The Rapture is not Biblical, False Doctrine? But accepted?

Biblewriter · Dec 28, 2016

Larry O'Neal said:
You bring up a very good topic. Sadly, a lot of preachers teach that Christians will be "raptured" before or during the tribulation, and that those that are "left behind" will have a chance to accept Jesus. This is totally false and is a doctrine of demons. It's telling people that you have plenty of time to accept Jesus, and if He comes before you do, you will have 2nd chance. Actually, when Jesus returns, He will come with a shout of the archangel to collect all those who are saved. It will not be a secret event, and it will not be before or during the tribulation. We must endure to the end as the Bible says. Then the elements will melt with fervent heat. So those that are left will not last long. After 1000 years, the kingdom of God comes to earth, He raises the non believing dead, Satan tries one last time to take Gods kingdom, but we all know he will fail and proclaim Jesus as Lord. All those that were lost throughout all of history will be judged, and thrown into the lake of fire. This is the Great White Throne Judgment. Which ever doctrine you believe, it would be better to teach others to accept Jesus now, and not wait till its to late, rather than tell them that Jesus will take the saved, then give unbelievers a second chance to accept Him, then come again. No. He will come quickly, and He is given all the opportunity now to accept Him.

Actually, you need to study the ideas you are opposing, before you attempt to answer them. The doctrine that actually teaches people that they have plenty of time is post trib. What pre-trib, or at least the pre-trib of classical dispensationalism, actually teaches is that after the rapture, there will be no further chance for anyone who has previously rejected the gospel. For the scriptures clearly state that:

2Th 2:9 "The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

Blade · Dec 28, 2016

Frank Lo said:
The Rapture is not Biblical, False Doctrine?

But accepted?

Can't find the word rapture in my bible only accepted by a lot Christian circles, why?

Does Satan wants to deceive us and make us lose hope, be afraid?

Does anybody has a Biblical answer?

Try reading a "italian bible". Anyway the word is "CAUGHT UP" it is in the bible..

Yet its not part of salvation. If one is not ready not watching or does not believe to them He will be like a thief in the night.. that comes takes something yet your still there but something else is missing. He told us to watch and pray.. to pray we are counted worthy to escape.

A old Jewish wedding.. he pays a price for his bride. He then goes back to his fathers house to make them a home. She stays behind getting ready and stuff. But she has to always be watching for she does not know when he is coming back. Has to have the candle going. HAHA song playing "Glory Unspeakable about Jesus coming.. wow WOW what are the odds"!

So about a year later he comes back mostly at night with some friends and makes a loud noise so she knows he is coming. They both then go back to his fathers house for about a week. HAHA wow..

So.. Jesus said.. I am going back to my Fathers house to make you a home and if I go I will come back and get you/take you/receive you unto my self so where I am you will be. Where I go you know..how I go you know. So WHEN did Jesus come back and get them? Yeah.. He does not know when ..so you BEST be watching ready NOW! Me.. there is no PRE MID or POST tribulation. I am ready NOW! It will always be NOW when my savior comes to get us. So I am ready NOW! I live this life as if THIS moment is WHEN Jesus is coming. For we were NEVER promised tomorrow. And if you are looking at tomorrow then you are NOT ready NOW! And you will miss Him

DONT get stuck on what ANYONE says not even me. Take JESUS at HIS word. Just haha just believe. HE cant lie. He said I am coming back to get you..so keep praying stay out of sin and BELIEVE! Be ready NOW!

floren11 · Dec 28, 2016

It's called the marriage feast of the groom and it's in Matthew 25; and the door was shut.

sparow · Dec 29, 2016

Cowherder said:
There is a false doctrine surrounding the idea of Rapture. The idea is that God will gather you before the great tribulation if your a Christian - and that you will not have to be on earth during that time.

Mark 13 - the olivet discourse.

Pay special attention to verse 24-27 which implies the gathering of Gods people occurs after the great tribulation not before.

Mark 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.

13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:

16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.

17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.

19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:

22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

The rapture is a small part of a bigger mess called Futurism, that denies Christ the seventieth week and gives the seventieth week to Satan.

Ron Gurley · Dec 29, 2016

?Rapture?...snatched / taken out / caught up / gathering together...

God the Holy Spirit and Believers removed before/during/after the "great tribulation" of the End times ....supporting Scriptures.

