The Punishment of the Ungodly

[keras]

Ezekiel 35:1-5 Look toward all the lands of the Edomites and pronounce judgement upon them. The Lord says: I shall stretch out My hand to strike your land, I will reduce it to a desolate waste and your towns will be ruined. Then you will know that I am the Lord, for you have kept up an ancient feud and shed the blood of the Israelites by warfare, during the time of their punishment. [by exile]

Ezekiel 35:6-9 Therefore as I live, says the Lord: I shall make blood your destiny, since you do not hate killing and death, that will come upon you. Your land and cities will become desolate wastes forever and no one will travel there. I will cover the hills and valleys with the dead, your towns will not be inhabited. Isaiah 17:1

Ezekiel 35:10-14 You say: the two nations and two countries [The ten tribes of Israel and the two tribes of Judah] will be our possession, even though the Lord has been there. Therefore your anger and jealousy will be repaid, for I will do to the whole of Edom what you have done in your hatred for My people. I shall be known among you - for the way I judge you, you will know that the Lord has punished you. [by the means of a CME sunstrike, Isaiah 30:26-30] I have heard all your blasphemous talk about the Land of Israel, saying: the Land is ours to occupy. You have boasted and spoken against Me without restraint. So, now I will destroy you., while the whole world rejoices, As you rejoiced at the inheritance of the House of Israel, when it was desolated, so I will do to you, all your lands will be devastated. Hosea 4:1-3
Reference: REB, NIV, KJV. Some verse abridged

The Edomites can be identified as those nations and entities - that hate My [faithful Christian] peoples and have kept up their ancient feud with Israel, those peoples who currently occupy virtually all of the Holy Land area and who now threaten the Jewish State of Israel with annihilation. Psalms 83:13-15, describes how the Lord’s Day of wrath will deal to them, as they commence their attack. Isaiah 30:26, Psalms 7:12-16, Isaiah 8:9-10, Obadiah 1:15, Micah 4:11-12

Psalms 83:12 informs us that the goal of this alliance is total possession of all the holy Land. This is exactly as the Charters of Hamas and Fatah state; they are not interested in a two State solution, all the Jews must either leave or be killed. THEY love killing and death. Ezekiel 35:6
NOTE: that the State of Israel is mainly populated with peoples who are Edomite’s by descent or by action and many Prophesies tell of their virtual demise, as the entire Middle East is cleared and cleansed. Zephaniah 1:14-18

Many people believe that the next prophesied event in our world will be the Gog/ Magog invasion. Others say it’s the tribulation – preceded by a rapture of the church. Some think the Return of Jesus will be next. That it will be none of these is told to us in the Book of the prophet Ezekiel, chapters 34, 35, 36, 37, 38 & 39 they all speak about the Israelites, who are now all of God’s faithful people; being gathered out of the nations and settled into all of the Holy Land.

Those chapters are written in a fairly obvious sequence of events. Ezekiel 34:12-13 ‘I will rescue My sheep [people] from where they were scattered in the Day of cloud and darkness, I will lead them out of the nations and bring them home to their own country’. Amos 5:18, Isaiah 13:9-10
Then comes Ezekiel 35, where it is explained how this gathering and resettlement can take place.

This attack by the peoples surrounding Israel will result in their destruction, but the Bible prophecies also say that Judah too, will be judged at this time and ‘only a holy remnant will survive’. The Land will not be polluted by radiation and as the sunstrike the Lord will use quickly passes, the vegetation soon regenerates. Psalms 68:9, Ezekiel 36:8 You, Land of Israel, grow your trees and bear fruit, for the homecoming of My people is near.
This opens the way for all the faithful Christian peoples to emigrate to their heritage.

Later will come the invasion by Gog/Magog – a different list of peoples and nations. They attack the peoples ‘gathered from the nations and living in a land recently recovered from ruin’. Ezekiel 38:8 The total wipe out of Gog and his horde, is ‘to show Myself Holy and make Myself known to many peoples’. Joel 2:20, Ezekiel 38:23-26

The rest of the prophecies will then unfold – the rise of the Anti Christ, the Tribulation and then, the culmination of the age: the Return of Jesus for His 1000 year reign. Then – the final Judgment and Eternity.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

since you do not hate killing and death, that will come upon you.

Does that apply to the right to bear arms?

 

[eclipsenow]

The Edomites can be identified as those nations and entities - that hate My [faithful Christian] peoples and have kept up their ancient feud with Israel, those peoples who currently occupy virtually all of the Holy Land area and who now threaten the Jewish State of Israel with annihilation. Psalms 83:13-15, describes how the Lord’s Day of wrath will deal to them, as they commence their attack. Isaiah 30:26, Psalms 7:12-16, Isaiah 8:9-10, Obadiah 1:15, Micah 4:11-12

I know it's all so much more exciting if we try to make it all about us and our times - but what if it's not?

What if Ezekiel's message was - I dunno - actually not about us? What if - just a crazy idea I know - Ezekiel wasn't writing to titillate us today in our narcissism - but was mainly writing to explain the glory of God and how God's even older prophecies were going to be fulfilled to Israel in his day!? At least some of them anyway. Reading. It's this thing we do with the context in mind. Context: it's this thing engineers often miss in their diagrammatic approach to life.

On and look at the layout! Huge prophesies about Israel ARE fulfilled right in the middle of the book! Check out the flow.

Chapters 1 to 11 are Accusations against Israel:– the tribe of Judah still back in Jerusalem. Ezekiel enacts bizarre street theatre. There’s also a virtual tour of the old temple and the awful idolatry and crimes Judah was getting up to at that very moment. Then God’s chariot throne leaves the temple where his people were – and heads out to join the minority of captives in Babylon. Everyone back home has been abandoned! It’s an awful vision, but also comforting. God will be with them even in their captivity. A remnant will return

Chapters 12 to 24 are announcements of God’s Judgements on Israel - prophesies about what is JUST ABOUT TO HAPPEN! These are dressed up in parable and allegory. In between them Ezekiel acts like a lawyer making the case that the rest of Israel will soon be judged. It is God’s GOODNESS that demands he keep his Judgments prophesied so long ago in Deuteronomy.

