The Question Abortion Advocates Won’t Answer

[SPF]

Life = thoughts and feelings.

According to who? Can you cite your sources for that definition?

New International Version
As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. James 2:26 death is the sepration of the spirit and body, then life must be the joining of the spirit and body. When does that take place When does the spirit coming into the body?

Since we know biologically that a new, unique human being comes into existence at fertilization, common sense would suggest our spirit comes into our body at fertilization. It’s a simultaneous event.

 

[SPF]

Hebrews 10:5 What does this mean.
New International Version
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;

Was Christ in the body BEFORE or AFTER the body was prepared?

Hebrews 10:5 Parallel: Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Human development takes roughly 25 years, beginning with fertilization. So unless you’re attempting to say that Christ didn’t inhabit a human body until it was fully developed (which would raise some serious theological issues), then I would assume Jesus was Jesus, with both natures fully intact at fertilization.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Icedragon, it is crystal clear you refuse to accept the fact that you can be wrong about anything. If you're an adult with a high school diploma and not autistic, you should know everything about how humansc are fertilized, when new human beings come into existence, and that messages are clear without any specific words and phrases. All middle schools and high schools must teach life science, sex education, reading, and English.

 

[GodLovesCats]

In case you are truly incapable of understanding how to read the Bible - and I am not assuming this - you can go to the Christian Scriptures section of the General Theology forum and ask people there what some words and phrases mean in confusing verses (without specifically asking anyone when life begins).

 

[GodLovesCats]

Iceberg, I will keep asking you incessantly why you are continually unwilling to accept biologically proven, extensively studied facts, which are written by medical doctors and biologists with Ph.D degrees, if you're still unable and unwilling to disprove the conclusions of their research and decades of experiences.

Stop telling SPF just because he is correcting you, his true statements are attacks.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Human development takes roughly 25 years, beginning with fertilization. So unless you’re attempting to say that Christ didn’t inhabit a human body until it was fully developed (which would raise some serious theological issues), then I would assume Jesus was Jesus, with both natures fully intact at fertilization.

that is exactly what i am saying

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Iceberg, I will keep asking you incessantly why you are continually unwilling to accept biologically proven, extensively studied facts, which are written by medical doctors and biologists with Ph.D degrees, if you're still unable and unwilling to disprove the conclusions of their research and decades of experiences.

Stop telling SPF just because he is correcting you, his true statements are attacks.

because all of those things have to be explained and the meaning assigned. that is called an interpretation. I disagree with the interpretation. I do not disagree with facts, i disagree with the meaning assigned to those facts. that is called critical thinking. you should try it some time.

 

[SPF]

that is exactly what i am saying

I'm confused. You're saying that Jesus didn't possess a human body until the body was about 25 years old? How did that work? The Holy Spirit impregnated Mary so that she gave birth to a son that didn't have a sin nature, yet it wasn't actually Jesus until Jesus came down and somehow possessed the body once the not-Jesus, yet sinless human was 25 years old?

You're going to need to do better than 1 sentence responses.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

According to who? Can you cite your sources for that definition?

you need an authority to cite what is common knowledge. all of those AUTHORITIES you like to quote are human being who have to assign meaning to the facts. that is why you have a problem with my view of scripture the meaning you place on texts like Ps 139, and Jer 1:3 is that they are alive, they have feelings and awareness, I do not place that meaning on the text because No where dose scripture say they have feeling and awareness at conception. that come when the soul enters the body. As to where I got the meaning. The Lord himself gave the definition to me. When a person dies they have no thought or feeling. which begs the question at some point they must have thought and feeling must appear. at that point is when the person become alive. the only time you have that is when you have a BODY,SPIRIT,SOUL.[/QUOTE]

 

[SPF]

The Lord himself gave the definition to me.

So your definition of "life", which contradicts everything we know scientifically, and isn't actually even provided to us in Scripture, is true because "God told you so". I'm sorry, but that really just doesn't work, and you can't expect people to take you seriously if that's what you're going to say.

When a person dies they have no thought or feeling. which begs the question at some point they must have thought and feeling must appear. at that point is when the person become alive.

Can you explain to me how there can be a growing and developing human being that is dead? Do dead things grow and develop? Because that is exactly what a human being begins doing at fertilization.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Because all of those things have to be explained and the meaning assigned. That is called an interpretation. I disagree with the interpretation. I do not disagree with facts. i disagree with the meaning assigned to those facts. That is called critical thinking. You should try it some time.

Agreeing with facts and disagreeing with interpretaitons is exactly the opposite of what you are saying, so you have some explaining to do. The Bible verses you referred to are interpreted; conclusions of research by women's health specialists and zoologists are not. Critical thinking is what college educated experts do to not only learn but prove facts about human reproduction.

