The Rapture theory is true?

[Freedm]

And your body that is claimed "spiritual" is permanent and way better than you present body. It is the only incorruptible body you will get. The change was the second you left this body for the body in Paradise. 2 Corinthians 5.

I never claimed we got an incorruptible or spiritual body. That doesn't happen until the last day, when we are physically resurrected.

 

[Timtofly]

That chapter defines neither soul nor death, and since you can't produce any source for the definitions you espouse, let me tell you where I get my definitions from.

SOUL

Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

A "soul" is literally a living creature. Even the birds of the air and the worms in the dirt are souls. Any creature that has the breath of life. Without the breath of life we're just a lifeless body, made from dust, but with the breath of life we are a living soul.

Nowhere does scripture tell us that a soul is a conscious spiritual entity that lives inside our body. Only Hollywood tells us that.

DEATH

Job 14:10-12
But man dies and is laid away; indeed he breathes his last and where is he? As water disappears from the sea, and a river becomes parched and dries up, so man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor be roused from their sleep

You're right that death is like sleep, but unlike you, Job tells us that a dead man continues to sleep "till the heavens are no more". We don't get our spiritual bodies until the resurrection on the last day. The fantasy of going straight to heaven (or paradise) upon death, is just that, a fantasy.

The soul is not the body or spirit. And the soul cannot die. The first death is physical, the death of the body. If 2 Corinthians 5 is not about the soul dying, you are correct. It is about the body dying and the soul going from one body to the last body it will ever have.

The death of the spirit is in the lake of fire. The soul still does not die. So why do you define the soul by the death of the body and spirit? Then accuse me of not understanding?

The breadth of life is not physical, it is not physical air. The soul is who we are, and the body is just a dust shell. Paul calls this body a tent, perishable, and corrupted. The soul is not an essence of physical properties. Neither is it a spirit. The spirit was God’s glory, the brightness of a star on earth. It is fallen humanity that conflate the soul and spirit with human understanding.

Job was a messed up human because God allowed Satan to sift him as wheat. I would not base my acceptance on reality on words out of Job's mouth. Also the last day to those in the OT was Christ's death on the Cross. I will take the Gospels and Christ's Words over Job. Jesus had already used His voice to call Lazarus from sleep, back into a physical body. Matthew declares at the words "It is finished" many OT came out of the graves in Jerusalem.

Does not Christ call each soul at death as they leave this tent into the permanent building made by God in Paradise? Even the thief heard the voice of Jesus; "Then Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in Paradise." Luke 23:43. Literally, the second the thief passed from one body to the next, within hours of Jesus' death, Christ was there calling him home. The first "Christian" to die and enter Paradise. He literally followed Jesus to Paradise.

 

[Timtofly]

I never claimed we got an incorruptible or spiritual body. That doesn't happen until the last day, when we are physically resurrected.

The last day was the Cross in 30AD. Jesus declared, "It is finished". That was the last day.

 

[keras]

Literally, the second the thief passed from one body to the next, within hours of Jesus' death, Christ was there calling him home. The first "Christian" to die and enter Paradise. He literally followed Jesus to Paradise.

Quite wrong.
Jesus did not ascend to heaven until 40 days later. Acts 1:9-11

The thief on the cross, who repented is not in heaven now; he awaits the GWT Judgment, which will be after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15
Just as Adam, Job, David, Lazarus, John 11:23, and everyone dead or alive, await the LAST DAY of mortal mankind, when the Book of life will be opened.

 

[Freedm]

The last day was the Cross in 30AD. Jesus declared, "It is finished". That was the last day.

Literally impossible for the last day to be followed by more days.

 

[Timtofly]

Literally impossible for the last day to be followed by more days.

Are you saying Jesus' death on the cross was nothing? Surely you do not view it as just another crucifixion? It was the last day of the sting of death. It was the last day of Abraham's bosom. It was the last day, the Garden of Eden was guarded by an angel. It was the last day of the temple being a holy place where God came once a year. Why would you force these things to keep on going as if nothing happened?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Are you saying Jesus' death on the cross was nothing? Surely you do not view it as just another crucifixion? It was the last day of the sting of death. It was the last day of Abraham's bosom. It was the last day, the Garden of Eden was guarded by an angel. It was the last day of the temple being a holy place where God came once a year. Why would you force these things to keep on going as if nothing happened?