Chapters 25 to 32 are prophesies against the nations – Philistia, Edom, Moab, Ammon, EGYPT and TYRE! They view themselves as gods, and must be corrected. They will face the real God’s justice at the hands of Babylon. When did this occur? As Babylon expanded across the ancient world in the 7th and 6th centuries BC. Chapters 25 to 32 are FULFILLED!
https://www.christianforums.com/att...356329/?hash=6f449efaee1c104094e2a331e6ea78fa

Chapter 33 - FULFILMENT!
A refugee arrives to inform them that Babylon has taken the rest of the city. The temple has fallen. The city is destroyed. It had happened. Just as God said in Chapter 12:-​

"21 The word of the Lord came to me: 22 “Son of man, what is this proverb you have in the land of Israel: ‘The days go by and every vision comes to nothing’? 23 Say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am going to put an end to this proverb, and they will no longer quote it in Israel.’ Say to them, ‘The days are near when every vision will be fulfilled. 24 For there will be no more false visions or flattering divinations among the people of Israel. 25 But I the Lord will speak what I will, and it shall be fulfilled without delay. For in your days, you rebellious people, I will fulfil whatever I say, declares the Sovereign Lord.’”
26 The word of the Lord came to me: 27 “Son of man, the Israelites are saying, ‘The vision he sees is for many years from now, and he prophesies about the distant future.’ 28 “Therefore say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: None of my words will be delayed any longer; whatever I say will be fulfilled, declares the Sovereign Lord.’”
God’s prophesies across the whole first half of the book were NOW FULFILLED! Israel was dead. The horror! The horror! God’s judgment had fallen.

Chapters 34 to 37: But remember the end of Chapter 11! There is hope. One day God is going to resurrect this dead nation! A new David (Jesus) will bring a new people of God to life. With a new heart! Just like the promise at the end of Deuteronomy. They’ll have new soft hearts. Then there’s the vision of the valley of dry bones – and new humans – a re-created nation is alive! It’s a new act of creation. So we see this fulfilled in history as Persia lets the Jews return home to setup the scene for Jesus to arrive. He then dies in our place, rises again to show our punishment is paid, and gives us the Holy Spirit to trust in him and being the journey of building those new hearts!

Chapters 38 to 39: God will defeat all the evil in the nations. Gog is from Genesis 10 – a powerful enemy nation – and the way Ezekiel describes Gog is as representative of ALL the enemy nations against God. Gog has bits and pieces of the descriptions of Egypt and Tyre and Ammon etc. Bits of them all, wrapped up in the one awful representation of rebellion. And he gets judged so thoroughly it requires 3 symbols: earthquake, fire, and being left in the fields to be eaten by animals for 7 years. These are NOT literal – as just the massive earthquake is so utterly destructive that no body would be left to be burned, and the fire so destructive no body would be left to rot in the field. It’s Ezekiel’s vivid symbolism describing the awful judgement against the nations that will fall when the Lord returns.
(It’s why the kings and princes cry out in horror when they see the FACE OF GOD in Revelation 6! NOT a CME!)
The rest of the book explores the SUPER-TEMPLE and the land becoming a new creation. Ezekiel’s heavenly temple is OBVIOUSLY symbolic. What temple could be built in Jerusalem that has a river coming out the front door and down the front steps that brings the Dead Sea area back to life?

Jesus fulfils this vision in his gospel ministry - but in eschatological tension. In the now but not yet of the Kingdom of God present on earth now - but not ruling. EG: Jesus said HE was the perfect temple! HE would be torn down and raised in 3 days.
HE IS ALSO THE RIVER! He explained to the Samaritan woman at the well (a place in the OT where a groom meets his future bride!) that HE is the Messiah. (And really the groom come to find his bride - the Samaritans). He says both Jew and Gentile will worship ANYWHERE - in “Spirit and in truth”. HE is the living water that brings life!
Jesus is the perfect temple AND the river that brings new life to the world. Then in Acts we see Peter declaring that the Last Days had started because of this gospel. And by the end of Acts it had gone from Jerusalem to Rome - the ends of the earth. Everything has been fulfilled except the final promise that one day God will return and judge Gog - all his enemies for all eternity.

But if all this context stuff is just too boring - you can always go and read Right Behind. It's my favourite of the Left Behind books! ​

 

[keras]

Does that apply to the right to bear arms?

WE do have the right to defend ourselves in our present situations. but the Lord is our ultimate Defender.

I know it's all so much more exciting if we try to make it all about us and our times - but what if it's not?

Whoops! I rattled your cage again.

Those peoples who have kept up an ancient feud, DO exist today and they are as hard at it as ever. God will destroy them and leave them neither root nor branch. Malachi 4:1-& 3
If this is never to happen, then our Bibles are no more than the book you promote.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

WE do have the right to defend ourselves in our present situations. but the Lord is our ultimate Defender.

However, those readily available arms are being sold in the black market and killing people in Canada.

 

[eclipsenow]

Whoops! I rattled your cage again

Sorry mate but I really think your trip to Jerusalem rattled your cage - to the point where the 'vision' you had has you sprouting all sorts of false prophecies - and then correcting them as you go? That doesn't inspire... confidence.

Those peoples who have kept up an ancient feud, DO exist today

Um, no. The modern feuds you are talking about are between totally different political entities - none of them actually being 'God's people' - and about totally different political conflicts. EG: The division of the modern Middle East. While they might be guilty of all sorts of horrible things - it is between totally and utterly different polities about totally and utterly different disputes - using totally different modern technologies (with no ancient swords in sight.)

But other than that - you were spot on!

What does God have against the nations? The Ammonites (see? Ammonites? Where are they today?) - are in trouble because they said "Aha!" From Ezekiel 25:
"Because you said “Aha!” over my sanctuary when it was desecrated and over the land of Israel when it was laid waste and over the people of Judah when they went into exile, 4 therefore I am going to give you to the people of the East as a possession."

Yeah. Something that happened over two and a half THOUSAND years ago! "Aha!" So what was Ezekiel about? Oh yeah. Israel's apostasy and punishment - but also the rejoicing of her enemies over Israel's fall and their eventual punishment. How were they to be punished? Let's try a cartoon format so you don't have to do this pesky 'context' thing... or all you'll 'read' are certain solar events.

Ezekiel 25:4 "therefore I am going to give you to the people of the East as a possession." Yup. Babylon.