Revelations 19: 11-16....The Rider on the White Horse
14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.

To the Church in Philadelphia:
Revelations 3:10...

10....I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth. 11 I am coming soon.

1 Thessalonians 1:10
10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath

THE RAPTURE:

1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18 (NIV)...RETURN - RESURRECTION - RAPTURE (Latin:rapturo) - REUNION

Matthew 24....Jesus prophecy on the "end times"...

31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet
and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Matthew 13...the gathering of the wheat (believers) and the tares (unbelievers)

41 The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears,let him hear.

1 Corinthians 15:52
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

2 Thessalonians 2...The Anti-Christ revealed before the restraining of God the Holy Spirit removed

1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the (SECOND) coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,
and our (C) "gathering together to" Him,

RUMOR..."the day of the Lord" (already) has come.

3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it "the day of the Lord" will not come unless (and until) THE apostasy (falling away) comes first, AND the man of lawlessness (Anti-Christ) is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship,
so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

Ron Gurley · Dec 29, 2016

?Rapture?...snatched / taken out / caught up / gathering together...

God the Holy Spirit and Believers removed before/during/after the "great tribulation" of the End times ....supporting Scriptures.

Revelations 19: 11-16....The Rider on the White Horse
14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.

To the Church in Philadelphia:
Revelations 3:10...

10....I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth. 11 I am coming soon.

1 Thessalonians 1:10
10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath

THE RAPTURE:

1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18 (NIV)...RETURN - RESURRECTION - RAPTURE (Latin:rapturo) - REUNION

Matthew 24....Jesus prophecy on the "end times"...

31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet
and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Matthew 13...the gathering of the wheat (believers) and the tares (unbelievers)

41 The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears,let him hear.

1 Corinthians 15:52
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

2 Thessalonians 2...The Anti-Christ revealed before the restraining of God the Holy Spirit removed

1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the (SECOND) coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,
and our (C) "gathering together to" Him,

RUMOR..."the day of the Lord" (already) has come.

3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it "the day of the Lord" will not come unless (and until) THE apostasy (falling away) comes first, AND the man of lawlessness (Anti-Christ) is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship,
so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

Kenneth Redden · Dec 29, 2016

Thank you, Jesus!

floren11 · Dec 29, 2016

Then shall two be in the field; the one taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken and the other left. (Matthew 24:40-41)

Kenneth Redden · Dec 29, 2016

Frank Lo said:
The Rapture is not Biblical, False Doctrine?

But accepted?

Can't find the word rapture in my bible only accepted by a lot Christian circles, why?

Does Satan wants to deceive us and make us lose hope, be afraid?

Does anybody has a Biblical answer?

Maybe not, however; I would call that finishing up in Revelation 19:16 KJV, a Rapture!

It doesn't matter what Satan wants, we are bound by the science of this Universe. And we are sin free, in which the word, "now," in Romans 6:22 and 2 Peter 3:7 may be read to support this position.

Unit 11 · Dec 29, 2016

Just don't let anyone drag you into an argument about when it's supposed to happen...

JellyQuest · Dec 29, 2016

Cowherder said:
There is a false doctrine surrounding the idea of Rapture. The idea is that God will gather you before the great tribulation if your a Christian - and that you will not have to be on earth during that time.

Mark 13 - the olivet discourse.

Pay special attention to verse 24-27 which implies the gathering of Gods people occurs after the great tribulation not before.

Mark 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.

13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:

16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.

17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.

19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:

22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

it has always been the standard belief in the church throughout the ages that the believers would be present through terrible times -and have been and will be again soon .and that we will be caught up to be Together with the lord after that time . caught up to be together with those who were just resurrected moments before .

it is a relatively New doctrine that they are caught away before that time .. but if there is a time in which multitudes of believers will be suddenly caught away from the earth it will be not "that event ' but more likely a nuclear war .

JellyQuest · Dec 29, 2016

Kenneth Redden said:
Maybe not, however; I would call that finishing up in Revelation 19:16 KJV, a Rapture!

