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The purpose of adhering to gender roles

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CreedIsChrist

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Me and pretty much the rest of the civilized/sane world lol

Civilized people don't run out on their familys.



I don't refute scripture; how YOU interpret anything is up to you; however, this may or may not reflect well upon your capacity to understand what it means to be 'normal' in a society today.

So your basically gonna ignore the verses and cop out. Ignorance is bliss.


You are being dishonest now. It was never adultry to disagree marrying your brothers wife, however it was deemed as not supporting your tribe and your inhertence. How later it became prohibited. Alot of the Law was written because of the hardness of the Jews hearts.

And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it is abhorrent: he hath uncovered his brother's nakedness; they shall be childless. - Leviticus 20:21

'You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother's wife; it is your brother's nakedness - Leviticus 18:16


Now the word "brother" we see in Deuteronomy 25:5 actually means their fellow hebrews. As the marrying of close cousins was forbidden in the bible. In fact the word for brother used in Deuteronomy 25:5 means literally next kinsman and was used in order to keep inheritence within the hebrews and not become impure by marrying their pagan neighbors. Again the reason of the law was to keep up the distinction of the tribes of Israel and inheritences.

The law also talks about giving your wife a bill of divorce if you wanted to divorce. But again Jesus says "At the begining, it was not so". If you knew about the survival of the hebrews during the OT and the keeping of their bloodline and inheritence you will see why this was commanded in the law.

The Law permitted a wife to be divorced, not as though it were just absolutely speaking, but on account of the Jews' hardness of heart, as Our Lord declared (Matthew 19:8).



I agree violence is a no no. But then again domestic violence has increased a great deal since no fault divorce has legalized. Also child abuse is the single highest in single mother households.


Oh, poor kid can dish it out but can't take it? Heres a tissue.

WIth the current state of marriage today I can see why some spouses goto substances. People with your ideals make familys sterile, unloving and selfish. Instead of mothers bonding with their children daycare if suggested and the public schools raise them.

And personally being married to a staunch feminist would drive any man through the wall. Why do you think most of them have been divorced 3-4 times or have become lesbian??! lol. Look at Freidans and Steinems marriage/divorce record. Their failures when it comes to family ethic and thats why their proproganda is so dangerous.


Of course Id make it more difficult to get divorce. I wouldn't get rid of divorce entirely due to the people who really need it, but no-fault divorce must go. Thats what it means, divorce without any fault of the other party. It needs to go just like Roe Wade and gay marriage needs to go. We as a people need to respect and value marriage more than we do.

And yes a woman can have a career. But rather it would be better suited to say, a family buisness where she is able to be near her children. If the family is struggling then yes she would need to work, but work should always be number 3 or 4 while God,family and children are always at first. Too many times feminism puts the career role above the family role. This idea has let to too many so called "career women" neglecting their children.

A woman being single is fine. As long as she is doing it for the right reasons(to live as a devout). However many women, unless they have really strong faith, tend to burn with desire, and thus for those women it would better for them to be married as the apostle Paul says.
 
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mpok1519

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okay, so CIC set some standards for all you women to obey

1) your career MUST be oriented around the home, like a home sewing operation, or something like Ebay, which you must be able to do while wathcing your kids.

2)he would make it more difficult to get divorced, BUT, not more difficult to get married. strange

3)any single woman must NEVER, EVER, have sex....ever.....


good thing youre not in charge, otherwise we tyrannical fascism would ru rampant and unchecked.

Good thing theres people like me to put those tyrants in their place by "laying the smack down" as SoF would say.

your opinions are welcome, but mostly unappreciated.

Also, apologise for iinferring my father's alcohlim was induced by my mother's feminism.
 
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mpok1519

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Funny how 'brother' can translate over the millenia into somehting TOTALLY different.

This is why the Bible is constantly translated into different things ALL THE TIME.

which is hwy there are many denominations.

which is why there is no such thing as "A True Christian"


someone once said

"your perception is your God"

or

Rage against the machine said

"Fear is your only God"

life now makes sense
 
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cantata

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Sorry to be stupid for a moment here, but I spy a problem with CreedIsChrist's glorious vision for a gender-bifurcated world. What do we do about girly jobs if women are not supposed to work?

Does CreedIsChrist really want the men to be nurses, midwives, florists, childcare professionals, interior decorators, hairdressers, makeup artists, personal shoppers, fashion designers, and seamstresses, and to take on all the female roles in plays, films, dance productions, &c.?
 
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cantata

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p.s.

raving left wingists like mpok or cantanta.

*rolls around laughing*

You wouldn't know a "raving left wingist" if she bit you on the nose. And you clearly don't know me, or you could have managed to spell my name correctly.
 