According to Ezekiel - Babylon was going to do it. Not the sun. Not a CME. Ancient Babylon. With swords - not modern missiles and machine guns and tanks.

In the next chapter we read of Tyre's fate.

7 “For this is what the Sovereign Lord says: From the north I am going to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, with horsemen and a great army. 8 He will ravage your settlements on the mainland with the sword; he will set up siege works against you, build a ramp up to your walls and raise his shields against you. 9 He will direct the blows of his battering rams against your walls and demolish your towers with his weapons. 10 His horses will be so many that they will cover you with dust. Your walls will tremble at the noise of the warhorses, wagons and chariots when he enters your gates as men enter a city whose walls have been broken through. 11 The hooves of his horses will trample all your streets; he will kill your people with the sword, and your strong pillars will fall to the ground. 12 They will plunder your wealth and loot your merchandise; they will break down your walls and demolish your fine houses and throw your stones, timber and rubble into the sea. 13 I will put an end to your noisy songs, and the music of your harps will be heard no more. 14 I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I the Lord have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord.

According to history - Babylon DID it during the reign of Nebuchadnezzar II (605-562 BC), the powerful king of Babylon. Most of Egypt, the Ammonites, etc. The siege of Tyre took 13 years - but it too eventually fell. Imagine that? Something God said through his prophet actually happened that way?

So when you say...

If this is never to happen, then our Bibles are no more than the book you promote.

... I'm left scratching my head? Huh? If your bizarre B-grade Sci-Fi novel isn't somehow backed by an ancient prophecy that was fulfilled in ancient times - then you don't think the bible is true? That's some weird, dangerous, even cult-like logic right there. That's a scary and dangerous mix of wish-fulfilment and anti-biblical rhetoric you've got going on. I guess I should not be surprised. As we discussed last time, you've already claimed to have a vision from the Lord that proved to be false.

God will destroy them and leave them neither root nor branch. Malachi 4:1-& 3

WHEN was Ezekiel writing? Who was he writing to? And what about?
Now ask the same of Malachi. Go look up Bible Dictionaries, Encyclopaedias, even Wikipedia to try and get a handle on some basic facts of history.

That you quote a bizarre understanding of Malachi to back your bizarre anti-reading of Ezekiel is not a good look or rational biblical argument.

Also - the later parts of Ezekiel are highly symbolic and promise the eventual destruction of all God's enemies - whatever they happen to look like at the time. So we have to be careful how we read God / Magog - because if you look carefully - this figurative enemy of God has bits of all the other kingdoms. It's an amalgam.

 

[keras]

The modern feuds you are talking about are between totally different political entities - none of them actually being 'God's people' - and about totally different political conflicts. EG: The division of the modern Middle East. While they might be guilty of all sorts of horrible things - it is between totally and utterly different polities about totally and utterly different disputes - using totally different modern technologies (with no ancient swords in sight.)

This assertion is quite ridiculous. The Bible Prophets couldn't specify the modern entities, they used types of peoples; in the same locations and basically the same disputes.

Your determined attempts to force the Prophesies into the past, fail to gain traction, as we all know from the current situation in the Middle East and worldwide, that something dramatic must take place soon. And it cannot be the glorious Return, because much must take place before then.
All who believe in the Creator God and how He sent His Son to the world for our Salvation, can take heart from the many scriptures that tell us of an amazing future for all those who have faith and trust the Lord for protection as we go thru all that must happen.

try and get a handle on some basic facts of history.

Having read Herodotus, Tacitus, Gibbon, Josephus and A History of Israel; by John Bright, +, I know your ideas of past fulfilment of the Prophetic Word, are quite wrong. At least three quarters of all Bible Prophecy remains to be fulfilled. Anything which can be literally fulfilled, will be. Why not?

you've already claimed to have a vision from the Lord that proved to be false.

What the Lord showed me, is yet to happen. It cannot be called false, until the window for it to happen, is closed.

 

[eclipsenow]

This assertion is quite ridiculous. The Bible Prophets couldn't specify the modern entities, they used types of peoples; in the same locations and basically the same disputes.

Oh really? Got a newspaper clipping of Palestinian's saying "Aha" to the temple being destroyed? Oh yeah - there isn't one! Hasn't been for 2000 years.

Your determined attempts to force the Prophesies into the past, fail to gain traction, as we all know from the current situation in the Middle East and worldwide, that something dramatic must take place soon.

I hope not - but with climate change, ecocide and geopolitical tension - any big conflagration between various powers could lead to out of control nuclear war. Then only 1% of the northern hemisphere would survive the nuclear winter - oh and any semblance of the Middle East's political structures would be as gone as the 99% of people who starved to death in the dark.

And it cannot be the glorious Return, because much must take place before then.

I think the Lord could have returned any time after the gospel hit Rome. That's the 'end of the earth' Jesus talked about in the Great Comission.

All who believe in the Creator God and how He sent His Son to the world for our Salvation, can take heart from the many scriptures that tell us of an amazing future for all those who have faith and trust the Lord for protection

So true!

as we go thru all that must happen.

So false in terms of ANY predicted 'timetable' for the future - especially your little sci-fi drama. You're a failed prophet - biblically we do not have to listen to a word you say - and SHOULD NOT listen to a word you say.

Having read Herodotus, Tacitus, Gibbon, Josephus and A History of Israel; by John Bright, +, I know your ideas of past fulfilment of the Prophetic Word, are quite wrong.

They're not my ideas - and they're not wrong.

At least three quarters of all Bible Prophecy remains to be fulfilled.

You're funny.

Anything which can be literally fulfilled, will be. Why not?

It can't be fulfilled literally now because - as I said - those nations and those disputes no longer exist. Because they were already fulfilled! And you? You're just making stuff up!

What the Lord showed me, is yet to happen.

Oh here we go! What version is this? "God told me Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, or Epsilon?"

It cannot be called false, until the window for it to happen, is closed.

Except you've already chickened out and changed your own timetable to give yourself more time.
But yeah - go ahead and play all dogmatic and self-assured!