It doesn't matter what Satan wants, we are bound by the science of this Universe; sin free, which the word, "now," in Romans 6:22 and 2 Peter 3:7 may be read to support this notion.

we are certainly not bound by the science of this universe but free in the word of God who rules OVER it and it is subject to him .
After all , when he comes he will roll up the heavens like a scroll and appear . (which puts an end to all lying theories of theistic evolution too )

marineimaging · Dec 29, 2016

Someone stated that we who believe in pre-trib have based our faith on that event alone so when it happens we will all lose our salvation and wither away. If some evangelical Christians have based their belief on that then they have no belief and are not saved in the first place. Secondly, Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross was the atonement eternal. So our deliverance, be it pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib..., it doesn't matter as far as our belief goes and as far as those who are around me are concerned. We study the Bible and we have reason to believe in pre-trib Rapture. However, we are also confident that our salvation and choice of savior has nothing to do with when and if the Lord has predetermined if he will come before, during, or after the tribulation. We know the tribulation will happen and is on course to happen soon. We know that our salvation through Jesus Christ is secure and that the only thing to endanger that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. We know that Jesus will reign for a thousand years and there will be an end to Satan and a renewal and reinstatement of our existence with God. The Rapture will happen. The when, that is up to God. Not man.

Biblewriter · Dec 29, 2016

Unit 11 said:
Just don't let anyone drag you into an argument about when it's supposed to happen...

ALL such arguments are endless. For everyone has an opinion, and almost no one is willing to even consider whether or not their own opinion is the correct one.

Biblewriter · Dec 29, 2016

JellyQuest said:
it has always been the standard belief in the church throughout the ages that the believers would be present through terrible times -and have been and will be again soon .and that we will be caught up to be Together with the lord after that time . caught up to be together with those who were just resurrected moments before .

it is a relatively New doctrine that they are caught away before that time .. but if there is a time in which multitudes of believers will be suddenly caught away from the earth it will be not "that event ' but more likely a nuclear war .

Actually, a catching away of the church before the great tribulation is taught in the very oldest Christian commentary on Bible prophecy (of any significant length) that has survived to the present day, and has been taught again and again throughout the history of the church. I traced this doctrine through ancient times in post #48 of this thread, and also summarized its occurences in later times.

expos4ever · Dec 29, 2016

Biblewriter said:
The claim that this doctrine is only about 200 years old, is completely false.

While there is some truth in what you are saying, the rapture concept is very recent, at least in the context of the 2000 year-old history of the church. From Wikipedia:

In 1590, Francisco Ribera, a Catholic Jesuit, taught "futurism," the idea that most of Revelation was about the future rather than about the Catholic Church. He also taught that the rapture would happen 45 days before the end of a 3.5-year tribulation.

The concept of the rapture, in connection with premillennialism, was expressed by the 17th-century American Puritans Increase and Cotton Mather. They held to the idea that believers would be caught up in the air, followed by judgments on earth, and then the millennium.[24][25] Other 17th-century expressions of the rapture are found in the works of: Robert Maton, Nathaniel Homes, John Browne, Thomas Vincent, Henry Danvers, and William Sherwin.[26] The term rapture was used by Philip Doddridge[27] and John Gill[28] in their New Testament commentaries, with the idea that believers would be caught up prior to judgment on earth and Jesus' second coming.

There exists at least one 18th-century and two 19th-century pre-tribulation references: in an essay published in 1788 in Philadelphia by the Baptist Morgan Edwards which articulated the concept of a pre-tribulation rapture,[29] in the writings of Catholic priest Manuel Lacunza in 1812,[30] and by John Nelson Darby in 1827.[31] Manuel Lacunza (1731–1801), a Jesuit priest (under the pseudonym Juan Josafat Ben Ezra), wrote an apocalyptic work entitled La venida del Mesías en gloria y majestad (The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty). The book appeared first in 1811, 10 years after his death. In 1827, it was translated into English by the Scottish minister Edward Irving.[citation needed]

Dr. Samuel Prideaux Tregelles (1813-1875), a prominent English theologian and biblical scholar, wrote a pamphlet in 1866 tracing the concept of the rapture through the works of John Darby back to Edward Irving.[32]

Loves Yehushua · Dec 29, 2016

Frank Lo said:
The Rapture is not Biblical, False Doctrine?

But accepted?

Can't find the word rapture in my bible only accepted by a lot Christian circles, why?

Does Satan wants to deceive us and make us lose hope, be afraid?

