the PROOF is in the ........pudding???......

[JohnR7]

I have seen you state many times that the "opinions" of men regarding the data are in error. But whenever you make that statement, you never have what those opinions are.

You just stated an opinion. Your opinion here is that you do not think I have addressed the data that is in error. Actually, I address it often. So, your very question is a example of how man made opinions are often in error.

Of course if you had presented some evidence to back up your opinion, then we may take you a bit more serious, but without the evidence to back up your opinion, it is just another dime a dozen statement.

Now, let me ask you a question, is your main purpose to obtain more understanding, wisdom and knowledge. Or is your main objective here just to play cat and mouse with people?

 

[JohnR7]

Your conclusion: because God does not change, environments do not change.

That is not my conclusion at all. In fact my statement was not intended to be a conclusion. All I did was to say that not everything in this world changes. Love will always win out over hate, that never changes. Good will always win out over evil, that never changes. My wife usually end up getting what she wants, that never changes. There are some things that are just steadfast and consistant in life. They remain the same and they do not change.

 

[Tomk80]

That is not my conclusion at all. In fact my statement was not intended to be a conclusion. All I did was to say that not everything in this world changes. Love will always win out over hate, that never changes. Good will always win out over evil, that never changes. My wife usually end up getting what she wants, that never changes. There are some things that are just steadfast and consistant in life. They remain the same and they do not change.

Let's go back to what you wrote:

Some may consider that the cornerstone of evolutionary theory. That we live in a world that is always in a state of change. Change is what makes for evolutionary theory, because they deny that anything is steadfast and consistant. Yet God does not change, as we sing in church: "His love endures forever" The Bible tells us that Jesus will rule and reign forever and ever. So, once again, your claim that there are points that can not be refuted, have indeed been refuted.

The topic of the discussion was evolutionary theory. You wrote this argument in response to the claim that environments change. Hence, I do not consider it strange that I thought that your conclusion was that environments do not change.
I am not sure whether there are things that never change. However, that was not the focus of the discussion here. The focus of the discussion was whether environments change or not. That is an important argument in the discussion of evolution and that was the argument you adressed with the quote above. No matter whether there are things that do or do not change is irrelevant, since it is observed that environments change.

 

[Nathan Poe]

You just stated an opinion. Your opinion here is that you do not think I have addressed the data that is in error. Actually, I address it often. So, your very question is a example of how man made opinions are often in error.

"Actually, I address it often" is a statement of opinion. how often is "often" is a matter of opinion.

Whether or not you address it at all is a question of fact. To date, I have never seen you address it.

Of course if you had presented some evidence to back up your opinion, then we may take you a bit more serious, but without the evidence to back up your opinion, it is just another dime a dozen statement.

You sir, will get the bill for my Irony Meter.

Now, let me ask you a question, is your main purpose to obtain more understanding, wisdom and knowledge. Or is your main objective here just to play cat and mouse with people?

John, you honestly have nothing of value to say, do you?

 

[Tomk80]

I would be glad for you to present your evidence in regards to the flat earth thing.

Indeed, you are right. Whether the flat earth was a widely held belief in medieval christianity is at best questionable. Let me rephrase that. Galileo ring a bell?

 

[Jet Black]

I would be glad for you to present your evidence in regards to the flat earth thing.

if the earth was a sphere, everything would slip off.

 

[lucaspa]

I would be glad for you to present your evidence in regards to the flat earth thing.

The cosmology of the Bible is that of the Babylonians, which had a flat earth with a vault for "heaven". As such, the cosmology is embedded in several passages of the OT. These are: Genesis 1:2-8, Genesis 7:12, Isaiah 40:21-22, Job 22:14, Job 37:18, and finally Daniel 4:11. The passage in Daniel can only be literally true if the earth is flat, otherwise the view is impossible on a spherical earth. Isaiah 40:22 refers to the earth as a circle, but I remind you that a circle still lies all in one plane and is flat and in Isaiah is the word "ball" for a round object! Finally, there are astronomical sections in the noncanonical but influential Book of Enoch that refer to the earth as flat.

These passages led early Church fathers like Lactantius, Tertullian, and Clement of Alexandria to be flat-earthers. About 550 AD Cosmas Indicopleustes published Christian Topography that explicitly spelled out a flat earth.

So, taking the Bible only, it says flat earth. What you have done is so accepted the extrabiblical knowlege and so completely re-interpreted the passages non-literally that you have forgotten that this is what you have done. So, if you can do that for flat earth, why not for Genesis 1-3?

The Bible states in plain Hebrew that the earth is immovable. Job 26:7, I Chronicles 16:30, Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10, and Psalm 104:5. And there are still Christians around today that argue from that the earth is the center of the solar system!

 

[JohnR7]

John, you honestly have nothing of value to say, do you?

You have maybe never been more wrong in your life. I have lots of things of value to say. You just do not have ears to hear.

 

[JohnR7]

The cosmology of the Bible is that of the Babylonians, which had a flat earth with a vault for "heaven".

Come on lucaspa, present your evidence. What causes you to believe that the Babylonians were "flat earthers".

 

[The Bellman]

You have maybe never been more wrong in your life. I have lots of things of value to say. You just do not have ears to hear.

You do? That's great! When will you start to actually say them?

 

[JohnR7]

You do? That's great! When will you start to actually say them?

When you people start to listen.

 

[The Bellman]

When you people start to listen.

Oh, okay. I guess all the stuff you've been posting - none of us are even listening to. As soon as we see "JohnR7" we immediately disregard it. Is that right? Can you say "paranoia"?

 

[Nathan Poe]

When you people start to listen.

When you say "listen," does that mean "automatically assume you're correct?"

 

[JohnR7]

When you say "listen," does that mean "automatically assume you're correct?"

No, I mean literal listen. I may as well be talking to a wall, because they just do not hear or comprehend what I am saying. You teach high school. You could not take your teaching material and use it to teach a class of first graders, it will just go right over their head, they will not understand the lesson.

If you have time and patience of course eventually, you will get the first grader up to a high school level. But it takes time. I have said many times on this board that you have people here with advanced degrees in science, but when it comes to their knowledge of the Bible they are not at a third grade level.

Some people have taken that to heart and they are doing more to learn what the Bible has to teach us. Others are more hard headed, hard hearted or they just don't care what God has to offer to us in His written word.

 

[JohnR7]

I guess all the stuff you've been posting

I do not post that much. Like I said, people have to be receptive to learning. If they do not want to apply themselves to learn, then there is nothing you can do to teach them. It is to bad that there are people who have closed themselves off from the truth. But on the other hand there are plenty of people who are interested in learning, and that keeps us plenty busy trying to help them.

 

[Physics_guy]

If you have time and patience of course eventually, you will get the first grader up to a high school level. But it takes time. I have said many times on this board that you have people here with advanced degrees in science, but when it comes to their knowledge of the Bible they are not at a third grade level.

Have you bothered to learn any science? Certainly doesn't seem so from your postings.

Hypocrite much?

 

[JohnR7]

Have you bothered to learn any science?

Sure, I learned a little bit of science when I was in the 6 grade. Do you want to have a conversation about science?

 

[Nathan Poe]

No, I mean literal listen. I may as well be talking to a wall, because they just do not hear or comprehend what I am saying. You teach high school. You could not take your teaching material and use it to teach a class of first graders, it will just go right over their head, they will not understand the lesson.

The problem, John, is that we have listened, all too well. You want to use the Bible as a science textbook.

If you have time and patience of course eventually, you will get the first grader up to a high school level. But it takes time. I have said many times on this board that you have people here with advanced degrees in science, but when it comes to their knowledge of the Bible they are not at a third grade level.

maybe the problem is you're teaching the wrong course. As a teacher, I can tell you you don't bring a Math book to an English class.

You're bringing a Bible to a science discussion, and for the life of you, can't understand why we don't see it as useful as you do.

Some people have taken that to heart and they are doing more to learn what the Bible has to teach us. Others are more hard headed, hard hearted or they just don't care what God has to offer to us in His written word.

And that has what to do with the topic at hand?

 

[Nathan Poe]

Sure, I learned a little bit of science when I was in the 6 grade. Do you want to have a conversation about science?

That's what we do on this forum, Johnny. Maybe you haven't noticed...

 

[JohnR7]

That's what we do on this forum, Johnny. Maybe you haven't noticed...

I notice a lot of things.
For example. I notice that you need to grow up and quit acting so immature.
You must get along great with your students, your right at their level.