BTW - You've got about 13 to 18 months before you are officially a FALSE PROPHET!​

Forum regulars - please pay attention.​

The next 12 months will determine if Keras is a FALSE PROPHET and whether anyone here should listen to him any more. This is not a case of a simple mis-interpretation - something we’ve all experienced. This is Blues Brothers stuff - as in “We’re on a mission from God!”

Check it out!:-

KERAS CLAIMS TO BE A PROPHET!
"I am just a humble servant of the Most High God. He gave me a task: to promote what His prophets wrote so long ago, because what they wrote then, is about to happen soon. I know this, because in 2010, when I was in the Holy Land; I received a vision from the Lord and inspiration to do this."
The Day of the Lord is at Hand for all the Nations

CLAIMS TO PERFECT CONFIDENCE!
"I remain perfectly confident and I know the Appointed Day on which the Lord will arise and send fire to destroy the attackers of Israel and change the world".
The Day of the Lord is at Hand for all the Nations

After I pointed out that Jesus said no-one knows That Day or hour - Keras said:
His ‘timetable’ for the Lord’s return is “2020 AD + 9.5 = 2029.5 AD”.

Of course, a futurist’s literalistic way of reading Matthew 24 about the AOD (missing that most of the chapter is about the destruction of the temple in AD70!), it MUST happen 3.5 years before the Return in 2029.5. Which puts the AOD somewhere in January 2026!
“The Return will not be unexpected, as that will occur exactly 1260 days after the leader of the One World Govt sits in the Temple”.
The Day of the Lord is at Hand for all the Nations

Let's be gracious. Let's give him till July - just to be sure.
He'll be OK. He's "Perfectly confident."

 

[keras]

When God punished mankind in Noah’s time, He then promised to never again use a flood, or kill practically all humans, however evil they may be. Genesis 8:21
Now, Peter tells us that the earth is ‘reserved for burning, the Day of judgement when the godless will be destroyed. On that Day the sky will disappear with a great noise and heat and flames will burn the earth with its works’. 2 Peter 3:7 & 10. So, this won’t destroy everything, many will survive – it will quickly pass and the world will recover.

Isaiah 30:25b-28 On the Day of massacre, when fortresses fall, the sun will shine seven times stronger, like seven days in one. The Lord comes from afar, His anger blazing and His doom heavy as a devouring fire. He sieves the nations for destruction. Isaiah 33:10-12

Malachi 4:1 & 3 The Day comes, burning like a furnace, all the Lord’s enemies will become as stubble, set ablaze.

Isaiah 28:2 God has a mighty and strong force, it will beat down violently upon the earth, as a sweeping storm and a destroying tempest.

Matthew 3:12 His winnowing fork in His hand, ready to clear His threshing floor. He will gather the good grain into the store, but the chaff, He will burn and destroy.

Psalm 18:7-15 The earth shook and quaked, shaking because of the Lord’s anger. He came down from heaven with devouring fire, glowing coals and searing heat. Thick cloud covered Him, as He thundered from above and hurled lightning bolts far and wide.

Psalm 83:13-15 Scatter Your enemies, Lord, like chaff in the wind, as fire rages through a forest, pursue and terrify them with Your storm winds.

Isaiah 13:9-13 The Day of the Lord is coming, a cruel Day of wrath and fierce anger to reduce the earth to desolation and to destroy all the wicked there. Humans will become scarce and the earth shaken to its foundations at the wrath of the Lord on that Day of His blazing anger.

Isaiah 66:15-16 The Lord is coming in fire, like a whirlwind with the flaming fire of His rebuke. He will judge with fire, testing all mankind and many will be slain by Him.

Ezekiel 20:47 & Ezekiel 21:4 I am about to kindle a fire in Israel, it will kill the righteous and wicked alike, My sword of slaughter is against everyone from the Negev, northward.

Ezekiel 30:1-5 & 16 Wail: Alas for the Day of the Lord in near, A Day of darkness and gloom for the nations. Death will come upon Egypt, all the Arab peoples will fall on the day I set Egypt on fire.

From these prophecies, we can see that this is not the final judgement, or the Great Day of the Sovereign Lord; when Jesus Return. Rev 16:14, but is the punishment of the nations; the terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath; the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster.

Note this: Hebrews 10:12-13 Christ will not [physically] Return until His enemies are made His footstool. Psalms 110:1

 

[eclipsenow]

Matthew 3:12 His winnowing fork in His hand, ready to clear His threshing floor. He will gather the good grain into the store, but the chaff, He will burn and destroy.

It's just unreal that you rip even this verse out of context and try to make it about your silly little Sci-Fi story!
The subject here is far more serious than some over-blown natural disaster.
It's saying either you're in - or you're out.

Either you are in the kingdom of God by trusting in Jesus - or you're in the fires of hell.

It's that simple.

Let's try it in context:- Matthew 3​

​

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.​

​

11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”​

Sorry buddy but even your CME disappears after a time. This is about eternal judgement. Matthew quotes John the Baptist and Jesus using images of houses falling (that were not built on the rock), fire, and other kinds of destruction to speak of hell.

Matthew 13​

​

24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.​

​

27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’​

​

28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.​

​

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’​

​

29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”​

The harvesters? This is about however judgement day works! Not some mere natural catastrophe!

40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

So a CME just vaporises human beings. How will there be weeping and gnashing of teeth? The gnashing of teeth is a horrible image that speaks of unutterable regret and horror. It's like "I knew I should have listened to that pastor!" or whatever. It's an image of hell. Of eternity. Of regret forever.

TWO AGES MODEL: There are only two ages in the New Testament - THIS AGE - and the AGE TO COME.

THIS AGE has marriage and children, Satan, sin, temptation, tears, sickness, ageing and death in a decaying universe - and Jesus reigning invisibly from heaven.

THE AGE TO COME has no marriage and no children, no Satan, no sin, no temptation, no tears, no sickness, no ageing and no death but is in an eternal universe with Jesus reigning VISIBLY with us forever.