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CreedIsChrist

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again the thousands of denominations you see today didnt start till after Martin Luther. And it wasn't until 1930 that all these new denominations you see today like the unitarians started actually denying the important core principles of the Gospel.

Also I could give you the verse of Jesus prohibiting divorce from all bible versions, and still yet they would still say the same message.


I tell you that whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
I can guarantee that whoever divorces his wife for any reason other than her unfaithfulness is committing adultery if he marries another woman."

King James Bible
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

American King James Version
And I say to you, Whoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, commits adultery: and whoever marries her which is put away does commit adultery.

American Standard Version
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that marrieth her when she is put away committeth adultery.

Bible in Basic English
And I say to you, Whoever puts away his wife for any other cause than the loss of her virtue, and takes another, is a false husband: and he who takes her as his wife when she is put away, is no true husband to her.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And I say to you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that shall marry her that is put away, committeth adultery.

Darby Bible Translation
But I say unto you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, not for fornication, and shall marry another, commits adultery; and he who marries one put away commits adultery.

English Revised Version
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that marrieth her when she is put away committeth adultery.

Webster's Bible Translation
And I say to you, Whoever shall put away his wife, except for lewdness, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoever marrieth her who is put away, committeth adultery.

Weymouth New Testament
And I tell you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except her unfaithfulness, and marries another woman, commits adultery."

World English Bible
I tell you that whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and he who marries her when she is divorced commits adultery." Young's Literal Translation
'And I say to you, that, whoever may put away his wife, if not for whoredom, and may marry another, doth commit adultery; and he who did marry her that hath been put away, doth commit adultery.'


but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. (NASB ©1995)
Matthew 19:9 "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."

Mark 10:11 And He said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her;

Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.

1 Corinthians 7:11 (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife. (NASB ©1995)




These are all the major translations. Tell me which one contradicts the other please ...this is one reason why the "millions of translations" is a bad thing to try to fall on when arguing against christianity, when in reality there is barely any difference between them and the core message is still the same. God is able to preserve his word, even if there are tons of translations.

Funny how 'brother' can translate over the millenia into somehting TOTALLY different.

actually no, THe hebrew word for brother in that specific verse in deuteronomy means "next kinsman". I suggest you start studying hebrew before making those assumptions since I doubt you know hebrew.
 
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CreedIsChrist

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Well a married woman should make an effort to make her home and family the center of her life. Work should always be for the family. Gardening, baby sitting, helping her husband with parts of his job when he gets home, growing food, other home buisnesses, etc. Its not like im prohibiting a person from going to to get a job, what Im saying it that it shouldn't be the center of her lifestyle. Many career oriented women tend to neglect their familys, we see this more in high population citys were feminism is more rampant and women are less family orientated. Im not saying women can't have jobs, Im saying im against todays feminism that put the career and job of the woman above her children and husband. It encourages women to be selfish and self centered. The western society has enough of women like that, we don't need more.




As far as more difficult to get married I do think people need to be more cautious in who they marry. But with things like no fault divorce people are more inclined to get with the wrong person because they know it would be easy to get rid of them later on. However if divorce was more restricted people would make a much better effort in finding the right partner rather than just jumping in. However if there is a pregnancy, they should get married, for the sake of the children, they need to suck it up, act mature, and learn to get along with each other.

If a woman is single, then yes should should try to stay celibate. Sex outside of marriage is fornication. God condemns fornication. Fornication also leads to children born out of wedlock, abortion, and deadbeat mothers with no father there. If she cannot and she burns with lust and desire, then she should get married. As Paul says it is better to get married rather than burn with desire. However a woman who is able to control herself and has strong faith is good to be single, because she is able to give her life fully to God as a devout.

And how can you lay the "smack down" when all you do is post ad-hominems? You still haven't posted one shred of evidence or link that says divorce is for the better or even cared to bring up the verses I have supplied to you. Avoiding the question and darting around the corner with ad-hominems dosen't really say much about your knowledge.
 
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Well, there would have to be a man-ification of those professions, for instance, Hairdressing could be melded with the manly profession of lumberjackery, and the lumberjackoffs could teach the hairdressers to conduct their work using those big manly chainsaws. The various institutions that you mentioned could be manified through the introduction of manly locker and shower rooms, where the manly male nurses could shower together and slap each other on their pert buttocks after a hard day’s labour and objectify women and stuff…


I’ll be in my bunk.

Seriously though, is it just my imagination, or would the civic and economic life of Creed is Christ’s dystopia be quaintly homoerotic?
 
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Braunwyn

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Sorry to be stupid for a moment here, but I spy a problem with CreedIsChrist's glorious vision for a gender-bifurcated world. What do we do about girly jobs if women are not supposed to work?
I highly doubt CIC would take issue with this.

