The Rapture theory is true?

[SeventyOne]

Wow. I'm literally telling you that I believe exactly what the scripture says, and you're accusing me of "redefining the words to fit my theology"? I'm not the one requiring more words to be added to the end of "the last day". I've always maintained the last day refers to the last day. Do not accuse me of changing scripture.

I never accused you of changing it, just not understanding it. Again, familiarize yourself with the appointed times a bit and you'll have a better understanding of the various phrases.

 

[Timtofly]

The fact that you refer to "the impossibility of my dilemma" tells me that you don't understand what I'm saying at all. Not sure why you're making this so complicated.

All those different last days you're talking about are last days of something. I'm talking about simply the very last day. Revelation 21 and 22 both tell us that there will be no more sun and no more night. That means we won't always have days, and so there is a last day. Even Daniel 12 talks about "the end of days" so we know there will be an end to our system of time, and so when Jesus talks about "the last day", he's literally talking about the last day.

I explained the last day to you. Do I know more about it than you do as you point out nothing after this last day? There is nothing to this reality after the last day. This reality is annihilated. Finished. Over, as in no more, yes in this reality that is the last day.

The problem is you interpret every single use of the last day as the absolute last day. If you did not, you would give the one or two verses showing your last day and then have a way to defend your point. It is true; I cannot read your mind, only your post in this thread.

 

[Freedm]

I explained the last day to you. Do I know more about it than you do as you point out nothing after this last day? There is nothing to this reality after the last day. This reality is annihilated. Finished. Over, as in no more, yes in this reality that is the last day.

The problem is you interpret every single use of the last day as the absolute last day. If you did not, you would give the one or two verses showing your last day and then have a way to defend your point. It is true; I cannot read your mind, only your post in this thread.

Do I really need to repost the verses?

John 6:39
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

John 6:40
For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Martha also mentioned it in John chapter 11.

John 11:24
Martha answered, "I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

Even Daniel was told that he would rise at the end of days.

Daniel 12:13
As for you, go your way until the end. You will rest, then at the end of days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.

Look at Daniel 12:13. The angel is telling Daniel that there will be an end of days and that this is the time he will be resurrected. How can that mean anything other than literally the end of days?

Despite my position being in harmony with other scriptures such as Acts 3:21, even these six verses alone should be enough to clearly prove the point to even the newest student of scripture. In fact, despite the unwarranted push for yet further "proof" to justify my position, I don't need to prove my point to anybody because the Bible proves itself, as you can see if you read the verses I posted here.

On the contrary, if anybody does not believe the resurrection happens at the end of days, as the Angel Gabriel clearly stated, then it is incumbent on them to prove their point, and not merely by posting other scriptures that can be interpreted to mean something different, while ignoring these examples, but to directly address Daniel 12:13 and explain how I misunderstand it, as well as the other five passages of scripture that line up exactly with my position.

So, if anybody can explain these six verses in a convincing manner to refer to something other than the last day, now is your chance.

 

[Freedm]

I never accused you of changing it, just not understanding it. Again, familiarize yourself with the appointed times a bit and you'll have a better understanding of the various phrases.

Less clear scripture must always be read in light of more clear scripture. So rather than accusing me of not understanding basic English, perhaps you need to begin by familiarizing yourself with basic English and not try to over complicate the scriptures because you don't like the way it sounds after a first reading.

 

[SeventyOne]

Less clear scripture must always be read in light of more clear scripture. So rather than accusing me of not understanding basic English, perhaps you need to begin by familiarizing yourself with basic English and not try to over complicate the scriptures because you don't like the way it sounds after a first reading.

Ok. I've had enough of your insults. I was just trying to let you know that the 'last day' to the Jews doesn't mean what you insist it must mean from your own imagination. You enjoy your error. Fine. Live in error. Bye.

 

[Timtofly]

Do I really need to repost the verses?

John 6:39
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

John 6:40
For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Martha also mentioned it in John chapter 11.

John 11:24
Martha answered, "I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

Even Daniel was told that he would rise at the end of days.

Daniel 12:13
As for you, go your way until the end. You will rest, then at the end of days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.

Look at Daniel 12:13. The angel is telling Daniel that there will be an end of days and that this is the time he will be resurrected. How can that mean anything other than literally the end of days?