Once you understand these 2 Ages - you can see that there is no way to reconcile some sort of intermediate state. Images about the coming Judgement Day are interwoven with various ingredients above. Jesus returns, the dead are raised and judged, sin is banished, the heavens and earth melt, the New Heavens and New Earth are installed, believers are saved into their eternal new home, and unbelievers are sent into punishment forever. All together - in a flash! There’s no time for a literal thousand years. I don’t think any one passage has all ingredients - because the apostles were writing to specific churches about certain immediate concerns - not a Systematic Theology or dry doctrinal statement. But that's what we are trying to do here in these conversations - put it all together. It is just so sad that - like in so many areas of life today - we feel such little respect for the experts. I know godly, professional theologians who have studied this material in depth, know the ancient languages and customs, and can actually DO a little hermeneutics! I respect them. I listen to them. I only know tiny hints and tips on these deep subjects from talking with them and reading their books. (I'm spoiled - until recently my church had a number of Phd's and bible college Professors who taught the next generation of ministers.)

Let’s have a look. Thessalonians 1 and 2 show that when Jesus returns there’s a trumpet, then eternal judgement AND eternal salvation start immediately. There’s no millennium, no separate rapture, it all happens together.

1 THESSALONIANS 4
...For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words. 5 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6 So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8 But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. 9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. 11 Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."

RAPTURE: The image of being ‘caught up in the clouds’ means 2 things:-

1. We are with Jesus the ‘cloud rider’ - an ancient Old Testament contest between Yahweh and the Babylonian gods as to who was really God, and we are therefore safe ‘up there’ away from the judgement ‘down’ on the ground. It’s a bit like the image of Noah and family being safe ‘up’ in the ark - while the flood judges those left ‘down’ on the ground.
2. When a triumphant king returned from war, the citizens would rush out to meet them and celebrate and return to the city with them. Think of Jesus riding in to Jerusalem on a donkey and the crowds going nuts, throwing down palm branches! That’s what is also in mind as Paul writes that the dead will rise and then we also get lifted up to greet Jesus home. We’re cheering him on as he returns to fix this place once and for all!

DARKNESS: That we are not in darkness means we are living as children of the light in relationship to Jesus. It’s not about having secret knowledge of some silly end-times-table or date - as Jesus himself said HE did not know the date of That Day. (Matthew 24.) You can see that it’s about the character of our faith in the Lord, not our knowing a date, in the start of the next letter to the Thessalonians.

EVENTS AND IMAGES TALLY: archangel, trumpet, dead rising, caught up in clouds, with Jesus forever, salvation and judgement.
-----

2 THESSALONIANS 1:4
“Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. 5 All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. 6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you."

EVENTS AND IMAGES TALLY: Jesus revealed with angels, blazing fire, everlasting judgement, salvation. It's the same event - and the fire image is included in the Lord's visible return.

NOTE: There's no sense of God's enemies being 'left behind' here. People are either saved FOREVER or judged FOREVER. That's it. Also note - Jesus is REVEALED. There’s no secret fly-by here. Jesus is not going to “buzz” the tower - he’s going to tear it down and rebuild it and live in it!

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Matthew 13:39 - “The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are ANGELS. 40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the END OF THE AGE. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.”

EVENTS AND IMAGES TALLY: End of age, angels, harvest, weeds pulled up and burned, fire, salvation.
-----


MATTHEW 25

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the ANGELS with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left... Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world... ...41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

EVENTS AND IMAGES TALLY: End of age, angels, harvest, weeds pulled up and burned, fire, salvation.
-----

JOHN

John 6:39 - see also 44, 54;
11:24 -

“And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 12:49 - “There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day”

EVENTS AND IMAGES TALLY: Last day = both salvation and judgement.

-----

1 CORINTHIANS 15:50
“I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?”

EVENTS AND IMAGES TALLY: Trumpet (just as in Thessalonians!), imperishable = eternal, immortality, death gone, sin dealt with, in a flash - it is instantaneous. No Millennium.

-----


2 PETER 3

”Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. 8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.”

EVENTS AND IMAGES TALLY: Returning like a thief (as in Matthew 24 on That Day), fire is EVERYTHING being destroyed - and NHNE where righteousness dwells.

There's just no separating out these events into separate things. They're all the one event because every verse above contains events or images from the others.

Conclusion: the Last Day (aka That Day or the Day of the Lord) all happens together, in an instant.
May we be ready, and not disillusioned because some futurists among us drew up Science Fiction stories to lead us astray and make us doubt when they absolutely do not pan out!

 

[keras]

Conclusion: the Last Day (aka That Day or the Day of the Lord) all happens together, in an instant.

This idea cannot be right, as it is a contradiction of the Prophesies of Revelation,

May we be ready for the Day the Lord clears and cleanses the entire Middle East and calls His people to go and live in all of the Holy Land.. Zechariah 8:7-8, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26

 

[eclipsenow]

This idea cannot be right, as it is a contradiction of the Prophesies of Revelation,

May we be ready for the Day the Lord clears and cleanses the entire Middle East and calls His people to go and live in all of the Holy Land.. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26

Uh, dude, Revelation isn't prophecy - it's gospel.
Revelation isn't a timetable - it's a sermon to suffering Christians.
Revelation isn't John saying "So your wife got thrown to the lions? Huh - toughen up princess - wait till you see what happens in 2000 years!"
Revelation is obviously about Rome, obviously about the gospel, and obviously declaring gospel promises to encourage that generation being persecuted by Rome! I know of Christians persecuted in Muslim countries that take great comfort in the book of Revelation. But when they hear of this mostly modern, mostly American obsession with it all being about us and our generation - they have huge belly laughs at the very idea that John would tell his suffering generation all about some imagined even worse "Great Tribulation" in the future. I mean - he says he's sharing in the tribulation in chapter 1!

And the verses above cannot be just pulled apart like so much pulled pork. There are too many overlapping events and images that weave them all together into the one, instantaneous, unpredictable, cataclysmic event! In 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 seconds.... any moment now.... "D'oh!" (I should remember not to try and predict this stuff. ) But my point? It could have happened any time after say the New Testament was finished. There was no theological reason it could not.

Jesus is the YES to every OT prophecy.

 

[keras]

Revelation isn't prophecy - it's gospel.

Revelation 1:1....to show His servants what must soon take place..... In Gods timing, of course.

Revelation isn't a timetable - it's a sermon to suffering Christians.

Many verses give a sequence and times.

Are these the 'suffering Christians? Revelation 12:17
But these ones do not suffer; Revelation 12:14
We are told how to get into the good group and if you don't know what you need to do for that, then tough!