Well a married woman should make an effort to make her home and family the center of her life. Work should always be for the family. Gardening, baby sitting, helping her husband with parts of his job when he gets home,
Parts of his job when he gets home? What does that mean?

...other home buisnesses, etc. Its not like im prohibiting a person from going to to get a job, what Im saying it that it shouldn't be the center of her lifestyle.
You're just advocating what your wife does because it's what you know. From what I gather based on what you put as your occupation, you're both involved in your home business. Not all people can do this. Not everybody wants to. I think it's fine for you guys if it makes you happy but we're not all clones of Mr and Mrs CIC.

Many career oriented women tend to neglect their familys, we see this more in high population citys were feminism is more rampant and women are less family orientated.
Actually, career men tend to ignore their families while career women take it all on and they need help from their husbands that they don't get. This is not the case for all, but most.
 
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PassionFruit

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Actually, career men tend to ignore their families while career women take it all on and they need help from their husbands that they don't get. This is not the case for all, but most.

Oh but wait, it's alright for men to ignore their families and make their careers the center of their lives, but if a woman does this she's being selfish.

Parts of his job when he gets home? What does that mean?

I don't know, but I think it implies that a woman has to act as a helper to her husband. Her life and her identity is centered around her husband and her family. She has no identity of her own, but hey why should she?
 
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Braunwyn

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Oh but wait, it's alright for men to ignore their families and make their careers the center of their lives, but if a woman does this she's being selfish.

Men like CIC have such low expectations of themselves and such elevated expectations of women. It's pretty odd.

I don't know, but I think it implies that a woman has to act as a helper to her husband. Her life and her identity is centered around her husband and her family. She has no identity of her own, but hey why should she?
Again, what in the world is he doing that is so complicated that he needs help with? His wife works, she takes care of the home, the children, and him. What's left that he needs help with?
 
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mpok1519

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so, lemmie get this straight CIC...

even if my wife is violent and makes threats against my very life, its immoral and damning to divorce her?

Even if my wife hits my children and beats them to a bloody pulp, I STILL CANT DIVORCE HER? If I beat the crap out of my wife, she can't divorce me?

lol thats insanity! Pure, insanity, reaching to the far depths of abyssal instability

I'm sure God would want anyone to retreat from a hazardous relationship.

Suck it up? Y'mean make the kids watch a battle royale everynight before they go to sleep? ooooh yeah, thats a real good plan. lol

You make it seem that ALL single-parent homes are broken and impoverished. Stop pepetuating this; everyone know that not all single-parent homes are broken homes. MANY single-parent homes are successful and motivated.

its funny how people make the Bible seem sexist....

but we see through this bigotry.

abusive relationship = GET OUT NOW
 
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OphidiaPhile

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Creed,

To repeat ke1985's questions, Do you agree that all women should remain silent in the churches?

You have been dodging this question.
Thanks for bringing that back up I also want to hear his answer.
 
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gwenmead

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Braunwyn said:
Men like CIC have such low expectations of themselves and such elevated expectations of women. It's pretty odd.

Not so very odd, if you keep in mind that it's ultimately self-serving. Or, well, male-serving, really.

I can't say that I entirely blame sexist men for holding the attitudes they do, though. Being on top is a pretty sweet deal, after all. I'd probably howl in outrage about it too, if I were top dog and thought my position was being threatened.

Seems a normal response to me. Misguided, but normal.

Dunno why they worry. When the revolution comes, we'll still let 'em vote.
 
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mpok1519

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Creed,

To repeat ke1985's questions, Do you agree that all women should remain silent in the churches?

You have been dodging this question.


Ill venture a guess; a woman can say whatever she wants, as long as that whatever is something a man(her husband, ideally) would say.
 
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Oneofthediaspora

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I wonder when it'll occur to certain men that it's in their own best interests to embrace the goals of feminism?

Could you tell me what the goals of feminism actually are?
I've heard a number of conflicting views in my life.

(I'm not being sarcastic here; I'm genuinely interested).
 
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PassionFruit

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Could you tell me what the goals of feminism actually are?
I've heard a number of conflicting views in my life.

(I'm not being sarcastic here; I'm genuinely interested).

Yeah there are many conflicting views of what the goals of feminism are. Generally it is about equality between the sexes. However, another goal of feminism isn't only about gender equality, it could include racial equality as being a goal. Perhaps cantata can explain it better than I can.

But then feminism isn't always political, it gets into issues of questioning gender roles, questiong and criticizing what's considered masculine and feminine, etc. and that falls into the category of feminist thoeries.

But to me, the goal is to free people from confined social roles and allow them to be who they are, not how soceity wants them to be based on their sex.
 
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