The Qur'an

[ProScribe]

A question about the Qur'an - what do Muslims believe is the source of inspiration for the book?

(ie) The Qur'an is inspired by?

(ie) What is its source of inspiration? (the book)

 

[ProScribe]

If one is in the United States, they can obtain a beautiful Qur'an translation for the cost of shipping from CAIR (braces for the accusations that CAIR is evil). I own this translation, and it's one of my favorites. It has excellent footnotes that survey a wide variety of quranic commentary. On occasion, the translator's conclusions aren't quite the norm, but the positives far outweigh the negatives.

However, I should note that when I read the Qur'an in translation, I usually do so with several translations in front of me. If one translation doesn't capture the totality of the meaning of a particular word or verse, usually several together provide a better meaning. I usually have the Muhammad Asad one I mentioned above, as well as saheeh international and Thomas Cleary. The former is more in a quasi old english with thees and thous, where as the latter two are more modern english. Saheeh International is a pretty run of the mill, middle of the road translation. Thomas Cleary does things a bit differently, which I find interesting and refreshing.

Thats the reference I was looking for. Thanks

 

[peaceful soul]

The religion consists of 3 things: Islam, Iman and Ihsan. Islam are the rituals, the declaration of faith, prayer, fasting, charity and hajj. Iman is the faith, what we believe, in God, His Angels, His Books, His Messengers, the Day of Judgment and Divine Decree. Ihsan is the internal, the purification of the heart.

If one practices islam in it's totality, as it's suppose to be practiced, they will pay attention to the outward details AND the inward state of one's heart and soul. In the rituals of washing, we are not merely washing our outward limbs. We are washing to remind ourselves that we should not sin with our tongue, our hands, our eyes, our heart. With each movement, we ask forgiveness for our transgressions and seek to remain pure there after.

So no, they are not suppose to be empty rituals that are superficial and external. They are an extension of our inward purification.

I can respect that in its intentions, but I think what most Christians object to is the fact that trying to stop yourself from sinning is a lost cause by performing rituals and practicing conformity without God actually doing the work within you. We see your rituals as a type of "middle man" whereby God is not enough alone to change your disposition to sin. Works, and more works are needed to lift the guilt of your sins. Your practices are seen as external and superficial since they don't change the heart--they can only give the appearance of changing the heart by getting you to remember not to do something or to do something, which is just changing behaviors--not the heart. So, from your perspective and teachings, you believe that Allah is looking at you with approval for doing these things in part because he has set up a reward system for you that motivates you to continue these practices while accumulating points on your account of righteousness with him. To a Christian, this is nothing but acts of selfrighteousness which is worthless to God since your standards fail his requirements--you do things against God that you know that you shouldn't despite your knowledge. That shows intention against God's will, which is not simply fixed by asking for forgiveness and doing good deeds. That violation still occured and is a strike against you. It can't be fixed without judgement against you. God is not interested in how good you appear to others, but how you measure up to Him, which is what Muslims don't understand.

Although Christians should care about their actions, we realize that no self will or rituals can adequately deal with consequences of having a sinful nature. From a social perspective, we shoud try to stop doing certain things since we impede upon the rights and freedoms of others, but from a spiritual perspective, we can't internally change our hearts like that. This is where Islam fails. I realize that you view sin in a different way than we do, but I still hope that you can realize that sin causes you to do things that you know in your mind and heart that you shouldn't do; yet, you do them anyways. If you know that you shouldn't do them, then why do you do them in spite of your knowledge of them? This is what I feel Christianity deals with properly through Christ, Jesus, who you deny as the "Son of God", "The Lamb of God", and the "The Word of God".

Thank you for the info.

 

[Arthra]

"...trying to stop yourself from sinning is a lost cause by performing rituals and practicing conformity"

Mmmm.. What about the various rituals prescribed in the church for blessing, cleansing (Baptism) and confession? It seems these are symbols usually understood and do not have in themselves power only what people give them to a degree and based on their faith.

Magic it seems to me is a belief that the magic words can be pronounced for the change ... hence "hocus pocus" a corruption of hoc est corpus or something like that:

Why 'hocus pocus'? One attempt at an explanation of the origin comes from John Tillotson, Archbishop of Canterbury in 1694. In his 'Sermons' he suggests that it is a parody of the consecration of the Catholic Mass:

"In all probability those common juggling words of hocus pocus are nothing else but a corruption of hoc est corpus, by way of ridiculous imitation of the priests of the Church of Rome in their trick of Transubstantiation."

....

Ritual though is to me a way to buttress the power of a priest.. as usually it requires someone with a title in the church...

-Art
​

 

[peaceful soul]

originally posted by Arthra

"...trying to stop yourself from sinning is a lost cause by performing rituals and practicing conformity"

Mmmm.. What about the various rituals prescribed in the church for blessing, cleansing (Baptism) and confession? It seems these are symbols usually understood and do not have in themselves power only what people give them to a degree and based on their faith.

These things are not obligatory, but some people make them obligatory and therefore, spoil the spirit of doing them. Christianity teaches individualism in our profession of our faith, which is contrary to Islam. Church traditions do not usurp Jesus' teachings, but some denominations do put too much stock in certain traditions while others don't put enough. There has to be the proper balance.

Magic it seems to me is a belief that the magic words can be pronounced for the change ... hence "hocus pocus" a corruption of hoc est corpus or something like that:

Why 'hocus pocus'? One attempt at an explanation of the origin comes from John Tillotson, Archbishop of Canterbury in 1694. In his 'Sermons' he suggests that it is a parody of the consecration of the Catholic Mass:

"In all probability those common juggling words of hocus pocus are nothing else but a corruption of hoc est corpus, by way of ridiculous imitation of the priests of the Church of Rome in their trick of Transubstantiation."

....

Ritual though is to me a way to buttress the power of a priest.. as usually it requires someone with a title in the church...

-Art
​

Traditions of the Church are not salvific. Some of them are Biblical such as being baptised as an outward sign of your inward confession, but some take baptism as a requirement and legalize it, which makes it into a ritual much like the five prayers in Islam. God can't order someone to pray if they understand what prayer is--a voluntary communication with God. Prayers become rituals when they are sought as a means of finding favor with God and as something that they must do by coercion or when they think that they must say certain words in order for their prayers to be effective. Acts that are Biblically based and are freely done are not rituals in the way that most religious ritual are seen. If one does not have the freedom to practice things with their own conviction according to the scripture, then it is fruitless in the eyes of God, from my understanding.

There is no secret formula for confessions and other things. Either you do things out of your heart, which require a voluntary act--no coercion, or you are just going through the motions. There is no inbetween, IMO. Mass is not something that saves us; therefore it cannot have any authority over one's standing with God; however if it is done voluntarily and with the understanding of its purpose, then it can be acceptable to God.

 

[yaqovzadeek]

To practicing Muslims, where can I find a copy of book in the English translation?

you can get it for free, just request it at http://www.imanway.com/en/forumdisplay.php?f=11
With pleasure they will send you one anywhere in the world free of charge.
peace
yaqovzadeek
aka James the just

 

[newbeliever02072005]

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