• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

The promise of the fifth commandment?

k4c

Well-Known Member
Nov 3, 2003
4,278
39
Rhode Island
✟4,820.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Exodus 20:12 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

Ephesians 6:1-2 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. "Honor your father and mother,'' which is the first commandment with promise: "that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.''

Under the New Covenant is the promise attached to the fifth commandment still available to Christians who obey the fifth commandment?
 

VictorC

Jesus - that's my final answer
Mar 25, 2008
5,228
479
Northern Colorado
✟29,537.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Exodus 20:12 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

Ephesians 6:1-2 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. "Honor your father and mother,'' which is the first commandment with promise: "that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.''

Under the New Covenant is the promise attached to the fifth commandment still available to Christians who obey the fifth commandment?
Shouldn't you be asking yourself whatever happened to the first four commandments in light of the fifth from that covenant is here referred to as the first commandment?
 
Upvote 0

StormyOne

Senior Veteran
Aug 21, 2005
5,424
47
65
Alabama
✟5,866.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Strike-Two Stormy...You never did look up Proverbs 26:17, did you?

don't need to, since everyone who participates in this forum can speak for themselves.... as for the strikes, this ain't baseball, and last I checked you aren't the umpire....
 
Upvote 0

VictorC

Jesus - that's my final answer
Mar 25, 2008
5,228
479
Northern Colorado
✟29,537.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Obviously, VictorC is not interested in any blessing that Jesus has for him, and that is his final answer.
I don't think your observation conveys any weight when you're unable to state anything obvious about it. When you came onto this forum, you showed us that you didn't know what the ten commandments was or what its origin was, and from that point on you have consistently refused to provide a Biblical answer for the things you believe in, or even answer simple questions that were asked of you.

Adventism has a mission to advance a weekly sabbath that isn't compliant with the law that ordained it, which may explain why you don't comprehend that law. The message Biblical Christianity promotes is our entrance into God's rest that the sabbath was designed to lead us into, and it is that message of God's redemption that I have consistently adhered to. If you don't perceive that as a blessing from Jesus, it is your burden to provide an answer for your hope found elsewhere using Scripture.
 
Upvote 0

sdadoug

Newbie
Sep 1, 2006
69
2
✟15,199.00
Faith
SDA
I don't think your observation conveys any weight when you're unable to state anything obvious about it. When you came onto this forum, you showed us that you didn't know what the ten commandments was or what its origin was, and from that point on you have consistently refused to provide a Biblical answer for the things you believe in, or even answer simple questions that were asked of you.

Adventism has a mission to advance a weekly sabbath that isn't compliant with the law that ordained it, which may explain why you don't comprehend that law. The message Biblical Christianity promotes is our entrance into God's rest that the sabbath was designed to lead us into, and it is that message of God's redemption that I have consistently adhered to. If you don't perceive that as a blessing from Jesus, it is your burden to provide an answer for your hope found elsewhere using Scripture.

Where the answers given are not agreeable to you they are ignored. Is the Jesus you are "following" the same one who said this?

Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
:19 "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I'm sure this scripture is one of many all ready pointed out to you before. I see no way anyone can truthfully get around it. It seems pretty clear to me that you are the one who has some work to do on his logic.
 
Upvote 0

Cribstyl

Veteran
Jun 13, 2006
8,993
2,068
✟108,451.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Exodus 20:12 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

Ephesians 6:1-2 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. "Honor your father and mother,'' which is the first commandment with promise: "that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.''

Under the New Covenant is the promise attached to the fifth commandment still available to Christians who obey the fifth commandment?
I suspect that you're trying to validate the sabbath as still binding using the no scripture approach.

The the sabbath commandment was ceromonial, and that's why it is not commanded anywhere in the New Testament.

Yes, 9 of the 10 are restated in some form in the New Testament, but not the ceromonial commandment.

Your commentary of Eph6:1-2 evades the lesson objective and commands given in Ephesians chapters 5&6 about "How to be followers of God"...... Eph 5:1Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;



Sabbath is not listed here "The 10 commandment are not being presented as the law going forward."
Yes....We do find commands relating to some of the ten, but much more.
Tell us which of the ten references the underlined?
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

From Eph 5:22 Paul is begins talking about how Christian individuals and families should conduct themselves.
In this context Paul does reference Genesis 1 about the creation institution of marriage, but no mention of the sabbath.Eph 5:31.

----------------------------------------------------

The problem with your study is, you're trying to prove that sabbath still exists for Christians without 1 scripture giving such a command.:doh::doh::doh:

Your arguments is against the word of God in the NT, because we present texts not commentary.

You will argue against these scriptures to the Romans saying as follows; (time of worship is exclusively between a man and His God)

Rom 14:5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

You will argue against these scriptures to the Corinthians saying as follows; (the law is done away with)
2Cr 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Cr 3:7¶But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which [glory] was to be done away:
2Cr 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

You will argue against these scriptures to the Galatians; (we not under the law)
Gal 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.


Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

You will argue against texts written to the Colossians;

ESV - Col 2:16 -Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.



Now tell me, should I take your word and ignor what Jesus command the Gentile nations to believe?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

VictorC

Jesus - that's my final answer
Mar 25, 2008
5,228
479
Northern Colorado
✟29,537.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Where the answers given are not agreeable to you they are ignored.
Up to this point, you haven't provided any answers. You merely concluded the Biblical record concerning the origin of the ten commandments "peculiar" and "bizarre", and from thence embarked on ad hominem to show you didn't have anything more to add.
Is the Jesus you are "following" the same one who said this?

Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
:19 "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
It certainly is. Look at the greater context of His presentation found in Matthew 5:

17 ¶ "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
19 "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 "For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.


Jesus indicated that His intent was to fulfill the law and the prophets, and nothing concerning Him was going to fail until it was fulfilled. He did this in His propitiation as a Lamb without spot or blemish, something that fallen mankind is unqualified to do. Jesus confirmed this meaning of His intent after His resurrection, in this account found in Luke 24:

44 Then He said to them, "These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."
45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.


Remember that Matthew 5 was spoken during the tenure of the first covenant. The new covenant was not established until the death of the Testator completed the law, as shown in Hebrews 9:15-17. Can I trust you to look up that passage on your own?

Jesus went on in verse 20 to show that your righteousness dictated under the first covenant needed to exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees. The example Jesus selected was the subset of Jewish society that knew the law better than anyone else, and their zealous affection for the law makes yours pale in comparison - they were the subject who caused the Jerusalem council recorded in Acts 15 to convene, and their insistence to abide by the law mediated by Moses was rejected at that council. Can I trust you to read that passage on your own?

The righteousness attained by abiding by the law would not grant entrance into the kingdom of heaven. Paul confirms this in Galatians 4:30, as the reason we are to cast off the first covenant is that those remaining in the first covenant will not grant you any promise of eternal life: Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman."

Righteousness by the law you do not comply with will not grant you eternal life, nor even reconcile you to God for your transgressions that remain unredeemed. As Galatians 2:21 concludes, "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain".
I'm sure this scripture is one of many all ready pointed out to you before. I see no way anyone can truthfully get around it. It seems pretty clear to me that you are the one who has some work to do on his logic.
Perhaps you could learn the Gospel instead of calling it "peculiar" and "bizzare". Adventism doesn't acknowledge God's redemption when Jesus Christ fulfilled the law by His propitiation. Hebrews 9:15 is one of those passages that can't be reconciled with the writings of Ellen White: "for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance". Adventism has left you under the first covenant, sabbath and all, and has placed the mandate to redeem your own transgressions by your own merit, and you are not a lamb without spot or blemish.

It becomes incumbant on you to fulfill the law if you assert that Jesus didn't. Good luck, Mr Phelps.
You still haven't mentioned what you found to be a blessing outside entrance into God's rest.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

VictorC

Jesus - that's my final answer
Mar 25, 2008
5,228
479
Northern Colorado
✟29,537.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Why did you allow Victor to derail this thread from its subject matter?
My goodness, it's the pot calling the kettle black! I remember your derailment of another thread in this forum recently, to the point you never responded to the OP. I answered a post directed to me, which is something we don't see from you very often.
 
Upvote 0

bugkiller

Well-Known Member
May 16, 2015
17,773
2,629
✟95,400.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Exodus 20:12 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

Ephesians 6:1-2 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. "Honor your father and mother,'' which is the first commandment with promise: "that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.''

Under the New Covenant is the promise attached to the fifth commandment still available to Christians who obey the fifth commandment?
Notice any difference in the two quotes?

bugkiller
927154.gif
 
Upvote 0

bugkiller

Well-Known Member
May 16, 2015
17,773
2,629
✟95,400.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Where the answers given are not agreeable to you they are ignored. Is the Jesus you are "following" the same one who said this?

Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
:19 "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I'm sure this scripture is one of many all ready pointed out to you before. I see no way anyone can truthfully get around it. It seems pretty clear to me that you are the one who has some work to do on his logic.
Here is a great example of Jesus upholding the law: 1Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.2And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Recognize it? John 8:1-11. Before you say much realize that Jesus knew she had committed adultery and told her not to do it again. This is in direct violation of the law, and by God too. She got forgiveness without even asking.
bugkiller
927154.gif
 
Upvote 0

bugkiller

Well-Known Member
May 16, 2015
17,773
2,629
✟95,400.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Up to this point, you haven't provided any answers. You merely concluded the Biblical record concerning the origin of the ten commandments "peculiar" and "bizarre", and from thence embarked on ad hominem to show you didn't have anything more to add.