You need an authority to cite what is common knowledge. All of those authorities you like to quote are human being who have to assign meaning to the facts.

Now you totally contradict yourself and prove SPF's point because he copied the entire official job titles of scientific authorities, not just their quotes. You can clearly see all of them are extremely well educated so it is impossible to deny they are legitimate authorities on the subject.

That is why you have a problem with my view of Scripture. The meaning you place on texts like Ps 139 and Jer 1:3 is that they are alive; they have feelings and awareness. I do not place that meaning on the text because nowhere does Scripture say they have feeling and awareness at conception. That comes when the soul enters the body. As to where I got the meaning: the Lord Himself gave the definition to me. When a person dies they have no thought or feeling. Which begs the question at some point they must have thought and feeling must appear. At that point is when the person become alive. The only time you have that is when you have a BODY,SPIRIT,SOUL.

Here you admit the BIBLE is subject to interpretations that people assign meanings to.

Nowhere does Scripture say feeling and awereness are the criteria for getting a soul or that life begins when there is a body.

If feeling and awareness were required to be a person, nobody would be a person because we have no feeling or awareness when we sleep!

 

[GodLovesCats]

Iceberg, did you get sex education in high school? Did you take any biology classes? Do you know what a zygote, oocyst, blastocyst, and embryo are? The most basic information about human reproduction would be enough for you to totally understand a zygote is a new human being.

I continue to wait for a logical response that does not contradict human biology.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Iceberg, did you get sex education in high school? Did you take any biology classes? Do you know what a zygote, oocyst, blastocyst, and embryo are? The most basic information about human reproduction would be enough for you to totally understand a zygote is a new human being.

I continue to wait for a logical response that does not contradict human biology.

Catboy, are you attempting to be condecending by refering to me as Iceberg? or are you refering to someone else.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish. PS. 146:4 if the thoughts "perish" or end then they must begin, when do they begin?

 

[Adventist Heretic]

When Paul refers to spirit,soul and body, what is he referring to here?
1 Thessalonians 5:23 - And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Catboy, are you attempting to be condecending by refering to me as Iceberg? or are you refering to someone else.

Why do you call me Catboy? I am a 42-year old woman.

You are wrong. I forgot your username is Icedragon. My mistake.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

2 Corinthians 4: 16 - 2 Corinthians 5:10 - Faith in the Lord
16 We never give up. Our bodies are gradually dying, but we ourselves are being made stronger each day. 17 These little troubles are getting us ready for an eternal glory that will make all our troubles seem like nothing. 18 Things that are seen don’t last forever, but things that are not seen are eternal. That’s why we keep our minds on the things that cannot be seen.

Chapter 5

Our bodies are like tents that we live in here on earth. But when these tents are destroyed, we know that God will give each of us a place to live. These homes will not be buildings that someone has made, but they are in heaven and will last forever. 2 While we are here on earth, we sigh because we want to live in that heavenly home. 3 We want to put it on like clothes and not be naked.

4 These tents we now live in are like a heavy burden, and we groan. But we don’t do this just because we want to leave these bodies that will die. It is because we want to change them for bodies that will never die. 5 God is the one who makes all of this possible. He has given us his Spirit to make us certain that he will do it. 6 So always be cheerful!

As long as we are in these bodies, we are away from the Lord. 7 But we live by faith, not by what we see. 8 We should be cheerful, because we would rather leave these bodies and be at home with the Lord. 9 But whether we are at home with the Lord or away from him, we still try our best to please him. 10 After all, Christ will judge each of us for the good or the bad that we do while living in these bodies.


Paul refers to the body as a tent. We can leave the tent and be with the Lord. QUESTION: When did we move into the tent? Was it at conception or was it later? If you say conception how do explain that there is no tent or body for the soul to move into? the tent has to be set up first.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Why do you call me Catboy? I am a 42-year old woman.

You are wrong. I forgot your username is Icedragon. My mistake.

because you called me iceberg 2 times. Just returning the favor. doen't feel so good dose it.

 

[GodLovesCats]

When Paul refers to spirit, soul and body, what is he referring to here?

1 Thessalonians 5:23 - And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul referred to people who have already sinned and chosen to follow Jesus Christ as their Savior.

 

[GodLovesCats]

2 Corinthians uses an analogy. Tents can and will be destroyed. Chapter 5 explains when we die, our own bodies will be moved from a home on Earth to a much better home in heaven. It is all about when we live on Earth and die. Is "on Earth" the mother's uterus? I highly doubt the Greeks were thinking about that because it was written almost 2000 years ago.