes place probably atthe beginning of chapture 4:1, μετα ταυτα "After these things" the events of chapters 2-3. Which is the Church age. Rev. 7:14 is during the tribulation and the phrase, "They which came out" is present middle which means "were repeatedly coming out."

God Bless
greeker

 

[Joykins]

I believe in the rapture in the sense that it will happen to those who are still living at the time of the resurrection of the dead and the triumphant return of Christ. The resurrection will begin and then the living will be caught up in the event.

 

[jsimms615]

Alrighty then! I posted a question about the coC beliefs of the Rapture. It has sparked me to inquire your beliefs of the Rapture.

After taking the poll, comment on your beliefs. Why do you believe this? Because someone always told you that or do you have Scriptural referrence?

Anyone care to summize their opinion on the Rapture? What is the history behind it?

Should make for an interesting and educational thread!

God Bless

There are a few other options on this poll that aren't there. Maybe there should be an other category. Some thing the rapture is in the middle of the tribulation period and some don't believe in a literal tribulation period at all.

 

[DiscipleOfIAm]

There are a few other options on this poll that aren't there. Maybe there should be an other category. Some thing the rapture is in the middle of the tribulation period and some don't believe in a literal tribulation period at all.

This was addressed on Page 1. Use the write in option. Sorry.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Some think the rapture is in the middle of the tribulation period and some don't believe in a literal tribulation period at all.

Or that the tribulation was a historical event in the 1st century.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

The Tribulation is/will be necessary to bring the Jews back to God and The Messiah.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

Rapture just being a word used to label when the dead will rise and we will meet him..

Rapture is for the living.

Resurrection is for those ("dead") sleeping in Christ.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

I

1. the rapture...it will happen to those who are still living
2. at the time of the resurrection of the dead
3. and the triumphant return of Christ.

1. The resurrection will begin
2. and then the living will be caught up in the event.

Agreed. The rapture and the resurrection are not synonymous terms, one for the "then" living, the other for the sleeping (dead) in Christ.