Despite my position being in harmony with other scriptures such as Acts 3:21, even these six verses alone should be enough to clearly prove the point to even the newest student of scripture. In fact, despite the unwarranted push for yet further "proof" to justify my position, I don't need to prove my point to anybody because the Bible proves itself, as you can see if you read the verses I posted here.

On the contrary, if anybody does not believe the resurrection happens at the end of days, as the Angel Gabriel clearly stated, then it is incumbent on them to prove their point, and not merely by posting other scriptures that can be interpreted to mean something different, while ignoring these examples, but to directly address Daniel 12:13 and explain how I misunderstand it, as well as the other five passages of scripture that line up exactly with my position.

So, if anybody can explain these six verses in a convincing manner to refer to something other than the last day, now is your chance.

All these verses apply to the Cross which was still the future last day, when Jesus said those words. That last day has come and gone. It was the last day of the Law. It was the last day of the OT. His body on the Cross was the NT. Some call the Testament the Covenant. The Lord's Supper was the symbolism of the death on the Cross.

 

[Freedm]

Ok. I've had enough of your insults. I was just trying to let you know that the 'last day' to the Jews doesn't mean what you insist it must mean from your own imagination. You enjoy your error. Fine. Live in error. Bye.

My apologies if I came across as insulting. I didn't mean to insult, just to say it as I see it. Plain English tells us that Jesus will come for us on the last day. I don't see how literally believing what it says, is to "live in error".

 

[Freedm]

All these verses apply to the Cross which was still the future last day, when Jesus said those words. That last day has come and gone. It was the last day of the Law. It was the last day of the OT. His body on the Cross was the NT. Some call the Testament the Covenant. The Lord's Supper was the symbolism of the death on the Cross.

You're certainly entitled to your own interpretation, but can you support your interpretation with scripture?

 

[Timtofly]

You're certainly entitled to your own interpretation, but can you support your interpretation with scripture?

Yes the very same verses you posted. That is what I pointed out from them.

 

[Freedm]

Yes the very same verses you posted. That is what I pointed out from them.

But none of those verses say "the last day of the cross" or "the last day of the age", so they don't really support your position at all. They support mine. You literally have to use your imagination to think those verses support your position.

 

[Timtofly]

But none of those verses say "the last day of the cross" or "the last day of the age", so they don't really support your position at all. They support mine. You literally have to use your imagination to think those verses support your position.

It seems common sense that if Jesus spoke them it was before he died on the Cross. Perhaps your own senses interpret that differently?

When Jesus was baptized that was the Beginning. On the Cross was the end, no? Is it that hard to figure out time? Do we have to place the 4 Gospels in the OT, to ensure some are not confused on the issue?

The OT did not end at Jesus' birth. That is the doing of one man when, he went back and re-did the calendar, and he was still wrong, because, the birth is closer to 3BC. Jesus was born Before Christ. Go figure, hey? The calendar does not prove anything. Jesus death on the Cross fulfilled the OT usage of, "the last day". Anything Jesus said in His earthly ministry on the subject, he said prior to the Cross and the "last day".

No, using your imagination is trying to figure out when the last day happens. I do not have to imagine anything, because those verses explains the last day and what was done.

 

[Freedm]

It seems common sense that if Jesus spoke them it was before he died on the Cross. Perhaps your own senses interpret that differently?

He also spoke it before the last day of the week, the month, the year. He also spoke it before the last day of Pilate's reign, or for that matter the last day of Nero's reign, or the last day of the Jewish rebellion or the existence of the Roman empires, or literally any number of things, but he specified none of them.

Furthermore, you're completely ignoring Daniel 12:13 where the angel told Daniel he would rest until "the end of days". How do you fit that into your narrative?

 

[Timtofly]

He also spoke it before the last day of the week, the month, the year. He also spoke it before the last day of Pilate's reign, or for that matter the last day of Nero's reign, or the last day of the Jewish rebellion or the existence of the Roman empires, or literally any number of things, but he specified none of them.

Furthermore, you're completely ignoring Daniel 12:13 where the angel told Daniel he would rest until "the end of days". How do you fit that into your narrative?

Where do you think the generation of Jews in the 1st century got the thought of being resurrected on the last day?

