The problem with legalism

[Hammster]

Legalism lacks the supreme sense of worship.

It obeys but does not adore.

Geerhardus Vos

 

[St. Helens]

Legalism is old stuff that cripples too. I can liken it to a closet full of old stuff that is no longer useful. One needs to let go of it and actually spend time in the Bible and in prayer.

 

[Jon Osterman]

The trouble with legalism is that Jesus repeatedly told us that it is bad, not God's intention and a barrier towards our relationship with God. I think that should be enough.

 

[Dave L]

I think we awaken in Christ as new born believers with all of the trappings of carnal mindedness. And "free will" permeates every culture. They base law on it and hold people accountable because of it. So we normally begin our journey in Christ imposing free will on the scriptures which naturally gives them a legalistic tone.

An example of converting grace into legalism would be where Jesus says "whosoever believes has eternal life". In this case faith is an attribute of all whom God saves. But free will style legalism says "whosoever chooses to believe has eternal life." In this case the gospel becomes law and the condition for keeping it is human compliance.

 

[PuerAzaelis]

Let us return now to the Apostle Paul, who, as we have found, obtained God's grace, who recompenses good for evil, without any good merits of his own, but rather with many evil merits. Let us see what he says when his final sufferings were approaching, writing to Timothy: I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight; I have finished my course; I have kept the faith. 2 Timothy 4:6-7 He enumerates these as, of course, now his good merits; so that, as after his evil merits he obtained grace, so now, after his good merits, he might receive the crown. Observe, therefore, what follows: There is henceforth laid up for me, he says, a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, shall give me at that day. 2 Timothy 4:8 Now, to whom should the righteous Judge award the crown, except to him on whom the merciful Father had bestowed grace? And how could the crown be one of righteousness, unless the grace had preceded which justifies the ungodly? How, moreover, could these things now be awarded as of debt, unless the other had been before given as a free gift?

Newadvent.org. (2018). CHURCH FATHERS: On Grace and Free Will (St. Augustine). [online] Available at: CHURCH FATHERS: On Grace and Free Will (St. Augustine) [Accessed 4 Oct. 2018].

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus said if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17).

This was said not as a point in how we cannot keep God's commands, but it was said as a part of forsaking things within possessing everlasting life. Just read the end of the chapter. The disciples were able to do this. They forsaked all to follow Jesus.

Then we read in Luke 19:1-10 about Zacchaeus. When he said to Jesus that he was willing to give away half of his goods, Jesus said salvation had come to his house.

Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). So obviously Jesus wants us to keep His commandments as a part of loving Him. In fact, Jesus says that by keeping His commandments we will abide in His love (John 15:10). Do you keep His commandments and abide in His love? Could not teaching this to others or promoting these words of Jesus be taken as legalism? Granted, we are not saved by Law Alone. We are initially and ultimately saved by God's grace. But after coming to God's grace, His grace is not a license to sin. We actually do have to be servants to Jesus Christ and not servants to ourselves and or our sin (on some level). For when I hear the phrase "legalism" or a "to do list" as being wrong, basically they are disagreeing with one half of what the Bible actually teaches because God has many commands for us to obey as a part of eternal life.

14 "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie" (Revelation 22:14-15).

 

[PuerAzaelis]

“May the Lord give us this grace: to open ourselves to the Holy Spirit, so that we will not become stupid, bewitched men and women who sadden the Holy Spirit,” the Pope remarked in his homily at morning Mass at Casa Santa Martha Oct. 6.

He provided several questions for the faithful to examine their spiritual lives:

“Is my life a continual prayer to open myself to the Holy Spirit, so that He can carry me forward with the joy of the Gospel and make me understand the teaching of Jesus, the true doctrine that does not bewitch, that does not make us stupid, but the true (teaching)?”

“Do I ignore the Holy Spirit?” he asked. “And do I know that if I go to Sunday Mass, if I do this, if I do that, is it enough?”

Catholic News Agency. (2018). For Pope Francis, legalism makes Christians stupid.. [online] Available at: For Pope Francis, legalism makes Christians stupid. [Accessed 4 Oct. 2018].

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What is the opposite of Legalism?

Lawlessness.

Legalism is strict adherence to God's commands.
Do you not believe in obeying Him?

Can we be axe murdering rapists and be saved?

Surely not.

 

[Rick Otto]

I was thinking of compassion as the opposite.

 

[FireDragon76]

What is the opposite of Legalism?

Lawlessness.

Legalism is strict adherence to God's commands.
Do you not believe in obeying Him?

Can we be axe murdering rapists and be saved?

Surely not.

Legalism has long been recognized by many confessions as inconsistent with Christian ethics.

Obedience without love is indeed more akin to idolatry.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Legalism has long been recognized by many confessions as inconsistent with Christian ethics.

Obedience without love is indeed more akin to idolatry.

Nowhere did I say that we are to have obedience without love. In fact, the first two greatest commandments tells you how to love. The church at Ephesus was told that they lost their first love. Jesus tells them to repent and do the first works. Again, this is why Jesus says if love me, keep my commandments. For people can say they love Jesus all they want, but if they are not obeying Him by keeping His commandments, they really don’t love Him.