His death on the cross was the last day in the sense that you're talking about because He said "It is finished", but that's not "the last day" that was being talked about in this thread. That future "last day" is this one:

John 6:40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

John 12:48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

The above verses speak of the future last day that will be the last day of earth as we know it. It will be the day that the dead are resurrected and the wicked are condemned.

Scripture teaches that the resurrection of the dead will occur when Christ returns at His second coming at the last trumpet (1 Cor 15:20-23, 50-54) and John 6:40 indicates that will occur "at the last day". Do you agree with that?

Scripture teaches that the day of judgment will occur when Christ returns (Matt 13:40-43, Matt 16:27, Matt 25:31-46) and John 12:48 says that will occur "at the last day". Do you agree with that?

 

[iamlamad]

Literally impossible for the last day to be followed by more days.

Unless the "last day" was specified to be the last day of a series of days, say the last day of a feast.

For example, there will be a last 24 hour day of the age of grace in which we live.
There will be a last 24 hour day of the 70th week of Daniel.
There will be a last 24 hour day of the 1000 year reign of Christ.
Ah! There will be a last 24 hour day of the first half of the 70th week, and the second half.

 

[Timtofly]

His death on the cross was the last day in the sense that you're talking about because He said "It is finished", but that's not "the last day" that was being talked about in this thread. That future "last day" is this one:

John 6:40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

John 12:48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

The above verses speak of the future last day that will be the last day of earth as we know it. It will be the day that the dead are resurrected and the wicked are condemned.

Scripture teaches that the resurrection of the dead will occur when Christ returns at His second coming at the last trumpet (1 Cor 15:20-23, 50-54) and John 6:40 indicates that will occur "at the last day". Do you agree with that?

Scripture teaches that the day of judgment will occur when Christ returns (Matt 13:40-43, Matt 16:27, Matt 25:31-46) and John 12:48 says that will occur "at the last day". Do you agree with that?

Any one talking about the OT last day were talking about the Cross. Do you agree with that?

Now you have to decide the resurrection of the dead. Because it is only the dead, those who have salvation only in themselves, who rejected Christ, who are raised on the last day, as Jesus taught. No one, because no one was told, but only John saw it and experienced the first Resurrection in Revelation 20:4. No one in the OT knew about this soon (to us today, not them) coming resurrection. Jesus did not teach this resurrection. No one in the NT knew of this resurrection. It only happens after the battle of Armageddon, and John is the only human on earth who has been there, and done that. That is why John put the disclaimer at the end of each of the 7 letters he sent to the literal churches in Asia. No one in history was supposed to claim that the book of Revelation happened until the events in the book actually begin to happen. The first event being the 1st seal. The seals only happened this year, but it seems no one will care or understand except in hindsight after it is too late. Everyone has an opinion, even the early church fathers and their theology. Satan also has been allowed to sow false theology in the last 1990 years.

To reject the next 1000 years as the Day of the Lord is the thing that John made the least symbolic so no one would ever say it is only symbolism, yet some have. He did not even call it the Day of the Lord, because that is a very symbolic term that has several connotations. It is 1000 years and only a 1000 years, nothing more, nothing less. There is a Resurrection at the start. There is a resurrection at the end. The end of the last 1000 years is the last day, with no more days left. This is the resurrection to avoid, not look forward to. The only Resurrection of importance was the one at the Cross. Until the rapture, then such choice will be taken away, never offered again. Only God and the Lamb choose who will be resurrected in Revelation 20:4. And no dead people in the grave before God reaps the final harvest, because they already made the choice. In the last 42 months, choice will be returned and those who choose to not take the mark and choose to be beheaded will be the last humans to be resurrected in Revelation 20:4.