Does anybody has a Biblical answer?

The Bible in the new testament was originally written in greek. As we know we have many translations, which tend to distort the original meaning. The idea behind the word rapture is recorded in 1 Corinthians 15:52, which states that It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed.
1 THessalonians 4:17, which state that After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
This two verses summarize what the term rapture entails.

Loves Yehushua · Dec 29, 2016

AV1611VET said:
There are three types of saints:

Old Testament saints
New Testament saints
Tribulation saints

The New Testament saints will be raptured before the Tribulation starts.

The verses that pertain to going through the Tribulation apply to the Tribulation saints, not the New Testament saints.

The New Testament saints will NOT get caught up before the tribulation. We will have to go through the tribulation as a testing of our faith. Matthew 24 highlights that.

Biblewriter · Dec 29, 2016

expos4ever said:
While there is some truth in what you are saying, the rapture concept is very recent, at least in the context of the 2000 year-old history of the church. From Wikipedia:

In 1590, Francisco Ribera, a Catholic Jesuit, taught "futurism," the idea that most of Revelation was about the future rather than about the Catholic Church. He also taught that the rapture would happen 45 days before the end of a 3.5-year tribulation.

The concept of the rapture, in connection with premillennialism, was expressed by the 17th-century American Puritans Increase and Cotton Mather. They held to the idea that believers would be caught up in the air, followed by judgments on earth, and then the millennium.[24][25] Other 17th-century expressions of the rapture are found in the works of: Robert Maton, Nathaniel Homes, John Browne, Thomas Vincent, Henry Danvers, and William Sherwin.[26] The term rapture was used by Philip Doddridge[27] and John Gill[28] in their New Testament commentaries, with the idea that believers would be caught up prior to judgment on earth and Jesus' second coming.

There exists at least one 18th-century and two 19th-century pre-tribulation references: in an essay published in 1788 in Philadelphia by the Baptist Morgan Edwards which articulated the concept of a pre-tribulation rapture,[29] in the writings of Catholic priest Manuel Lacunza in 1812,[30] and by John Nelson Darby in 1827.[31] Manuel Lacunza (1731–1801), a Jesuit priest (under the pseudonym Juan Josafat Ben Ezra), wrote an apocalyptic work entitled La venida del Mesías en gloria y majestad (The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty). The book appeared first in 1811, 10 years after his death. In 1827, it was translated into English by the Scottish minister Edward Irving.[citation needed]

Dr. Samuel Prideaux Tregelles (1813-1875), a prominent English theologian and biblical scholar, wrote a pamphlet in 1866 tracing the concept of the rapture through the works of John Darby back to Edward Irving.[32]

A rapture before the great tribulation was clearly taught a very long time before Francisco Ribera was even born, as I have reviewed in post #48 of this thread. It was again taught repeatedly in the 1600s, by numerous writers who are quoted in "Dispensationalism Before Darby," by William C. Watson, pub. by Lampion press, 2015, pp. 131-178. This source, written by a professor of 17th and 18th century English literature, also quoted numerous such statements in the 1700s.

The fact that some writers in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries were ignorant of these very many much older writers is immaterial.

Hank77 · Dec 29, 2016

Biblewriter said:
In his writing, Irenaeus used the term "the righteous" in exactly the same way that pre-tribbers of today use the term "the righteous remnant," in describing those who are left behind when the church is "suddenly caught up," but who turn to the Lord and attempt to be faithful to the Him after that time. That is, he used this term as distinguishing them from "the church," "us," or "we," as he had always said up to that point in his scenario.

And I need to clarify that I am not saying that Irenaeus was correct in his views. I am only reporting on what he taught.

He very clearly says that we will be 'taken up' in the resurrection.
He use 'they', 'themselves', 'them', even when talking about our bodies.

You are stating what you believe Irenaeus was teaching but ignore when he says the 'taking up' is the resurrection? I guess that can work for you.

The Rapture is not Biblical, False Doctrine? But accepted?

Senior Member

Veteran

Newbie

Well-Known Member

What U See is What U Get!

What U See is What U Get!

The day I found 2 Timothy 3:15 KJV!

Newbie

The day I found 2 Timothy 3:15 KJV!

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Texas Baptist now living in Colorado

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Member

Senior Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency