The Prosperity Doctrine

Oscar, letting people believe lies and follow charlatans without warning them is not loving them. Sometimes rebukes and harsh language is needed, other times a loving word is needed. This idea that we need to LUVVV everyone by being real nice to them is misplaced at times. When Yahshua cleansed the temple of money changers, that was an act of love. When He call the Pharisees vipers and white washed tombs, that was an act of love. The love of the Spirit is at times tough.

Blessings.

Oscarr said:

Like it or not, WOFers are members of the same body of Christ as you, and have dependence on the same Jesus, and share the same Holy Spirit. This is because they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and are baptised the same as you were, and this is the entry qualification for salvation that Peter pointed out in Acts 2.

It seems that you believe that WOFers are the more dishonourable parts of the body. Did you know that Paul says that we should hold the more dishonourable and weaker members of the body in greater honour? This is in keeping with 1 Corinthians 13 which contains the practical ways that we love our brethren in Christ. If we love only those who agree with us, and not those who we disagree with, then how can we love God whom we cannot see? That's what the Bible tells me.

So the Word of God to me is that I should love WOFers as Jesus loves them, even though I may not fully agree with some of their theology. Because if I don't love them with the love of Jesus, then I don't know God at all, because God is love.

That's why I don't make blanket statements that WOFers are false.

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Hi Oscarr,
I think my remarks were aimed at the teachers of the WOF movement who are clearly in Heresy, not the followers.

Jesus warned against heresies; Matthew 24 is one and later Paul warns in 1 Timothy 6:5. Jesus even warned that even the very elect could be deceived.

If you really believe the teachings of Kenneth Copeland rather than what the bible teaches, then its upto you to weigh what is being taught inline with scripture rather than blindly following everything they teach.

Mikes right O. It comes out of their mouths and their lives bear fruit as well. Line this up with scripture and the truth is easily discerned.

This [is] a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. (1 Timothy 3:1-7, KJV)

There is a biblical standard that is held out by the Apostle for those that are to be leaders in the church.

Mikecpking said:

Hi Oscarr,
I think my remarks were aimed at the teachers of the WOF movement who are clearly in Heresy, not the followers.

Jesus warned against heresies; Matthew 24 is one and later Paul warns in 1 Timothy 6:5. Jesus even warned that even the very elect could be deceived.

If you really believe the teachings of Kenneth Copeland rather than what the bible teaches, then its upto you to weigh what is being taught inline with scripture rather than blindly following everything they teach.

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yes, but being a good Berean follows with every leader who writes a book or a manuscript, including Calvin.
Remember, when you point a finger at someone else, there are three fingers pointing back at you.

p.s. remember, when you point a finger at someone else, there are three fingers pointing back at you.

Oscarr said:

So, it can be argued that the present day Prosperity Doctrine is merely a modern form of Baal worship, and the same judgment that happened to the Baal worshippers of Israel, may very well happen to those who subscribe to the Prosperity doctrine.

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Yes, of course

pdudgeon said:

yes, but being a good Berean follows with every leader who writes a book or a manuscript, including Calvin.
Remember, when you point a finger at someone else, there are three fingers pointing back at you.

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True, but when someone is teaching heresy, what does one do? Paul did not shut up in the books of Timothy.
Do you agree with Copeland that you are a 'little god'?

Oscarr said:

Solomon did not ask for wealth, but God gave it to him as a bonus, in the same way that He will give abundance to those who depend wholly on Christ, as a bonus because He loves giving in abundance.

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Jesus is example to us. He was not an example of abundance and prosperity.

Mikecpking said:

True, but when someone is teaching heresy, what does one do? Paul did not shut up in the books of Timothy.
Do you agree with Copeland that you are a 'little god'?

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That depends how Kenneth Copeland defines 'gods'. Does he mean gods in the sense that humans are deities that deserve worship? Or does he mean 'gods' in the biblical sense of the Hebrew Word 'elohim', which does not always refer to 'the God', but can also refer to a human being made in the image and likeness of God who has been given dominion on earth?

I have been a partner with Kenneth Copeland ministries for years, and I can gaurantee you that he means the latter. You will never find a quote of Kenneth Copeland saying that man is a deity that deserves worship. I challenge you to find such a quote. I double dog dare you. I even triple dog dare you.

And if you spent any real time listening to him for yourself, rather than just to sound bites from those who have an agenda to push, and an ax to grind, then you would know this already. How do I know that you haven't spent any timed listening to him yourself? Because if you did, you would know better.

I do believe the scripture:

6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
-Psalm 82:6

But this doesn't mean 'gods' in the sense of a deity that deserves worship, but rather 'gods' in the sense of a human being made in the image and likeness of God that has received the Word of God and has been delegated to walk in its authority on earth.

Peace...

dkbwarrior said:

That depends how Kenneth Copeland defines 'gods'. Does he mean gods in the sense that humans are deities that deserve worship? Or does he mean 'gods' in the biblical sense of the Hebrew Word 'elohim', which does not always refer to 'the God', but can also refer to a human being made in the image and likeness of God who has been given dominion on earth?

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We are not 'Elohim', but we are 'nephesh' (Gen 2:7). 'Image' and 'likeness' does not mean we are 'gods', but we have in our character attributes like creativity, spirituality, morality etc. This is how the Hebrews evisaged 'image'.

I have been a partner with Kenneth Copeland ministries for years, and I can gaurantee you that he means the latter. You will never find a quote of Kenneth Copeland saying that man is a deity that deserves worship. I challenge you to find such a quote. I double dog dare you. I even triple dog dare you.

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No one said anything about receiving worship. We are not little deities, but the bible clearly states in Isiah 44:6 there is only one God and there are not any little gods. Psalm 82:6 as been explained very clearly in a sperate thread which examines the whole WOF movement which I have posted.

And if you spent any real time listening to him for yourself, rather than just to sound bites from those who have an agenda to push, and an ax to grind, then you would know this already. How do I know that you haven't spent any timed listening to him yourself? Because if you did, you would know better.

I do believe the scripture:

6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
-Psalm 82:6

But this doesn't mean 'gods' in the sense of a deity that deserves worship, but rather 'gods' in the sense of a human being made in the image and likeness of God that has received the Word of God and has been delegated to walk in its authority on earth.

Peace...

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I used to get 'Believers voice of victory' 20 years ago and was put off when Gloria Copeland was announced as 'Christian woman of the year'. A little later, I did theology and saw straight through what teachings like 'Jesus died spiritually', and other heresies were being taught. I even have close fiends sucked into this rubbish and worse still, my mother who died 3 1/2 years ago had a leaflet from Benny Hinn ministries by her bedside in hospital where she died with her check book with the leaflet stating more or less to the effect of "Send your money so God may heal your mortal body". I almost threw up.

The biblical view of man is we are not 'god's', but we are nephesh creatures (google it) and we are subject to death. If we become Christians, in now way could we do the same thing as Jesus on the cross and Jesus death on the cross ALONE is pays for our sin. Jesus was not born again in hell and nor was he tortured by Satan there, because all that is what we would call 'extra biblical'.

We can even look at the quotes of Copeland and Hinn...

"You don't have a god in you, you are one."(1)

Isaiah 44:8 There is no God besides me

"Pray to yourself, because I'm in your self and you're in Myself. We are one Spirit, saith the Lord."(2)
"I say this with all respect so that it don't upset you too bad, but I say it anyway. When I read in the Bible where he [Jesus] says, 'I Am,' I just smile and say, 'Yes, I Am, too!'"(3)

"I am" is the Jesus identifying himself as the God of Israel. Copeland is way off.

What group would say such outrageous things? What group would have the nerve to perpetuate such blasphemous doctrines? Could it be the Jehovah's Witnesses? the Mormons? the Unitarians? the New Agers? Could it be—the Christians?

The Word-Faith Teachers​

The Word-Faith Teachers. This is the group that would seek to convince us that Jesus and His disciples were rich, that to be poor is a sin, to be sick is a sin, and that faith is a creative force that we can use to shape our world just like God supposedly created this world and universe that we live in through His "faith"!
Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Paul Crouch, John Avanzini, Robert Tilton, Fred Price, and Benny Hinn (who at the time of this writing has authored the number one best selling Christian book in America, "Good Morning, Holy Spirit") are just a few that spew out this theological vomit.

A Sampling of Error​

To name just a few of the more outrageous things that have been said by these so-called teachers will stagger the senses:
John Avanzini is convinced that "Jesus had a nice big house",(4) "Jesus wore designer clothes",(5) and "Jesus was handling big money".(6)
Fred Price also claims that Jesus was rich and that He left us with an example to follow. That is why Fred drives a Rolls Royce; he is following Jesus' example!
Mr. Price also communicates one of the more sickening beliefs of the Word-Faith teachers which shocks even those with a mild amount of common sense. He says, "How can you glorify God in your body, when it doesn't function right?....What makes you think the Holy Ghost wants to live inside of a body where He can't see out through the windows, and He can't hear out the ears?"(7) This insulting and insensitive comment regarding the handicapped and crippled among us stirs up anger in even the most hardened of consciences. Yet this statement by Mr. Price is followed by exuberant applause and approval from his congregation (I would like to hear Mr. Price say this to Joni Eareckson, or Tony Melendez).
These kind of statements boggle our minds and stagger our senses. It would seem that most people would see the error in these teachings, yet millions follow these men with a militant passion.

The Tip of the Iceberg​

If this was as far as the teaching of these men went, if their only error was that they think everyone should be wealthy and healthy, then we could maybe shrug this movement off as a novelty and realize that soon people with an ounce of common sense will see the error in these teachings. Unfortunately, these teachings are but the tip of the iceberg. They are but the rotten fruit of a foul, putrid, blasphemous and heretical root. The erroneous actions of the faith teachers is but the symptom of their twisted and diseased teachings concerning the nature of man and the nature of God. I think you will see, after examining what they believe in these two key areas, that we are not dealing with a Christian sect gone awry, but that we are dealing with a non-Christian heretical group that is as deadly in their doctrine as any major cult.

The Error Begins​

Who is God to the faith teachers? Kenneth Copeland will tell you first off that "God is the biggest failure in the Bible...the reason you've never thought that is because He never said He was one".(8)
Copeland also teaches us that "God is a being that stands somewhere around 6'2", 6'3",(9) intimating that God has a body, an error subscribed to by the Mormons. Copeland states, without any biblical warrant, that the earth we live on is a "copy of the mother planet"(10) which God lives on, again imitating a Mormon doctrine. Never mind that the Bible plainly states that God is spirit (John 4:24), never mind that the Bible never says a thing about this earth being a copy of any so-called mother planet. Yet these arguments don't work with the faith teachers because they have supposedly received these teachings by direct revelation from God. Therefore to oppose them is to oppose God. These men have lifted themselves above any critical investigation yet they have forgotten the biblical mandate that anything not in accord with the Word of God must be rejected. We will examine shortly their reactions to any kind of criticism.
After the faith teachers have thoroughly belittled God to slightly more than an exalted man, they then proceed to exalt man to the status of God. Adam, to the faith teachers, was an exact duplicate of God. Copeland teaches, "Gods reason for creating Adam was His desire to reproduce Himself. I mean a reproduction of Himself. He [Adam] was not a little like God, he was not almost like God, He was not subordinate to God even".(11) Copeland even states that "Adam is God manifested in the flesh",(12) a title that can only be truly applied to Christ Jesus alone.
The perceptive man can easily see that the problem here is a confusion about what it means to be made in the image of God. The faith teachers claim that being made in the image of God is synonymous to having the nature of God. To be made in the image of God is to be a "little god" they would admit. Yet is that what the church has commonly taught. The overwhelming consensus of the church has been that man is created in the image of God in the sense that he is a person as God is a person, possessing mind, will, and emotions, that he is reasonable, unique among creation, a ruler over creation, and capable of personal fellowship with God. We bear the image of God, but we do not share His nature or substance or make-up. We are not omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, or infinite. God is the only being that is holy in and of Himself (Rev. 15:4). We are made in His image and have dignity because of that, but we are not an exact duplicate of God in any sense of the word. That status is reserved for the Lord Jesus Christ alone (see Col 2:8, Heb. 1:3, 2 Cor. 4:4).

REFERENCES​

1. Kenneth Copeland, "The Force Of Love" tape # 02-0028
2. Kenneth Copeland, "Believer's Voice of Victory", Feb. 1987, p.9
3. Kenneth Copeland, "Believer's Voice of Victory" broadcast on TBN, recorded 7/9/87
4. John Avanzini, "Believer's Voice of Victory" broadcast on TBN, recorded 1/20/91
5. John Avanzini, "Believer's Voice of Victory" broadcast on TBN, recorded 1/20/91
6. John Avanzini, "Praise the Lord" broadcast on TBN, recorded 9/15/88
7. Fred Price, "Is God Glorified Through Sickness?" tape # FP605
8. Kenneth Copeland, "Praise-a-thon", broadcast on TBN, recorded 1988
9. Kenneth Copeland, "Spirit, Soul, and Body", tape # 01-0601
10. Kenneth Copeland, "Following the Faith of Abraham" tape # 01-3001
11. Kenneth Copeland, "Following the Faith of Abraham" tape # 01-3001
12. Kenneth Copeland, "Following the Faith of Abraham" tape # 01-3001
13. Kenneth Copeland, "Voice of Victory" Vol. 15, No. 2, 2/87
14. Kenneth Copeland, "What Happened from the Cross to the Throne" tape # 02-0017
15. Kenneth Hagin, "Word Of Faith" Dec. 1980, p. 14
16. Benny Hinn, "Our Position In Christ", tape # AO31190-1
17. Benny Hinn, "Praise-a-thon" broadcast on TBN, November, 1990
18. Kenneth Copeland, "Believer's Voice of Victory" broadcast on TBN, recorded 7/9/87
19. Kenneth Copeland, "The Force Of Love" tape # 02-0028
20. Paul Crouch, "Praise The Lord" broadcast on TBN, recorded 7/7/86
21. Benny Hinn, "Our Position In Christ", tape # AO31190-1
22. Benny Hinn broadcast, recorded 10/13/90
23. Paul Crouch, "Praise-a-thon" broadcast on TBN, recorded 4/2/91

From AN EXAMINATION OF THE WORD-FAITH MOVEMENT

The red parts were just a couple of things I added..

Mikecpking said:

We are not 'Elohim', but we are 'nephesh' (Gen 2:7). 'Image' and 'likeness' does not mean we are 'gods', but we have in our character attributes like creativity, spirituality, morality etc. This is how the Hebrews evisaged 'image'.

No one said anything about receiving worship. We are not little deities, but the bible clearly states in Isiah 44:6 there is only one God and there are not any little gods. Psalm 82:6 as been explained very clearly in a sperate thread which examines the whole WOF movement which I have posted.

I used to get 'Believers voice of victory' 20 years ago and was put off when Gloria Copeland was announced as 'Christian woman of the year'. A little later, I did theology and saw straight through what teachings like 'Jesus died spiritually', and other heresies were being taught. I even have close fiends sucked into this rubbish and worse still, my mother who died 3 1/2 years ago had a leaflet from Benny Hinn ministries by her bedside in hospital where she died with her check book with the leaflet stating more or less to the effect of "Send your money so God may heal your mortal body". I almost threw up.

The biblical view of man is we are not 'god's', but we are nephesh creatures (google it) and we are subject to death. If we become Christians, in now way could we do the same thing as Jesus on the cross and Jesus death on the cross ALONE is pays for our sin. Jesus was not born again in hell and nor was he tortured by Satan there, because all that is what we would call 'extra biblical'.

Click to expand...

I am not quite sure all your words have to do with my post. I suppose you, like many others, think that an abundance of words about things extraneous to the topic, in some way validates your point.

All your biting and scratching and kicking and screaming, accusastion and voluminous verbiage, doesn't mean anything to me. The only thing that matters to me is what scripture says. The scripture says this:

6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
-Psalm 82:6

The word translated 'gods' is elohim in the Hebrew. Elohim is a word that can be used to apply to The God, pagan gods, angels, or anyone with authority, as in humans annointed under the Old Covenant to operate in the ministry of prophet, priest, king, or judge. It is simply false to say that humans are never referred to as elohim in the Bible.




Under the New Covenant, all believers have the Holy Spirit and the annointing abiding in them. All believers are 'elohim' in the sense of delegated annointing and authority and dominion.

Secondly, your definition of image and likeness also means nothing. No prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. Not yours, and not mine. Scripture interprets itself. You want to know what image and likeness mean, look in the Bible. (I know that is a novel concept to some). But I will help you:

No, nowhere does the God state we are 'Elohim'.

The little Godmen

Mikecpking said:

No, nowhere does the God state we are 'Elohim'.

The little Godmen

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Sorry:

6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
-Psalm 82:6

You might not like it, but it says it.

Peace...

PS

Why are my posts not editing?

I am not quite sure all your words have to do with my post. I suppose you, like many others, think that an abundance of words about things extraneous to the topic, in some way validates your point.

All your biting and scratching and kicking and screaming, accusastion and voluminous verbiage, doesn't mean anything to me. The only thing that matters to me is what scripture says. The scripture says this:

6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
-Psalm 82:6

The word translated 'gods' is elohim in the Hebrew. Elohim is a word that can be used to apply to The God, pagan gods, angels, or anyone with authority, as in humans annointed under the Old Covenant to operate in the ministry of prophet, priest, king, or judge. It is simply false to say that humans are never referred to as elohim in the Bible.




Under the New Covenant, all believers have the Holy Spirit and the annointing abiding in them. All believers are 'elohim' in the sense of delegated annointing and authority and dominion.

Secondly, your definition of image and likeness also means nothing. No prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. Not yours, and not mine. Scripture interprets itself. You want to know what image and likeness mean, look in the Bible. (I know that is a novel concept to some). But I will help you:

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea,
and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle,
and over all the earth,
and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Ref: -Genesis 1:26-27 (KJV)

The words in our image are translated from the single Hebrew Word tselem:

Tselem
Strong’s 6754
Image
-Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible

The words after our likeness are translated from the single Hebrew Word dĕmuwth:

Dĕmuwth
Strong’s H1823
Likeness, Similitude
-Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible


What does it really mean to be made in the image and likeness of God?

3And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:
-Genesis 5:3

That should make it pretty plain for you. We were made in the image and likeness of God in the manner that a son is made in the image and likeness of his father. Doesn't really matter what you say to me. Only what the Bible says matters to me

NOTE:
Sorry, the original post wont let me edit it for some reason.

dkbwarrior said:

Sorry:

6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
-Psalm 82:6

You might not like it, but it says it.

Peace...

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And here is the rebuttal to your interpretation:

http://internetbiblecollege.net/Lessons/Are believers little gods.pdf

Little Gods: Are We little gods?

Speaking in Doctrines - Are we Little gods?

Here is a great explanation of the uses of teh word 'Elohim' throught scripture.

What is a God in the Bible? - YouTube

Mikecpking said:

And here is the rebuttal to your interpretation:

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I don't care about rebuttals. I only care about scripture.

Peace...

Mikecpking said:

And here is the rebuttal to your interpretation:

http://internetbiblecollege.net/Lessons/Are believers little gods.pdf

Little Gods: Are We little gods?

Speaking in Doctrines - Are we Little gods?

Click to expand...

You really need to quit surfing all the heretic hunters blogs for opinions that support your viewpoint, and read the Bible for yourself my friend.

Peace...

Mikecpking said:

No, nowhere does the God state we are 'Elohim'.

The little Godmen

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thanks for the link, which contains this statement
Hagin ...[The] believer is called Christ...That's who we are; we're Christ" (Zoe: The God-Kind of Life, 1989. pp. 35-36, 41)


Kenneth Hagin would never, and has never denied the Diety of Jesus Christ. I believe the author of your web site got that from cic.

here is cic

On page 110 of Christianity in crisis, Hank gives an explanation of what he considers not heretical, concerning the phrase “little gods” and I would like to point out, that what he considers not to be heretical, is the exact meaning that I understand from the word of faith movement, or at least what I have read of Rev. Kenneth Hagins writings.[ in red below is cic quote]
First, it should be pointed out that the phrase “little gods” may be unfortunate, but it is not heretical in and of itself, as long as it is not intended to convey that man is equal with, or a part of, God. The eastern orthodox church, for example, teaches that Christians are deified in the sense that they are adopted as the sons of God, indwelt by the Spirit of God which ultimately leads to glorification. They do not teach that mere humans are reproductions or exact duplicates of God. Thus their doctrine of deification is consistent with scripture and in keeping with a monotheistic worldview.


The title of the chapter this is taking out of context from is entitled "ruling and reigning in union with God" The scripture refrence is Romans 5:17

For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.

In the opening third paragraph, It states "He (man) was made to reign as a king under God.
The entire chapter deals with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, in reborn man.
1 Cor 3:16, 1 Cor 6:19-20, 2 Cor 6:16, I Jn 3:1-2, 1 Jn 5:1-2, 1 Jn 4:4

Kenneth Hagin is talking about being identified with Christ Jesus, we are the body and He is the head, in that chapter, He is also talking about our delagated authority.
He is talking about the fact that God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit dwells within us.

In conclusion I will state

My own understand of believe that I have constructed, from reading Rev. Kenneth Hagins writings is simply stated, We are sons of God, yes adopted, via of Christ Jesus, Indwelt by the Holy Spirit, which gives me authority and victory, over all the devices of the enemy, in the name of Jesus, when I exercise that authority, with faith and spoken word.