The problem with legalism

[~Zao~]

what

Quote for truth Tru dat!

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

what

quoted for truth

 

[Jenniferdiana]

haha i meant to say when he is revealed in us in the little things we do everyday, we begin to see he is truly in us and working in us and that we are growing in him completely

 

[Jenniferdiana]

quoted for truth

ok..

 

[Jenniferdiana]

Quote for truth Tru dat!

ha..ok

 

[Wordkeeper]

Search for Spirit convicts of sin. That would have saved you time.

No we would have saved on time if you had stayed on topic. @Emli was discussing how believers responded correctly through the Holy Spirit.

You accused her of thinking she was in control of the process.

Hammster said: ↑
Because you don’t understand what it means to actually be a sheep. You think there’s some sort of goat transformation in there. You think staying a sheep, or at least staying in His flock, is somehow dependent upon you.

So until your understanding is correct, we cannot go deeper.

Your subsequent answers were considered to be on topic, but apparently you were claiming that unbelievers were being forced to become believers.

We can discuss that too, but maybe in another thread. Here we would like your answers to be focused on the topic of believers and their views on doing good works.

 

[Hammster]

No we would have saved on time if you had stayed on topic. @Emli was discussing how believers responded correctly through the Holy Spirit.

You accused her of thinking she was in control of the process.

Hammster said: ↑
Because you don’t understand what it means to actually be a sheep. You think there’s some sort of goat transformation in there. You think staying a sheep, or at least staying in His flock, is somehow dependent upon you.

So until your understanding is correct, we cannot go deeper.

Your subsequent answers were considered to be on topic, but apparently you were claiming that unbelievers were being forced to become believers.

We can discuss that too, but maybe in another thread. Here we would like your answers to be focused on the topic of believers and their views on doing good works.

Is this your thread?

 

[Jenniferdiana]

haha btw what the heck does legalism mean ? it sounds like a political word.

 

[Jenniferdiana]

haha i looked up the word so i guess it does has something to do with the political world, btw for some reason this crazy thought popped up in my head while reading the definition of that word..do you think its possible that the antichrist or however you call it, would place himself in a position in the political world? lol no seriously the definition says its the place where people try to gain power..i mean wouldnt it make sense for the antichrist to achieve s position in that place or "world" since. being in that area or department would give him a chance to gain much power and yet a chance to decieve the whole world at the same time..haha i like to think that place would be the role he would play a big part of..since he cant gain power nowhere else in this world since God is in complete control of everything..haha i dont.know..lol maybe i ate too much key lime pie and i am talking out of my head..lol please ignore me..im weird..

 

[Wordkeeper]

Is this your thread?

Does starting the thread absolve you of giving relevant answers?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Legalism is strict adherence to God's commands.

I had hoped the OP was about "Legalism" in the sense of what the Pharisees did, something that I just don't see happen very often at all around here, if at all. But whatever the case, in the end, even when Jesus spoke to the Pharisees about the junk they were doing, the true legalism, he told the people they should still follow the rules/do as they say. Look for yourselves.

Matthew 23:1-4 ESV / 165 helpful votes
Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, so practice and observe whatever they tell you—but not what they do. For they preach, but do not practice. They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger.

IOW they acted badly, they didn't practice what they preached, or, they did not DO what they were supposed to DO....meaning, we have to "DO".

Yet somewhere along the line they started using the term "legalism" to mean we don't have to be concerned about the rules. Why? Same as I always say, because people would rather not follow the rules so they took the original term "Legalism" and made it appear to mean something other than what it does as a means to confuse....not at all a good thing.

Hopefully some can now see, right there in the original "legalism" scripture exactly what it really means. The following is just someones definition but I like it, as it pretty well sums up the facts, but we have to see all the facts, not just the ones we choose to see.

Legalism refers to any doctrine which states salvation comes strictly from adherence to the law. It can be thought of as a works-based religion. Groups in the New Testament said to be falling into this category include the Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes, Judaizers, and Nicolaitans.
Legalism (theology) - Wikipedia
Search for: Pharisees legalism

It does not come strictly from adherence to the rules...just partially.

People often use things like the following scripture to make the point doing good has nothing to do with salvation:

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

So...what happens when one loses that faith...where in the bible does it say that cannot happen? As a matter of fact, the bible states one can and does "fall away"...look it up.

And for the umpteenth time there is this scripture, spoken by Jesus himself, that shows beyond any doubt, doing good/not doing bad, is a must for salvation:

John 5:28-29 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

How can that be more simply put? Those "who have done" meaning an action. It is a must for salvation to "DO", and to DO evil WILL get us just what the Bible/Jesus says it will, right there.