Revelation is obviously about Rome, obviously about the gospel, and obviously declaring gospel promises to encourage that generation being persecuted by Rome!

It is fairly well proven that John wrote Revelation ; circa 95AD. 25 years after Rome conquered Judea.
It is only preterists and nay-sayers, who demand an earlier Revelation, to fit their agenda.

Jesus is the YES to every OT prophecy.

As if that helps your weird belief, of itallhappensatonce.

 

[eclipsenow]

Revelation 1:1....to show His servants what must soon take place..... In Gods timing, of course.

Here’s the thing Mr Keras. Have you read all the other apocalypses from the time? They ALL dress up the politics of THEIR DAY in this kind of symbolic language. It’s just what apocalypse does.

With the common use of apocalyptic symbolism of the time in mind - what do we see in the first chapter of Revelation? This is John's introduction - the rules on how to read this rather unusual book. What does he say?

1:1 John says he is writing to his friends in Asia Minor "to show his servants what must SOON take place".

1:3 “blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is NEAR.”

[[ They are to KEEP it - that means read and obey it. How could they understanding a message about incomprehensible future nations 2000 years away - let alone OBEY it? And again - the time is NEAR! ]]

1:9 - ESV “I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus,”

[[ Not "partner in 'a' tribulation" but THE Tribulation. Whatever John is writing about is SOON, they are to listen to and OBEY what he writes to them, it is NEAR, and he is a PARTNER with them in this thing. He shares in it already with them! ]]

Any wiggling around these clear instructions on how to read Revelation is just magic hand-waving - appealing to the inner narcissist that wants it to be all about ME and MY generation and MY need to figure out the puzzle and be like some hero in some B-grade Dan Brown novel!

Many verses give a sequence and times.

Are these the 'suffering Christians? Revelation 12:17
But these ones do not suffer; Revelation 12:14
We are told how to get into the good group and if you don't know what you need to do for that, then tough!

It is fairly well proven that John wrote Revelation ; circa 95AD. 25 years after Rome conquered Judea.
It is only preterists and nay-sayers, who demand an earlier Revelation, to fit their agenda.

As if that helps your weird belief, of itallhappensatonce.

Bla blah.
You have just over 1 year.

 

[keras]

You have just over 1 year.

Wait for the Day...... Zephaniah 3:8

 

[eclipsenow]

No mate - that's my line - not yours. Your line is "I remain perfectly confident and I know the Appointed Day". The Day of the Lord is at Hand for all the Nations Then you told us the Lord returns in 2029.5. So of course that means the AOD is January 2026. You have 12 months.

My line is that I'd rather side with Jesus (Matt 24) and Paul (Thessalonians) when they say that day will be like a thief - so we must stay ready - walking in faith and doing the right things until then.

Anyway - you've quoted the OT in an incorrect manner - yet again.

That "Day of the Lord" is already literally fulfilled. Again - you've missed the genre of the book. Or do you believe in literal werelions and werewolves?

Let me explain.

Zephaniah's prophetic message is pretty much a mirror of Ezekiel's - but with some other choice imagery!

Zephaniah is all about the apocalyptic news that God has turned on Israel - and considers them to almost be the same as the other nations. Judgement is coming. Judah and Jerusalem will fall. The world is so messed up it's almost like God is going to un-create it - and return it to the chaos of Genesis 1:1. But while Zephaniah uses that kind of imagery - it has a much more specific focus. From Chapter 1.

“When I destroy all mankind
on the face of the earth,”
declares the Lord,
4 “I will stretch out my hand against Judah
and against all who live in Jerusalem.
I will destroy every remnant of Baal worship in this place,
the very names of the idolatrous priests—
5 those who bow down on the roofs
to worship the starry host,
those who bow down and swear by the Lord
and who also swear by Molek,
6 those who turn back from following the Lord
and neither seek the Lord nor inquire of him.”

It's about Israel abandoning God - and the 'world' being uncreated is actually Jerusalem and the surrounding nations.

>>> Anyone worshipping Molek in Israel today? Got some photos to show me that this is actually about today? <<<

Rather - Zephaniah - like Ezekiel - is also mostly fulfilled by Babylon rushing in as the “Day of the Lord” against Jerusalem and the surrounding nations. We need to see that Zephaniah uses some really cool and alarming poetic images to describe things. EG: Describes Israel's leaders as animals.

Zeph 3:3: "Her officials within her are roaring lions;
her rulers are evening wolves, who leave nothing for the morning."

>>> Are these literal werelions and werewolves? I mean - you're the futurist telling us to read this stuff literally, right? So there were werewolves in the bible - right? <<<

But then some go and get all muddle-headed when it comes to things they want to snatch out of context and apply to today. A common and terrifying tactic of war in the ancient world was to breach the city walls and just ride through, throwing oil on anything flammable and then pressing a flaming torch to it. If the victors did not want to keep the place, they would just ride through and burn it down. They would leave before the firestorm got too out of hand - and know that anyone left behind would have to split their labour between finding food and growing crops and trying to rebuild shelter for the winter - if it wasn't winter already!

So when Zephaniah knows Babylon is about to come charging through - he never names them because his theological point is that he wants Israel to know it's GOD that is doing this. Ancient Babylon is merely God's tool destroy Jerusalem when it finally happens. But - given ancient warfare - of course he uses the imagery of fire.

Zeph 3:8

Therefore wait for me,”
declares the Lord,
“for the day I will stand up to testify.
I have decided to assemble the nations,
to gather the kingdoms
and to pour out my wrath on them—
all my fierce anger.
The whole world will be consumed
by the fire of my jealous anger.

>>> Tell me Keras - do Coronal Mass Ejections walk through cities and search out the last people there? Do they steal stuff - even picking grapes off the vine? Do you believe in were-stars also now? I mean - this is all in Chapter 1!!! <<<

At that time I will search Jerusalem with lamps
and punish those who are complacent,
who are like wine left on its dregs,
who think, ‘The Lord will do nothing,
either good or bad.’
13 Their wealth will be plundered,
their houses demolished.
Though they build houses,
they will not live in them;
though they plant vineyards,
they will not drink the wine.”

These are the problems we get ourselves into when we refuse to recognise the genre of the texts we are reading.

But as we saw above, Zephaniah is using the image of the 'whole world' being returned to un-creation actually as an image of how awful God's specific judgement is going to be on Israel and the surrounding nations. God is judging THAT ancient Jerusalem worshipping THOSE PARTICULAR other gods of of THOSE HISTORICAL surrounding nations. It happened. Zephaniah is all fulfilled - right?

Well - in a sense that particular "Day of the Lord" is fulfilled. Like so many other "Days of the Lord" scattered throughout the OT. But this image is building in magnitude throughout the bible - and the end of Zephaniah leaves us with a theological message we cannot ignore even today.

If that is how seriously God took his covenant with Israel - how much more so if we abandon the new covenant he as given us in the blood of his son? But also - look at the fantastic and beautiful hope we have to look forward to if we remain trusting in the Lord Jesus. From 3:9 onwards is the final song - the destination of all this. It does not unpack how or when - just the beautiful goal of all peoples - even from the Cush (Egypt) up to Jerusalem - God's old enemies and now his people - coming to worship him.

Then in Hebrews 12 we see that as we remain true to the Lord, as we resist temptation and endure persecution (or just mere prejudice as we do here in the free western world) and where-ever we live - it's like we're fulfilling parts of Zephaniah 3:9 onwards!

Hebrews 12
22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.... for our “God is a consuming fire.”

That's from Deuteronomy 4 - a passage full of the fire of God on the mountain - the very passage Hebrews 12 is looking back to. It is the giving of the covenant - and the author of Hebrews is saying Jesus ushered in a new covenant. But do not forget the Lord in times of trouble and persecution! Because our God remains a consuming fire!

But back in Deuteronomy 4 it is explained that for their context - God being protective of his covenant meant that 'consuming fire' would be God dispersing them to the surrounding pagan nations - 4:25-31. Which is exactly what we see being fulfilled in Ezekiel and Zephaniah!

So no WONDER they use the language of fire and darkness! It's to remind them of their covenant - of the day their ancestors saw the fire and darkness and cloud of the Lord - and were warned that because he is a consuming fire - they would be handed over to the nations!
That - and the fact that fire was a common weapon of war - and we have the context for what Zephaniah is really talking about.

 

[keras]

These are the problems we get ourselves into when we refuse to recognise the genre of the texts we are reading.

The worst problem comes when the literal fulfilment is rejected.

​

It was Zephaniah's lot to speak on the most unpleasant subject in the Bible -- the judgment of God. This is not the only place where this theme occurs, of course, but it is the most concentrated treatment of the judgment of God as the whole book is devoted to this one theme.

There are many people who would like to rule this subject of judgment out of the Bible entirely. There are those who tell us that the God of the New Testament, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, is the kind of a God who can never move in judgment. His heart is so tender, his love is so gracious, his patience is so infinite that there cannot be a time when God will move in vengeance. It should be noted though, that in the New Testament the Lord Jesus spoke very frequently about the judgment of God. In the fourth chapter of Luke we are told that the Lord came back to his home town after preaching in Judea for many months. He had done many miracles and the word of his miracles had preceded him, so all the folks in Nazareth were very anxious to see him. He had not behaved like this when he was a boy growing up, and they were keen to see if he was going to do some mighty work when he came home.

Luke tells us that Jesus went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and he was given the book of the prophecy of Isaiah to read. Opening the scroll he found the place in Isaiah 61:1-2a; The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. Luke 4:10 Then he stopped right in the middle of a sentence, right at a comma, and his last word was that he had come to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord. But Isaiah goes on to say, and the day of vengeance of our God. Isaiah 61:2b Jesus did not read that because it was not the time for the Day of vengeance of God. It is this day particularly, that Zephaniah is talking about.

Zephaniah means "hidden of the Lord" and the prophet is speaking as if he were a representative of the remnant of faith -- those relatively few people who will remain true to God and be faithful to Him, through this disaster that is to come upon the earth. They will be hidden, as it were, by God himself among the nations of the earth and God will watch over them to keep them in faith during this time. And it is about these people that the book of Zephaniah is written, and especially of that coming day, the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, which is vividly described by the prophet.

In chapter 1, Zephaniah gives us the character of God's vengeance. It is not a pleasant passage.

"I will utterly sweep away everything
from the face of the land, says the Lord.
I will sweep away man and beast;
I will sweep away the birds of the air
and the fish of the sea.
I will overthrow the wicked;
I will cut off mankind
from the face of the earth," says the Lord.
"I will stretch out my hand against Judah,
and against all the inhabitants of Jerusalem,
and I will cut off from this place the remnant of Baal [the false god of the peoples around Israel]
and the name of the idolatrous priests;
those who bow down on the roofs to the host of heavens; [the star worshipers]
those who bow down and swear to the Lord
and yet swear by Milcom; [one of the other gods the surrounding nations]
those who have turned back from following the Lord,
who do not seek the Lord or inquire of him.

Be silent before the Lord God!
For the day of the Lord is at hand.

The day of the Lord is the day of the manifestation of God's hand directly in human affairs. Notice the personal pronoun all through that passage: "I will sweep away everything." I will sweep away man and beast." "I will cut off mankind." God is working through events in history, working through nations and armies and calamities of various sorts. But as He did in Noah’s day, He will use His creation to once again reset civilization, this time with fire, as over 70 prophesies tell us.

The Apostle Paul also uses the term "the Day of the Lord." In 1 Thessalonians 5:1-6 he says:

But as to the times and seasons, brethren, you have no need to have anything written to you. [Why not? Well, because they already had it in the Old Testament.] For you yourselves know well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. When people say, "There is peace and security," then sudden destruction will come upon them as travail comes upon a woman with child, and there will be no escape. But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief. For you are all sons of light and sons of the day; we are not of the night or of darkness. So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober.

There are many other passages that also refer to the Day of the Lord and they all agree that in the time when men are proclaiming peace, but preparing for war; in a time when they are holding to a form of godliness but denying the powers thereof; in a time when they are declaring that the problems of life are being solved. but when actually they are in greater danger than they have ever been before, then the Day of the Lord will come.

Now let us return to Zephaniah and see what he has to say about this (chapter 1. verses 7-9):

Be silent before the Lord God!
For the day of the Lord is at hand;
the Lord has prepared a sacrifice
and consecrated his guests.
And on the day of the Lord's sacrifice --
"I will punish the officials and the king's sons
and all who array themselves in foreign attire ...
every one who leaps over the threshold,
and those who fill their master's house
with violence and fraud.

