The problem with protestantism...division

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Hello everyone, my name is Luxi, very happy to be here, thank you for the care.

Happy to have you here, happy!

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Also, it depends on what is meant by 'fully right'.

If you only emphasise a small core of essential doctrines than you may dare to present yourself as fully right.

Just so! IMO, there are many churches that are fully right on those. And so there are many churches I'm willing to fellowship with.

But it would be a brave (and foolish) denomination to set yourself the tasks of extracting from the bible timeless Truths and in addition sufficient principles to cover ALL of life's challenges. (A bit like a Torah or Sharia-based application)

Too ambitious. I'm never seen a church try that and not get a lot of it, or even most of it, wrong.

The other issue of course is whether the bible ever offers itself to be used in this way.

It doesn't. So when people try that approach, it's not so much what they read in the Bible, but what they read into it. AKA eisegesis.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

The hand of God is behind the limitation. The inability is already there in man. To put it simply , the limitation exists because man is not God. The Christian religion does not teach and never has taught that we become all knowing. Only God is all knowing.

In other words , we only know what God has chosen to reveal to us. No person in history had the ability to figure it out.

Very well put! I was meaning to get back to this, and that's about what I would have said, but probably not nearly as well.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Your first sentence makes me wonder this: so it is God's will that there be doctrinal division in Christianity?

In a sense. I think God would prefer us to not squabble so much, much like a human parent with a house full of contentious children. But He made a world in which we see through a glass darkly, and will only know the fullness of truth in the next life. We can know more than other humans if He chooses to reveal more to us (as Paul knew more through direct revelation), but none of us is going to know it all.

1 Corinthians 13:12
Good News Translation (GNT)

12 What we see now is like a dim image in a mirror; then we shall see face-to-face. What I know now is only partial; then it will be as complete as God's knowledge of me.

 

[Johnnz]

There were obviously some doctrinal differences in the Corinthian church. Paul's approach in chs 1-4 is not to say "here is the correct version" but to give principles that allow unity within difference. He did the same thing with debatable issues too, (e.g. food, holy days) with conclusions that aided unity and demonstrated love. His principles should still govern our lives today when facing family members who hold to teachings that differ from ours.

John
NZ

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"Is it avoidable?"

NO!!!! - it isn't, and will continue until God's timing, and then HE will do what us "Depraved Humans" are totally incapable of, and bring it together for the end of the age.

 

[Norah63]

wow, I really appreciated the words of LanceCohen.
That's why i love to read on the forums.
yes, so many are just worshiping at the bible more than the living word.
As we live our lives, just let the world look on, and see what wonders that grace works through each one.
Let us each be a plank in the bridge of faith.

 

[ChristianRealist]

Agree with the article for the most part. Even if there's a greater risk of divisiveness, it's worth it, because diversity of viewpoints facilitates the search for Truth. But I do think that it's avoidable if churches learn to deal with diversity. For example, instead of having a majority lord it over the minority, they can tolerate different points of view and make sure that they're well represented.

 

[Alive_Again]

.."More often than not, crisis is born of contention, and for better or worse, Evangelicalism is a naturally contentious movement.

I don't wish to offend our Catholic friends, but it must be realized that the reformation was a GOOD thing. It came out of great religious oppression and persecution. For centuries, church leadership exercised great control over the scriptures, evening killing (as heretics) those who endeavored to release the Word to the church at large.

When Martin Luther did his thing, he hid because he knew "the church" as it called itself, would be out to kill him (which they were). The church for centuries were guilty of MANY heinous sins.

Think about the crusades. The promises they made to the "Christian soldiers", the monies they collected. The Jews they killed. None of it was of God. To this day, many Muslims would rather trust Jews than Christians because Christians killed Jews.

Then their is the conferring of and endorsing of titles based on loyalty to "the church". The confiscation of lands and feudal taxes. Bishops of "the state". How about the inquisition? The church strayed far from the Word of God.

For Martin Luther to declare salvation by grace alone and to suffer persecution (literally for the cross of Christ) was a great and honorable thing. It was not a contentious movement. It was one that was born from liberty in the Spirit.

Once the Protestant Reformers determined to promote the authority of ‘Scripture alone’ over the magisterium of the Church, the resultant prerogative of interpretation led, almost inevitably, to divergence, tension and fissure.

Catholics themselves should celebrate the reformation, but they cannot because it undermines the authority of man over the church. Where grace and liberty triumph, man takes a back seat. Where the authority of the scripture is magnified, the doctrines of men are diminished. When the reliance on the Holy Spirit to guide and to teach are proclaimed, the doctrine of the Nicolatians (ruler of man) are put to naught. "Scripture alone" presumes that the Holy Spirit no longer confirms the Word with signs following. The true test of a church, are its signs/fruits. The presence of God and the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Is the church experiencing it? If not, God does not agree with what is being preached, because He only confirms the Word.

The whole ethos of Protestantism – its theological basis, the behavioural patterns it inculcates, its attitudinal emphasis and its authority structure – make it inherently liable to schism and fragmentation.

Schism from form without power. If a doctrine does not have life in it, it promotes the freedom to lay it down and listen to the Spirit of God direct the church back to the Word which abides forever.

...By its very nature it encourages individuality, stresses personal faith and promotes distinctive individual or group expressions of faith and practice.

Yes! If you can't have church and the presence of God on your own, or in your own home, you don't have anything. You can experience God every day in every place. The gathering together of the church, however important, is only a small part of the Christian life.

Such characteristics ensure a large measure of personal and corporate creativity; but they almost guarantee divisiveness …

[FONT=&quot]Divisiveness? If the church follows the dictates of the Spirit of God, their will be unity. The greater the unity and fruit of the Spirit, the more of the Lordship of Jesus is evident. Outside of this is lifeless form and churches who do this deny the power it itself proclaims. Let the chips fall where they may!

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[Alive_Again]

I think that a lot of the disunity is a smokescreen erected by leaders of churches to give a reason why people should be loyal to their group. I think a lot of it boils down to jealousy and money. More people in your church means more influence and more money. This is what I believe was behind the Pharisees elaborate system. It is a way to control the people.

One thing that I really like about Spirit led churches, is that they typically don't care about how many members they have. They are not out to control your life. They want you to grow up in the Spirit, being strong in your own spirit, having the Word live and abide in you. They want you to give something for God to work with. God is on your side.

They point people to God and not to themselves. They don't care who gets the credit. They realize that it is the Holy Spirit that must lead them for them to be successful.

If it is man centered or personality centered, it will fail. Spirit led pastors realize that only God can grow up a young sheep into a full grown ram. He does use those He has anointed to led and to serve, but the servant looks to God and not to the sheep. The servant teaches the sheep to listen for the true shepherd. True five fold ministers point people to God and give Him all of the glory. They realize they can do nothing. They want to teach you a reliance on receiving direction from God. To be able to judge what you hear in your spirit, to have discernment. This is the only way to be able to avoid deception.

They want you to bear abundant fruit in your life. They want you to draw from the anointing that abides within, that teaches you to abide in Him. They stress love and faith and hope. They preach liberty and if any of these fruits diminish, they encourage you to go find the church God wants to bless you in. Only when you follow the plan of God for your life, can you experience abundant fruit, the precious promises of God coming true for you.

While we need money, and the church needs money, it's not about money or programs. It's about winning people to the kingdom and teaching them to receive and to bless others.