 

[Emli]

You need to make up your mind. Does your new nature sin, or not? You cannot have both. And if we “lose” our salvation, then God’s promise is null and void.

I've already made up my mind, and I have been very clear.
The new nature does not sin, but we still do. There is still the flesh waging waging war against the Spirit. If we choose the flesh, we reject the Spirit.
And God's promises are only for those who love Him, for those who do not reject His Spirit, but who continue with Him. If you reject Christ and His teachings, then His Blood won't cover your sins. Because His covenant are for those who are predestined to be conformed to His image in Him, not for those who continue in their old ways. If you are not being conformed, you are not His.

It's not that complicated.

 

[Emli]

That doesn't show much faith in the ability of God that began the progressive work of a new nature with Adam and Eve. They were considered vessels of honor from what I can tell. Vessels that have the work outlined for them in the New Testament. Outwardly or inwardly only God can see what is full of deadman's bones.

2 Timothy 2
19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”
20 In a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay; some are for special purposes and some for common use. 21 Those who cleanse themselves from the latter will be instruments for special purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work.

I do not have faith in a God who forces vessels to be cleansed. I believe in a God who cleanses those who wants to be cleansed, and He already knows who they are.

I'll quote the verse you quoted:
"Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”

Will someone who God knows are His stay in their wickedness?
If someone stays in their wickedness, do you believe that God thinks of them as His?

Do you believe that Adam and Eve had no choice? Was God making them sin? Was the serpent controlling them? I believe that they had the free will choice, and that God responded accordingly to what He knew that they were going to do. His plan to save mankind through Jesus was planned from before the creation of the world. But His plan has never been to cause people to sin, and He cannot do so. But He gives us the way out of temptation and He saves us from the consequences of sin if we choose Him once He gives us the option to choose Him. He is a good God, not an evil god.

 

[mark kennedy]

The Royal Law is loving your neighbor (Which would include loving your brother).
James was talking about how the believers he was writing to had given unkind treatment to the poor brethren, and they gave good treatment to the rich brethren. They had respect of persons or favoritism and were not loving those who are poor (i.e. rich in faith). But I am not sure how my explaining this helps to prove Belief Alone Salvationism in any way. The whole chapter is geared towards the point that if you do not have works, your faith is dead (James 2:17). The point here is that by their transgressing the 2nd commandment, they are breaking all of God's laws. James says that they need to have works. Works of faith; And not works of the Law (i.e. the Law of Moses). For even the demons believe and tremble.



I can say the same thing from my experience.



Okay. Stop talking like you know the original languages. You don't know them. You did not grow up speaking these languages as a child in Bible times. There is no Apostle Paul to correct you. It's like you are talking Morse code or confusion. Just explain to me what James says in the English please. If you cannot tell me what James says in context in the English, then you are not actually referring to any kind of real context all, but you are referring to something you plucked out of some religious dictionary that fits to your liking or belief. The English was translated from the original languages. By your having to look to some other language, it's as if you are saying you know more than the translators or it's if you are saying God did not preserve His Word in our world language today. If you cannot speak to me using the Bible using the plain English, then this conversation is not going to go anywhere fast.



And the context says,

"Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:" (Colossians 3:5-6).

This lines up with Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, 1 John 3:15, Revelation 21:8.



There are about 1,000 + commands in the New Testament. Not sure how you think there are no rules in the good book. It's a book. It has rules. It's a rule book. It's really simple. But you appear to not know there are no rules in the good book? For you said it is not a rule book. Yet, it is a book and it has rules in it. Granted, this book is primarily about having a relationship with GOD and in knowing His love, and peace, but the rules go hand in hand with walking with GOD. Also,

Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).
Jesus says if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17).
Paul says a person can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16).
Paul says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of holiness, he is proud and he knows nothing (See 1 Timothy 6:3-4).
The grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (See Titus 2:11-12).

Jason,

It took me a while to get to this post, I really want to address these issues. You wanted to bring up the things we must put to death certain things, would you care to elaborate?

As to another point, I don't have to speak Hebrew to understand a definition from a Lexicon or dictionary, that's just ridiculous.

 

[Jenniferdiana]

this is sad. people are arguing about who is right and trying to justify themselves just to get the last word so they can feel superior and approved by God. when in reality Jesus is setting up his chariot and is very well on his way...and its sad how this stuff has been happening for so so long and they still dont get how the system works.

 

[mnorian]

Mod hat on

This thread is being permanently closed
by
the OP's request.
Carry on.

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