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The prudent keep silent in such times

ByTheSpirit

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Amos 5:12-13 (BSB)
For I know that your transgressions are many
and your sins are numerous.
You oppress the righteous by taking bribes;
you deprive the poor of justice in the gate.
Therefore, the prudent keep silent in such times,
for the days are evil.

Is God really saying that when times are evil, those who are prudent will keep their mouths shut? Why? Is that to preserve their own life and not risk premature death or persecution? This seems interesting to me
 
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That’s what it seems to be saying. Can you find any scriptures to the contrary? It seems like God is saying that your not going to change it but it will pass. The motive I’m not sure of. But don’t judge motives. It’s very effective for a city or nation to be praying about the present king or government and against evil. Praying good for your enemy even.

Not sure why, but God has his reasons. It could be as you say. It seems self protective. Definitely not the American way and not Gods way. Maybe a live believer is better than a dead martyr. It may not change anything until Gods time anyway.
it seems like this day of evil might be from God and how can God deliver unless the times are evil sometimes. He is preserving the remnant of good left in the city. Read on 20 verses before and twenty verses after some times will give your answer.

Sometimes I wonder if this should be true in Muslim countries where so much persecution. Maybe preserve life, preserve good and let it grow. Be an example and don’t offend. Some groups push evangelization and churches but we just see them being murdered and churches burned. But some are silent and less bold and survive. I guess it’s up to the individual. If passive resistance ends in death then why? The Muslims want to wipe out even their memory. But here God says don’t speak against them. The righteous are being persecuted in these verses.
 
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ByTheSpirit

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That’s what it seems to be saying. Can you find any scriptures to the contrary? It seems like God is saying that your not going to change it but it will pass. The motive I’m not sure of. But don’t judge motives. It’s very effective for a city or nation to be praying about the present king or government and against evil. Praying good for your enemy even.

Not sure why, but God has his reasons. It could be as you say. It seems self protective. Definitely not the American way and not Gods way. Maybe a live believer is better than a dead martyr. It may not change anything until Gods time anyway.
it seems like this day of evil might be from God and how can God deliver unless the times are evil sometimes. He is preserving the remnant of good left in the city. Read on 20 verses before and twenty verses after some times will give your answer.

Sometimes I wonder if this should be true in Muslim countries where so much persecution. Maybe preserve life, preserve good and let it grow. Be an example and don’t offend. Some groups push evangelization and churches but we just see them being murdered and churches burned. But some are silent and less bold and survive. I guess it’s up to the individual. If passive resistance ends in death then why? The Muslims want to wipe out even their memory. But here God says don’t speak against them. The righteous are being persecuted in these verses.

It definitely has the vibes of:

Matthew 7:6 (BSB)
Do not give dogs what is holy; do not throw your pearls before swine. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.

and

Matthew 10:16 (BSB)
Behold, I am sending you out like sheep among wolves; therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.
 
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Fireinfolding

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This is a pretty good one, great question actually never looked at it before.

Scriptures speak of a season and time for various things (including a time to speak)

Ecc 3:3 -8

3 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

So a time for every purpose under heaven, includes a time to keep silence and a time to speak

Whereas in Amos 5:12 it says, the prudent shall keep silence in a certain time

Amos 5:13 Therefore the prudent shall keep silence in that time;
for it is an evil time.

So, a time to keep silence is found here and mainly in a time such as this

Amos 5:12 2 For I know your manifold transgressions and your mighty sins:
they afflict the just, they take a bribe, and they turn aside the poor in the gate from their right.

Maybe something can be found in the specifics of the verse elsewhere (as it pertains to a reason).

This just made my day, I love these sorts of things, great question.
 
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Unqualified

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Yeah. But what about the Great Commission. New Testament supersedes OT.
It definitely has the vibes of:

Matthew 7:6 (BSB)
Do not give dogs what is holy; do not throw your pearls before swine. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.

and

Matthew 10:16 (BSB)
Behold, I am sending you out like sheep among wolves; therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.
That seems like the way it should be. But Fulani Christians preaching to Fulani tribesnen. other Nigerian Christians die gladly. Are they getting anywhere?
 
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ByTheSpirit

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Yeah. But what about the Great Commission. New Testament supersedes OT.

That seems like the way it should be. But Fulani Christians preaching to Fulani tribesnen. other Nigerian Christians die gladly. Are they getting anywhere?
no doubt, and it's not something that I think we will come to a consensus on. The prior context of this portion of the prophecy is describing the sins and transgressions of the people. The subsequent passage says to seek good for the Lord is with us. Right smack in the middle is where it says, "the prudent keep silent in such times, for the days are evil."

I wonder if it's like @Fireinfolding suggests from Ecclesiastes. There's a time and season. Even the Apostles seemingly knew when they were to run from danger and when they had to stand and say a word. Perhaps just living with wisdom while seeking opportunities to rebut evil.
 
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Fireinfolding

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Seeems to indicate there might be no use in doing so because of Amos 5:12

Amos 5:10 They hate him that rebuketh in the gate, and they abhor him that speaketh uprightly.

Amos 5:13 Therefore the prudent shall keep silence in that time; for it is an evil time.
 
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ByTheSpirit

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Seeems to indicate there might be no use in doing so because of Amos 5:12

Amos 5:10 They hate him that rebuketh in the gate, and they abhor him that speaketh uprightly.

Amos 5:13 Therefore the prudent shall keep silence in that time; for it is an evil time.
So perhaps more of a "don't waste your breath or effort" on those who have determined not to listen?
 
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Fireinfolding

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Disect one of the sins listed in Amos 5:12 ...they afflict the just, they take a bribe

So taking bribes would result in the perverted judgment would come of it

1 Sam 8:3 And his sons walked not in his ways,
but turned aside after lucre, and took bribes, and perverted judgment.

Because the scriptures show the same blinds the eyes

1 Sam 12:3... of whose hand have I received any bribe to blind mine eyes therewith?
 
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Fireinfolding

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So perhaps more of a "don't waste your breath or effort" on those who have determined not to listen?

You know, I am still digging for the best possible reason the scriptures will provide, it sure appears to be something to that effect. I would hate to say for certain yet, but obviously we have a time to speak and be silent and scripture is stating that at such a time (is an evil time) and in that time they should.

I wouldn't have expected that to be honest with you, I guess because its dealing toward others unfairly and being quiet seems more like a cowardly move, so I am thinking there has to be something in the transgressions that will make any voice as nothing to it or something. And we know *bribes blind eyes, and perverts judgment. To afflict the just can mean "
  1. to show hostility toward, treat with enmity, vex, harass

But it's just such a great question, theres so few decent ones out there its great to find this one. I can see how this might irk you a bit

Edit
Not brides, but *bribes lol
 
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ByTheSpirit

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For what it's worth, I was reading about this is the New American Commentary and this is what it says:

"
Amos 5:13 (New American Commentary)
Interpreting v. 13 presents several difficulties. The semantic range of the three key words the NIV translates "prudent," "keeps quiet," and "evil" allows for several interpretations. The word "therefore" (laken) usually introduces a judgment message in the prophets and elsewhere in Amos (3:11; 4:12; 5:11,16; 6:7; 7:17). Yet the word maskil ("prudent"), except when it designates a type of psalm (Ps 32:1, etc.), refers to a person with insight or understanding (cf. Prov 10:5,19; 14:35). Therefore many interpreters consider the verse a wisdom saying rather than an expression of judgment. Silence, however, is not recommended in the verse. Certainly Amos was not silent in his time, nor were those referred to in v. 10, though silence would have been the safest and easiest course. Although speaking out might be a waste of effort, the righteous could not keep silent. The point could be that the times were such that wise men, who in better times would be consulted for their wisdom, were silent because no one would listen. Or the term maskil could be a morally neutral reference to one who knew how to avoid trouble, in which case silence would be the best policy in such evil times.

The word translated "evil" (ra'a) likely means here "disaster, calamity," as in 3:6; Ps 37:19; Jer 15:11; and especially the end of Mic 2:3, which is identical to the last line here. "In such times" is literally "at that time," and "the times are evil" is "it is/will be a time of evil/disaster." The time referred to, then, is perhaps the future divine judgment when the prudent or thoughtful person will be stunned to silence by such disaster (cf. Lam 2:10; 3:28). The verb translated "keeps silent," yiddom, may even refer to the silence of death and be translated "will perish" (cf. 1 Sam 2:9; Ps 31:17; Jer 8:14; 25:37; 48:9; 49:26; 50:30; Zeph 1:11). Perhaps the prudent will perish "because the times will be so bad that goodness will not be tolerated."

G. Smith has argued cogently that since the root of hammaskil (sakal) can mean "to be clever" or "to prosper," the meaning of the noun here that best fits the context is "the prosperous." This would make the word refer to the very people Amos had been describing who used their position, power, and wealth to oppress the poor (v. 11). Smith translates the sentence: "Therefore, the prosperous will be silent at that time, for it will be a disastrous time." This silence he takes either as the silence of grief or of death. Whatever details of interpretation are adopted, it seems clear that the verse is a prediction of judgment."
 
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RileyG

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Thanks for posting this. This really got me thinking. I know the Prophet Amos was concerned about social justice. Perhaps he was speaking to those who weren't concerned about it?
 
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ByTheSpirit

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Prov 9:8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

Its just one of those, "which way do I go"? scenarios ^_^
Such a fun discussion!
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Amos 5:12-13 (BSB)
For I know that your transgressions are many
and your sins are numerous.
You oppress the righteous by taking bribes;
you deprive the poor of justice in the gate.
Therefore, the prudent keep silent in such times,
for the days are evil.

Is God really saying that when times are evil, those who are prudent will keep their mouths shut? Why? Is that to preserve their own life and not risk premature death or persecution? This seems interesting to me
I think that you are correct. I think when a nation enters into evil days, as our nation has, the best thing is not to engage the evil ones about their conduct directly. This is, I think, the beginning of judgment on a nation. He lets them have their way and allows them to fall into a reprobate mind. If they want an evil king, He allows it. If they want perverseness and filth, He takes away His protective hand. Today, in this country, the days are evil. There is no need to prove the obvious. The foundations are being removed. What can the righteous do? Go into your house and close the doors. Find fellowship with faithful believers. Proclam the Word to those who still have eyes to see and ears to hear. Care for your loved ones and brothers and sisters in the Lord. Do not sacrifice your pearls to the swine who will only mock you and trod you and your words underfoot. The number of noble hearers is diminishing. Most of all, pray that the Lord will open the eyes and give light to those who will be saved. What else can you do?
Do you think I am being pessimistic?
 
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Fireinfolding

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I think that you are correct. I think when a nation enters into evil days, as our nation has, the best thing is not to engage the evil ones about their conduct directly. This is, I think, the beginning of judgment on a nation. He lets them have their way and allows them to fall into a reprobate mind. If they want an evil king, He allows it. If they want perverseness and filth, He takes away His protective hand. Today, in this country, the days are evil. There is no need to prove the obvious. The foundations are being removed. What can the righteous do? Go into your house and close the doors. Find fellowship with faithful believers. Proclam the Word to those who still have eyes to see and ears to hear. Care for your loved ones and brothers and sisters in the Lord. Do not sacrifice your pearls to the swine who will only mock you and trod you and your words underfoot. The number of noble hearers is diminishing. Most of all, pray that the Lord will open the eyes and give light to those who will be saved. What else can you do?
Do you think I am being pessimistic?

That was perfectly put I think. Good job.
 
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Fireinfolding

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You can mash these together, they flow a little

Prov 13:1 A wise son heareth his father's instruction:
but a scorner heareth not rebuke.

Prov 15:12 A scorner loveth not one that reproveth him:
neither will he go unto the wise.

Prov 9:8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee:
rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

Amos 5:10 They hate him that rebuketh in the gate,
and they abhor him that speaketh uprightly.

Amos 5:13 Therefore the prudent shall keep silence in that time;
for it is an evil time.

Maybe if I run "wicked" I will get some better results
 
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ByTheSpirit

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I think that you are correct. I think when a nation enters into evil days, as our nation has, the best thing is not to engage the evil ones about their conduct directly. This is, I think, the beginning of judgment on a nation. He lets them have their way and allows them to fall into a reprobate mind. If they want an evil king, He allows it. If they want perverseness and filth, He takes away His protective hand. Today, in this country, the days are evil. There is no need to prove the obvious. The foundations are being removed. What can the righteous do? Go into your house and close the doors. Find fellowship with faithful believers. Proclam the Word to those who still have eyes to see and ears to hear. Care for your loved ones and brothers and sisters in the Lord. Do not sacrifice your pearls to the swine who will only mock you and trod you and your words underfoot. The number of noble hearers is diminishing. Most of all, pray that the Lord will open the eyes and give light to those who will be saved. What else can you do?
Do you think I am being pessimistic?
Nah, I think you are spot on.

1 Peter 3:15 (LSB Strong's)
always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you

I think we speak louder with our actions than our words. Living the gospel life and as people notice we are "different" using that as an opportunity to speak truth and grace to them. Good response! Thank you for sharing.
 
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