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The question Evolutionsists can't answer
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DJ_Ghost
Trad Goth
- Mar 27, 2004
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Intrepid99 said:
Then you have answered the question, [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] was evolved but the desire to experience one was not evolved it is a consequence of our psychology.
Ghost
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Jimmy The Hand
I Have Been Complexified!
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How did [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] evolve? No one in here were able to answer that.DJ_Ghost said:
Only if such thing existed, the psycology would yearn for sex. But if psycology did not experience such thing before, desire for sexual [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] would not have been possible.
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Nathan David
Well-Known Member
It evolved the way everything evolved, from a chance mutation or combination of allelles. Male organism confers a reproductive advantage: males who enjoy [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] are more likely to have offspring than males who do not. It is not clear that female [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] confer an advantage; many female animals do not have anything that looks like an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] and many human females never have them but still get pregnant. There is some evidence that the act of contraction during female [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] helps facilitate fertilization, however.Intrepid99 said:
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Jimmy The Hand
I Have Been Complexified!
Contraction in the female causes the cervix to dip into the pool of sperm causing the transfer to be more facile.
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funyun
aude sapere...sed praeterea, aude esse
Intrepid99 said:
This should be glaringly obvious. Incentive to reproduce. I'd say the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] came before the desire for one (what does that even mean; "desire for [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]"?
), just as the egg did in fact come before the chicken.
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Is it just more or does this sound like the fallacy that animals can control evolution?
Ok, I haven't read through much of the thread but has anyone mentioned that pleasure from sex is only experienced by a few animals. All of these animals seem to be more intelligent, and thus it is possible that as an animal became intelligent enough to ignore its instincts, the ones that thought it was fun reproduced more (since there was a lack of birth control).
It seems like a pretty obvious answer to me, since evolution is based on who can have the most offspring, the more the incentive to have more sex, the more likely the mutation that gives that incentive will be passed on.
But i'm waiting to hear, "the big bang didn't have pleasure, so how did it evolve."
Ok, I haven't read through much of the thread but has anyone mentioned that pleasure from sex is only experienced by a few animals. All of these animals seem to be more intelligent, and thus it is possible that as an animal became intelligent enough to ignore its instincts, the ones that thought it was fun reproduced more (since there was a lack of birth control).
It seems like a pretty obvious answer to me, since evolution is based on who can have the most offspring, the more the incentive to have more sex, the more likely the mutation that gives that incentive will be passed on.
But i'm waiting to hear, "the big bang didn't have pleasure, so how did it evolve."
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Nathan David
Well-Known Member
Not to mention sex is not confined to animals. Plants reproduce sexually and I'm confident plants don't feel pleasure. The first organisms to reproduce sexually did not have the capacity feel pleasure either.
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The theory of evolution does not say anything about this, nor is it relevant. What came first? prolly both at the same time. yoink.Intrepid99 said:
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Your posts are pretty much the same. You keep asking the same question, and keep handwaving awnsers.Intrepid99 said:
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Freodin
Devout believer in a theologically different God
Is that so difficult?
[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] have a biological function - they are not there for pleasure only.
(Don´t ask me to describe the function of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] - I´m not a biologist, and would not be able to explain it properly)
Now pleasure is an organic reaction to something "good" (here in a biological sense): it makes the organism strive for such a stimulus.
"Good taste" makes you strive for a certain food - "bad taste" makes you want to avoid it.
And the pleasure from an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] makes you strive to reproduce - an evolutionary advantage.
The "desire" of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] can from the recognition that such a "pleasure" can be actively sought for.
So first came the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] - then the pleasure - then the desire.
Question answered?
[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] have a biological function - they are not there for pleasure only.
(Don´t ask me to describe the function of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] - I´m not a biologist, and would not be able to explain it properly)
Now pleasure is an organic reaction to something "good" (here in a biological sense): it makes the organism strive for such a stimulus.
"Good taste" makes you strive for a certain food - "bad taste" makes you want to avoid it.
And the pleasure from an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] makes you strive to reproduce - an evolutionary advantage.
The "desire" of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] can from the recognition that such a "pleasure" can be actively sought for.
So first came the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] - then the pleasure - then the desire.
Question answered?
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How do you evolve desire? By reproductive success.
Take the desire to eat, fueled by an empty stomach. Those organisms that are not impelled to eat die of starvation. Same thing with sex, those that are not impelled to have sex do not pass down their genes to the next generation, and so the lineage of sexually apathetic individuals are bred out.
That, and desire is closely related to things under the control of gene expression, namely hormones. Desire is not a purely psychological emotion, but a psychosomatic drive that is written in our genes. For example, dairy farmers rely on in vitro fertilization. One of the steps in this procedure is causing the cow to ovulate. This is done by injecting hormones directly into the bloodstream. When this is done, it is very common for cows to mimic sexual acts on each other in the absence of a bull. Their desire is directly affected by the hormones in their body. Since DNA and genes are under the influence of evolutionary mechanisms (mutation and natural selection) and a desire to reproduce is obviously very advantageous, it is easy to conclude that desire for sexual copulation is something bred into us.