It certainly is. Look at the greater context of His presentation found in Matthew 5:

17 ¶ "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
19 "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 "For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus indicated that His intent was to fulfill the law and the prophets, and nothing concerning Him was going to fail until it was fulfilled. He did this in His propitiation as a Lamb without spot or blemish, something that fallen mankind is unqualified to do. Jesus confirmed this meaning of His intent after His resurrection, in this account found in Luke 24:

44 Then He said to them, "These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."
45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

Remember that Matthew 5 was spoken during the tenure of the first covenant. The new covenant was not established until the death of the Testator completed the law, as shown in Hebrews 9:15-17. Can I trust you to look up that passage on your own?

Jesus went on in verse 20 to show that your righteousness dictated under the first covenant needed to exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees. The example Jesus selected was the subset of Jewish society that knew the law better than anyone else, and their zealous affection for the law makes yours pale in comparison - they were the subject who caused the Jerusalem council recorded in Acts 15 to convene, and their insistence to abide by the law mediated by Moses was rejected at that council. Can I trust you to read that passage on your own?

The righteousness attained by abiding by the law would not grant entrance into the kingdom of heaven. Paul confirms this in Galatians 4:30, as the reason we are to cast off the first covenant is that those remaining in the first covenant will not grant you any promise of eternal life: Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman."

Righteousness by the law you do not comply with will not grant you eternal life, nor even reconcile you to God for your transgressions that remain unredeemed. As Galatians 2:21 concludes, "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain".

Perhaps you could learn the Gospel instead of calling it "peculiar" and "bizzare". Adventism doesn't acknowledge God's redemption when Jesus Christ fulfilled the law by His propitiation. Hebrews 9:15 is one of those passages that can't be reconciled with the writings of Ellen White: "for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance". Adventism has left you under the first covenant, sabbath and all, and has placed the mandate to redeem your own transgressions by your own merit, and you are not a lamb without spot or blemish.

It becomes incumbant on you to fulfill the law if you assert that Jesus didn't. Good luck, Mr Phelps.
You still haven't mentioned what you found to be a blessing outside entrance into God's rest.
mega-icon-smiley-thumbs-up.jpg
If you hadn't given him the Luke 24:44, I sure would have.

bugkiller
927154.gif
 
Upvote 0

k4c

Well-Known Member
Nov 3, 2003
4,278
39
Rhode Island
✟4,820.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Here is a great example of Jesus upholding the law: 1Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.2And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Recognize it? John 8:1-11. Before you say much realize that Jesus knew she had committed adultery and told her not to do it again. This is in direct violation of the law, and by God too. She got forgiveness without even asking.
bugkiller
927154.gif

This is a beautiful picture of God's grace in the Gospel message under the new covenant.

We are all guilty of sin but Jesus did not come to condemn us, He came to save us.

John 3:17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

The woman was guilty of adultery and deserved punishment under the old covenant. But instead of punishment she was given grace. But does this grace release her from obeying the Law? No way. Why? Because of the five little words Jesus uses at the end, "Go, and sin no more"

If you understand the verses you quoted, in light of the five little words Jesus used at the end, you will understand Romans 6.

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!

Don't let Satan blind you to these very powerful little words at the end of the verses you quoted, "Go, and sin no more".
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

VictorC

Jesus - that's my final answer
Mar 25, 2008
5,228
479
Northern Colorado
✟29,537.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
This is a beautiful picture of God's grace in the Gospel message under the new covenant.
What has eluded you is that the example provided happened during the tenure of the old covenant, not the new, and mercy was extended by violating the law.
 
Upvote 0

k4c

Well-Known Member
Nov 3, 2003
4,278
39
Rhode Island
✟4,820.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What has eluded you is that the example provided happened during the tenure of the old covenant, not the new, and mercy was extended by violating the law.

What has eluded you is that these are new covenant verses.

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!
 
Upvote 0

VictorC

Jesus - that's my final answer
Mar 25, 2008
5,228
479
Northern Colorado
✟29,537.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
What has eluded you is that these are new covenant verses.

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!
You appear to have reached a conclusion that violation of the law is the means by which mercy is extended, which is consistent with Romans 11:32: "God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all". Adding quotes encouraging us to abstain from sin doesn't address transgressions under the law that isn't binding anymore, and the apparently elusive character of such encouragement that isn't given to those who don't sin.
 
Upvote 0

k4c

Well-Known Member
Nov 3, 2003
4,278
39
Rhode Island
✟4,820.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You appear to have reached a conclusion that violation of the law is the means by which mercy is extended, which is consistent with Romans 11:32: "God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all". Adding quotes encouraging us to abstain from sin doesn't address transgressions under the law that isn't binding anymore, and the apparently elusive character of such encouragement that isn't given to those who don't sin.

You still don't get it...

Oh well I guess that's just the way it is...

Bye now...:wave:
 
Upvote 0