How can this be? How can the God of love -- the God of the New Testament -- do a thing like this? How can God, who loves mercy and is slow to anger, ever come to this place?

It is this kind of reasoning that suggests we should go through our Bibles and tear out every part that does not agree with our concepts of God. But what we have left, of course, is nothing more than what we like, what we think God ought to be like.

You can see how such an argument defeats itself. The very book that tells us that God is a God of love also says he is a God of vengeance. And anyone who thinks carefully about himself and about love will understand why a God of love has to be a God of vengeance. For if we love someone, we hate everything that injures that person. We are against whatever threatens or destroys what we love. And the very love that moves the heart of God to pour himself out over the centuries in an unceasing effort to awaken man to his need and to hear the call of grace, is the same love that at last prompts him to eliminate those who refuse all the province of his grace, and identify themselves with that which is opposed to his will and to his work among men. Then he has nothing left to do but to destroy them. And that is why the prophet speaks so plainly about this.

Continuing in Zephaniah 1:14-18:

The great day of the Lord is near,
near and hastening fast;
the sound of the day of the Lord is bitter,
the mighty man cries aloud there.
A day of wrath is that day,
a day of distress and anguish,
a day of ruin and devastation,
a day of darkness and gloom,
a day of clouds and thick darkness,
a day of trumpet blast and battle cry
against the fortified cities
and against the lofty battlements.

And God says in stark frankness,

I will bring distress on men,
so that they shall walk like the blind,
because they have sinned against the Lord;
their blood shall be poured out like dust,
and their flesh like dung.
Neither their silver nor their gold
shall be able to deliver them
on the Day of the wrath of the Lord.

Now it is not easy for God to speak this way. He himself says that he takes no delight in the death of men. He says that he does not delight in judgment. Judgment, the prophet says, is his strange work. His heart delights in mercy. But eventually, if his will is to be done, if earth at last is to break out into the glorious freedom of the promises of the prophets concerning man, if the dreams that lie hidden away in the hearts of men of a warless world, a time of prosperity. a time when joy floods the earth, when men live together in glorious harmony, when even the animals lose their enmity toward one another and peace shall cover the earth as the waters cover the sea -- if that is ever to come, then God must deal with the entrenched evil of men. This is why the coming of the day of vengeance of our God is absolutely certain. The prophets warn of this and the word speaks very clearly. all through the New Testament as well, that when God's grace is turned aside, God's judgment awaits.

In Zephaniah 2:8-9 we trace the extent of God's vengeance. Certain nations are named;

"I have heard the taunts of Moab
and the revilings of the Ammonites, "Moab shall become like Sodom,
and the Ammonites like Gomorrah,

The Ethiopians are mentioned in verse 12 and the Assyrians in verse 13. The interesting thing is that although all these nations are long since lost in the dust of history, the promise of this day of the Lord is in the future. How can this be? Why are these nations mentioned here when they have long been buried in antiquity? How can they yet be destroyed in a day to come?

The answer is, of course, that these nations are used symbolically throughout the Scriptures as well as literally. They were literally destroyed in the course of history, but they are used symbolically with reference to the full and final meaning of the day of the Lord. Moab, for instance, is always a picture of the flesh of man -- his dependence upon his own resources. The Ammonites picture the same thing. Ethiopia is a picture of the stubbornness, or the intransigence of man. "Can the Ethiopian change his color?" the Scriptures say. And Assyria is man in his arrogance and his pride. Now God says he is against all these things, and as he moves at last in judgment on the human race, these are to be eliminated. In chapter 3 you will notice how extensive God's wrath is;

Woe to her that is rebellious and defiled,
the oppressing city!
She listens to no voice,
she accepts no correction.
She does not trust in the Lord,
she does not draw near to her God.

This could be said of almost all the cities of the earth. As you read on you see that this is a world-wide matter;

"Therefore wait for me," says the Lord,
"for the day when I arise as a witness.
For my decision is to gather nations,
to assemble kingdoms,
to pour out upon them my indignation,
all the heat of my anger;
for in the fire of my jealous wrath
all the earth shall be consumed."

What for? What is God after? Is he just interested in getting even, wreaking his vengeance at last upon the stubbornness and willfulness of men? Is he visiting the earth with this terrible hurricane of destruction in order to leave it nothing but a smoking ruin, barren and desolate, without inhabitants? No, that is what men would do if there were another world war. We would leave the earth desolate, but God will never leave it that way.

After you read the description of all the darkness, gloom, and slaughter -- after the desolation and the destruction, what is the next word? Verse 14:

Sing aloud, O daughter of Zion;
shout, O Israel!
Rejoice and exult with all your heart,
O daughter of Jerusalem!

Why? You see, this is the new order that is to follow. This is why God is dealing with men, so that he might bring out songs instead of sorrow, service instead of selfishness, security instead of slavery. This will be the consequence of God's judgment. And we are told that the Lord God is in the midst of the people, not for judgment;

The Lord within her is righteous,
he does no wrong; ... The Lord, your God, is in your midst,
a warrior who gives victory;
he will rejoice over you with gladness,
he will renew you in his love;
he will exult over you with loud singing
as on a day of festival.

"I will remove disaster from you, ...
deal with all your oppressors.
And I will save the lame
and gather the outcasts,
... change their shame into praise
and renown in all the earth.
At that time I will bring you home,

What a picture this is! Specifically, of course, it has to do with the remnant of Israel, but it is a picture of God's loving care during any time of despair or darkness., God calls back the remnant of Israel, plus all the people grafted in, to Himself and they will at last break out into the song of the redeemed. Now the singing here is led by the Lord himself in a marvellous, glorious melody of joy. It reminds me of that beautiful passage in the Song of Songs:

For lo, the winter is past,
the rain is over and gone.
The flowers appear on the earth,
the time of singing has come. Song of songs 2:11-12a

That is what follows the time of judgment. But no one but the redeemed can join in that song. That is what Zephaniah tells us about. Although it is a painful scene, one that begins in darkness and gloom, it ends in joy and gladness and singing.
Ref: Ray Steadman