Next, let's look at the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] by using the analogy of addictive substances. Take cocaine, for example. Cocaine messes with your dopamine receptors, which causes a feeling of well being and euphoria, but in doing so the brain becomes reliant on this constant stimulation and craves the next 'hit'. The same brain activity and dopamine responses have been observed in sexual addicts. In fact, an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] releases these naturally made opiates into your blood stream, and the body can become addicted to this constant stimulation. Evolution locked onto a very simple idea, addict the body to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] through the use of chemical stimulation and in some cases addiction. In simpler organisms, such as corrals or barnacles, releasing sperm and eggs is a simple chemical cue, nothing that special. However, sexual selection and the loss of simple chemical cues required an added mechanism. And so we see the development of sexual "pleasure", with desire being controlled in a very similar fashion (hormones) as seen in simpler organisms.
It really isn't that hard to explain if you understand physiology and the influence that chemicals have on our emotions and desires.
Take the desire to eat, fueled by an empty stomach. Those organisms that are not impelled to eat die of starvation. Same thing with sex, those that are not impelled to have sex do not pass down their genes to the next generation, and so the lineage of sexually apathetic individuals are bred out.
That, and desire is closely related to things under the control of gene expression, namely hormones. Desire is not a purely psychological emotion, but a psychosomatic drive that is written in our genes. For example, dairy farmers rely on in vitro fertilization. One of the steps in this procedure is causing the cow to ovulate. This is done by injecting hormones directly into the bloodstream. When this is done, it is very common for cows to mimic sexual acts on each other in the absence of a bull. Their desire is directly affected by the hormones in their body. Since DNA and genes are under the influence of evolutionary mechanisms (mutation and natural selection) and a desire to reproduce is obviously very advantageous, it is easy to conclude that desire for sexual copulation is something bred into us.
Next, let's look at the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] by using the analogy of addictive substances. Take cocaine, for example. Cocaine messes with your dopamine receptors, which causes a feeling of well being and euphoria, but in doing so the brain becomes reliant on this constant stimulation and craves the next 'hit'. The same brain activity and dopamine responses have been observed in sexual addicts. In fact, an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] releases these naturally made opiates into your blood stream, and the body can become addicted to this constant stimulation. Evolution locked onto a very simple idea, addict the body to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] through the use of chemical stimulation and in some cases addiction. In simpler organisms, such as corrals or barnacles, releasing sperm and eggs is a simple chemical cue, nothing that special. However, sexual selection and the loss of simple chemical cues required an added mechanism. And so we see the development of sexual "pleasure", with desire being controlled in a very similar fashion (hormones) as seen in simpler organisms.
It really isn't that hard to explain if you understand physiology and the influence that chemicals have on our emotions and desires.
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What's the need for a new food source when the old one still exists? Yet bacteria have evolved the ability to utilise all sorts of food sources, because it gives them an advantage over the ones that can't. Studies on sexual reproduction have shown that it also confers an advantage over asexual reproduction in some cases, particularly in terms of fighting the effects of parasites.
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Concerning the expected circularity:
(One has said):I'd say the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] came before the desire for one
Then explain how [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] came first, when every step of the progression toward it is contingent upon the anticipation of it.
Concerning the intellectual camp:
You tell us that we evolved [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] in order to procreate. Sort of a matter of perceived efficiency.. survival.. self-preservation of the species. Eh....right.
So we evolved a pleasure that is higher than ourselves. Kind of like pulling yourself off the ground by your own bootstraps. I get it. Not.
And since when is pleasure the domain of the intellect? Since when is logic and preception the driver of physiological and emotional desire?
No. You all suffer from a self-enforced divorcement from reality: you examine life as though it were an economic equation.
Tell us, do you love your moms because it is necessary to support your parental heritage in order to keep society's fabric together, or do you just love her because she's your mom?
Time for you to stop playing android, and start to be human beings. Or life will pass you by in your silliness.
(One has said):I'd say the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] came before the desire for one
Then explain how [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] came first, when every step of the progression toward it is contingent upon the anticipation of it.
Concerning the intellectual camp:
You tell us that we evolved [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] in order to procreate. Sort of a matter of perceived efficiency.. survival.. self-preservation of the species. Eh....right.
So we evolved a pleasure that is higher than ourselves. Kind of like pulling yourself off the ground by your own bootstraps. I get it. Not.
And since when is pleasure the domain of the intellect? Since when is logic and preception the driver of physiological and emotional desire?
No. You all suffer from a self-enforced divorcement from reality: you examine life as though it were an economic equation.
Tell us, do you love your moms because it is necessary to support your parental heritage in order to keep society's fabric together, or do you just love her because she's your mom?
Time for you to stop playing android, and start to be human beings. Or life will pass you by in your silliness.
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Valkhorn
the Antifloccinaucinihilipili ficationist
- Jun 15, 2004
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How come it seems YEC's are obsessed with sex, the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], etc. around here?
Men, lock up your daughters...
*rolls eyes*
Men, lock up your daughters...
*rolls eyes*
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