No one will be able to choose to stay home instead of showing up at the battle of Armageddon. Their choice is sealed in Death on that day at the battle of Armageddon. The choice to be marked (branded) and worship Satan had been made in those 42 months. The only thing Amil get right is all will die on that day. To contradict that point is the post rapture belief that humans can endure without being beheaded. No one will be around to rapture. They all have been marked, to endure to that point. They decided not to be beheaded, because beheadings is not defined in enduring. Yet their choice was to be marked instead. Their life was saved, not their soul.

It seems clear to me that to endure was to keep trusting God, and not follow false teachings. Nothing physical to the endurance Jesus taught. Now why did they not spiritualize that endurance along with every other literal idea that was spiritualized?

 

[Oseas]

Based in the Word of God, the source of the truth, on God's plan of six Days of creation and one Day of rest (a total of seven days) plus the Scriptures that teach that one Day is with the Lord as a thousand years(Psalm 90:4; II Pet. 3:8; Heb. 4:4) so MANKIND would go through six God Days of 1,000 years each (a total of 6,000 years already concluded).

The Word of God is the true source, the times God the Father has put in His own Power. The only truth is the expressed biblical Chronology.

In the fourth Day of God's plan to restoration all things-Acts 3:v.18-26-, I mean around two thousand years ago,evidently, our Lord JESUS said: My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.John 5:v.17. That said, it is obvious that a total of 6,000 years is already concluded plenly / fully, right?

In fact, today we are still in the beginning of FIRST century of the seventh and last millennium, or seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day. You know that the Most High and Almighty God reserved previously exactly the current seventh Day for His rest, we are living in.
I state by the Word of the Most High God: JESUS is now sat in His throne, the Judgment Seat of Christ is already running, while the Most High and Almighty God is resting of His works.

That said, here goes Acts 3:v.18-24 - Remember: It was still the fourth Day
18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all His prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. (combined with Hebrews 1:v.1-14)

19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

20 And God shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

21 Whom the heaven (the third heaven where JESUS is now) must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

 

[Freedm]

Are you saying Jesus' death on the cross was nothing? Surely you do not view it as just another crucifixion? It was the last day of the sting of death. It was the last day of Abraham's bosom. It was the last day, the Garden of Eden was guarded by an angel. It was the last day of the temple being a holy place where God came once a year. Why would you force these things to keep on going as if nothing happened?

I said it's literally impossible for the last day to be followed by more days. So where do you get all this stuff from?

 

[Freedm]

Unless the "last day" was specified to be the last day of a series of days, say the last day of a feast.

For example, there will be a last 24 hour day of the age of grace in which we live.
There will be a last 24 hour day of the 70th week of Daniel.
There will be a last 24 hour day of the 1000 year reign of Christ.
Ah! There will be a last 24 hour day of the first half of the 70th week, and the second half.

But it wasn't. Jesus said he would come get us "on the last day". Period. Stop inserting words to make it fit your ideas. Just read what it says.

 

[SeventyOne]

I said it's literally impossible for the last day to be followed by more days. So where do you get all this stuff from?

Biblically, the 'last day' is also a referent to the 8th day of Tabernacles. There is a 'last day' every single year. As it happens, the 'last day' this year actually starts tomorrow according to the Enochian calendar.

 

[Timtofly]

I said it's literally impossible for the last day to be followed by more days. So where do you get all this stuff from?

Because God has many last days in history. Do you believe in just one special last day? If it is your last day in this physical body, is it the last day for everyone else? Do you think that any one will be alive on the last day or all dead? Some dead, some alive? How can any one live on your final last day? I say all of Adam's descendants have already died a 1000 years before the last day. The last day is not defined by physical death period. The last day is when reality literally changes around all the living. No one dies that day. Reality changes and life goes on as if nothing happened. Souls did not die that day. Reality died and God gave all souls a brand new reality, and their living bodies never noticed the change around them. They completely understood what God did and why it happened, and some even how it happened.

If nothing happens at your last day, I feel sorry that your body just stopped being. It never made it to the next reality, if that is what you accept and believe, according to the impossibility of your dilemma. I agree that this reality stops being and nothing that we know about it continues past that point. At that point we will be of the understanding and prepared for the next reality. That is my point. The only thing from this reality will be the scars in the hands, feet, and side of Jesus Christ. I am not sure if the GWT will enter the next reality. I highly doubt it. It may be a different color, who knows?