I still do not understand how the Cross is not the most important last day for those who only had the OT? God only dealt with humanity at the point of the Cross. Any other day is just temporal carnality.

 

[Freedm]

Where do you think the generation of Jews in the 1st century got the thought of being resurrected on the last day?

From Jesus.

John 6:39
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

I still do not understand how the Cross is not the most important last day for those who only had the OT? God only dealt with humanity at the point of the Cross. Any other day is just temporal carnality.

Sure it's an important day, but Jesus didn't say he would raise up on the "the most important day". He said he would raise us up on "the last day".

 

[Timtofly]

From Jesus.

John 6:39
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

Sure it's an important day, but Jesus didn't say he would raise up on the "the most important day". He said he would raise us up on "the last day".

Some were raised on the last day. Why do you keep insisting there can only be one last day, when God Himself declares resurrections on multiple days?

 

[Freedm]

Some were raised on the last day. Why do you keep insisting there can only be one last day, when God Himself declares resurrections on multiple days?

The very definition of the word "last" requires that there is only one. That is literally the meaning of the word. Just as there can only be one "first", there can only be one "last".

This does not preclude the possibility of resurrections on multiple days. Not sure why you think one requires the other. Obviously there've been multiple resurrections already, and there will be more in the future, but there can only be one "last day". Not sure why you're having such a hard time with this.

 

[FredVB]

There is the general belief, with use of 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, and certain other verses, which some refer to, that there is this laid out scenario with the timing of the rapture, that being caught away with the Lord, incuded in that. It gets to be a very detailed scenario, like this as one example.
View attachment 285524
I was included among those with this kind of understanding. I have come to see that there can be a lot we are missing, just as pretty much everyone did when Jesus came among humanity the first time, with expectations from certain verses, and not recognize significance to other verses, and really not recognizing the signs of the times. I did hear before that we can see fulfillment with watching the news. But many now select what news they observe, and dismiss all the rest. So it is like not seeing the forest for the trees.

The rapture unfortunately the way it is accepted is used by Christianity widely with compromised believers to live with less responsibility where that should not be neglected, as they figure it will not matter, as they will be taken out anyway, and the rest of the world can go to hell. This use of concept of the rapture is bad. There is no excuse for ungodliness.

God's people who are in Mystery Babylon should not be remaining there, it is not the place for them. They should be doing what they can to get out, already. Yet many will not, until they hear from on high to do so. Mystery Babylon will collapse, and it will fall. This is neglected by this charting their understanding of end times with the rapture. Certainly God will have real believers living according to the faith in Christ taken out from this world, before judgment from God comes on the those in the world for their unrepented wickedness and destructiveness in their way of living. This being taken away is not the next thing to come. We will see more happen, including what consequences there are from how we live, before that, when it will yet be unexpected. The signs are not being given attention.

 

[Timtofly]

The very definition of the word "last" requires that there is only one. That is literally the meaning of the word. Just as there can only be one "first", there can only be one "last".

This does not preclude the possibility of resurrections on multiple days. Not sure why you think one requires the other. Obviously there've been multiple resurrections already, and there will be more in the future, but there can only be one "last day". Not sure why you're having such a hard time with this.

So the old covenant is still in full effect? It cannot end until the very last day. That is your proof there can only be one last day. Where is the physical temple this Covenant of animal sacrifices is still being performed today, since there can only be one last day, and it is still future? How dogmatic are you on this last day?

 

[Timtofly]

The rapture unfortunately the way it is accepted is used by Christianity widely with compromised believers to live with less responsibility where that should not be neglected, as they figure it will not matter, as they will be taken out anyway, and the rest of the world can go to hell. This use of concept of the rapture is bad. There is no excuse for ungodliness.

So the rapture teaches us to be foolish virgins unprepared for the event of the rapture? Are the wise virgins going to be left behind, and the foolish virgins leave in the rapture? The foolish were not prepared so they were taken away. The wise were prepared, but being wise and looking for the Rapture was stupid and escapism? Is this all reverse psychology?

 

[Freedm]

So the old covenant is still in full effect? It cannot end until the very last day. That is your proof there can only be one last day. Where is the physical temple this Covenant of animal sacrifices is still being performed today, since there can only be one last day, and it is still future? How dogmatic are you on this last day?

Where does it say that the old covenant is in effect until the last day?