 

[parousia70]

I said it's literally impossible for the last day to be followed by more days.

Depends on what it’s the last day of.

 

[Freedm]

Biblically, the 'last day' is also a referent to the 8th day of Tabernacles. There is a 'last day' every single year. As it happens, the 'last day' this year actually starts tomorrow according to the Enochian calendar.

No. There is a "last day of the year", every year. That's not the same as "the last day". Don't you realize that you're adding in words to scripture to make it fit your ideas?

 

[SeventyOne]

No. There is a "last day of the year", every year. That's not the same as "the last day". Don't you realize that you're adding in words to scripture to make it fit your ideas?

Just letting you know that in the Jewish world, the 'last day' is a referent to the 8th day of Tabernacles. When they would have heard about the 'last day', that would have been what came to mind. It is what it is. If you want to redefine the words to fit your theology, that's on you.

But to make the claim that the 'last day' means it absolutely has to be the last day forever is just as irresponsible as someone telling you they ate the last cookie and you insisting that means there are no more cookies left in the world. Wouldn't surprise me if you're one of those who insist the 'last trump' has to be the 7th trumpet in Revelation since it's the last one mentioned. Spending a bit of time understanding how the Lord uses His appointed times would really clear a lot of it up.

 

[Freedm]

Because God has many last days in history. Do you believe in just one special last day? If it is your last day in this physical body, is it the last day for everyone else? Do you think that any one will be alive on the last day or all dead? Some dead, some alive? How can any one live on your final last day? I say all of Adam's descendants have already died a 1000 years before the last day. The last day is not defined by physical death period. The last day is when reality literally changes around all the living. No one dies that day. Reality changes and life goes on as if nothing happened. Souls did not die that day. Reality died and God gave all souls a brand new reality, and their living bodies never noticed the change around them. They completely understood what God did and why it happened, and some even how it happened.

If nothing happens at your last day, I feel sorry that your body just stopped being. It never made it to the next reality, if that is what you accept and believe, according to the impossibility of your dilemma. I agree that this reality stops being and nothing that we know about it continues past that point. At that point we will be of the understanding and prepared for the next reality. That is my point. The only thing from this reality will be the scars in the hands, feet, and side of Jesus Christ. I am not sure if the GWT will enter the next reality. I highly doubt it. It may be a different color, who knows?

The fact that you refer to "the impossibility of my dilemma" tells me that you don't understand what I'm saying at all. Not sure why you're making this so complicated.

All those different last days you're talking about are last days of something. I'm talking about simply the very last day. Revelation 21 and 22 both tell us that there will be no more sun and no more night. That means we won't always have days, and so there is a last day. Even Daniel 12 talks about "the end of days" so we know there will be an end to our system of time, and so when Jesus talks about "the last day", he's literally talking about the last day.

 

[Freedm]

Depends on what it’s the last day of.

The last day is the last day of days. Not sure why everybody's having such a hard time with this. Revelation 21 and 22 clearly tell us there will be no more night, so that means there will be one final day, with no more days to follow. Simple.

 

[Freedm]

Just letting you know that in the Jewish world, the 'last day' is a referent to the 8th day of Tabernacles. When they would have heard about the 'last day', that would have been what came to mind. It is what it is. If you want to redefine the words to fit your theology, that's on you.

But to make the claim that the 'last day' means it absolutely has to be the last day forever is just as irresponsible as someone telling you they ate the last cookie and you insisting that means there are no more cookies left in the world. Wouldn't surprise me if you're one of those who insist the 'last trump' has to be the 7th trumpet in Revelation since it's the last one mentioned. Spending a bit of time understanding how the Lord uses His appointed times would really clear a lot of it up.

Wow. I'm literally telling you that I believe exactly what the scripture says, and you're accusing me of "redefining the words to fit my theology"? I'm not the one requiring more words to be added to the end of "the last day". I've always maintained the last day refers to the last day. Do not accuse me of changing scripture.