 

[FireDragon76]

I was thinking of compassion as the opposite.

Indeed. Jesus was one of the world's first humanists, as we think of the term today. In fact this is what he criticizes the religious establishment of his day for, for turning the commandments of God into a coldly self-serving religious system.

 

[PuerAzaelis]

Can we be axe murdering rapists and be saved?

Surely not.

No crime, however heinous, can be committed or even conceived which the Church has not power to forgive, just as there is no sinner, however abandoned, however depraved, who should not confidently hope for pardon, provided he sincerely repent of his past transgressions.

"THE CATECHISM OF TRENT: The Creed - Article X". 2018. Catholicapologetics.Info. THE CATECHISM OF TRENT: The Creed - Article X.

 

[Dan the deacon]

What is the opposite of Legalism?

Lawlessness.

Legalism is strict adherence to God's commands.
Do you not believe in obeying Him?

Can we be axe murdering rapists and be saved?

Surely not.

Yes axe murdering rapist can be saved. Just as a liar can.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Indeed. Jesus was one of the world's first humanists, as we think of the term today. In fact this is what he criticizes the religious establishment of his day for, for turning the commandments of God into a coldly self-serving religious system.

Actually, it was more like adding to the commandments of God, placing the traditions of man above the word of God.

 

[Hammster]

Jesus said if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17).

This was said not as a point in how we cannot keep God's commands, but it was said as a part of forsaking things within possessing everlasting life. Just read the end of the chapter. The disciples were able to do this. They forsaked all to follow Jesus.

Then we read in Luke 19:1-10 about Zacchaeus. When he said to Jesus that he was willing to give away half of his goods, Jesus said salvation had come to his house.

Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). So obviously Jesus wants us to keep His commandments as a part of loving Him. In fact, Jesus says that by keeping His commandments we will abide in His love (John 15:10). Do you keep His commandments and abide in His love? Could not teaching this to others or promoting these words of Jesus be taken as legalism? Granted, we are not saved by Law Alone. We are initially and ultimately saved by God's grace. But after coming to God's grace, His grace is not a license to sin. We actually do have to be servants to Jesus Christ and not servants to ourselves and or our sin (on some level). For when I hear the phrase "legalism" or a "to do list" as being wrong, basically they are disagreeing with one half of what the Bible actually teaches because God has many commands for us to obey as a part of eternal life.

14 "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie" (Revelation 22:14-15).

Thanks for representing the legalisms.

 

[Hammster]

What is the opposite of Legalism?

Grace.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Grace.

I agree with this. Not in the Calvinist sort of meaning, but overall NT teachings.

 

[St. Helens]

Some scriptures that specifically address the topic of Legalism

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Galatians 2:21
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

Legalism can be defined as obedience done without the motivation of love behind it. There is a fine balance.

1 Corinthians 13:1-13
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;

Jesus did say.

John 14:15
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments."

So bearing fruit is a natural consequence of loving Christ. Someone who loves Christ isn't going to be going out and living a life of sin. So there's that fine line between obedience and legalism.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes axe murdering rapist can be saved. Just as a liar can.

Only if they repent (seek the Lord’s forgiveness), and forsake their evil ways.
They cannot continue to be an axe murdering rapist their whole lives and say the believe on Jesus and still be saved.

Grace.

When a person says "grace", do they mean...

(a) Seeking forgiveness of their sins and finding mercy so as to walk uprightly by obeying God's commands?

(b) They are not under any penalty of any kind of Law whatsoever and therefore they do not have to worry about obeying God's laws so much or worry about how sin can destroy their soul?​

For if Law Alone Salvationism (without God's grace) was the focus then.... Yes; that would be wrong and that person would need God's grace by faith first. But Laws are not in conflict with God's grace through faith. Not at all. God's grace and works go hand in hand. Just read 1 John 1:7 and Hebrews 5:9. For the very purpose or reason Christ died for us was to make us holy, blameless (Ephesians 5:25-27) and zealous of good works (Titus 2:14). When a person in my mind says "Legalism" is bad it makes me think that they are finding a way to say that taking God's laws do not play a part in the salvation process or that they can turn God's grace into a license for immorality. Yes, there is an extreme form of Legalism like Law Alone Salvationism or taking a Law beyond what it was intended to the extreme whereby it hurts others (Thereby violating the greatest two commandments).

I understand some dictionaries say about the word legalism, but this is one of those cases where the word does not actually make any sense in what it says. The definition should be excessive legalism or ultra legalism. Obeying God alone is a part of the faith. When we have faith that is a part of God's commands. When we love, that is a part of God's commands. When we repent and receive grace, that is a part of God's commands. Yes, there may be times we may faulter or stumble on rare occasion in our early walk with God, but that is why 1 John 1:9 says we can confess our sins. Confessing of sins is just another way of saying.... "repent." God commands all men everywhere to repent. There it is again. God's laws. Even believing in Jesus is a commandment (See 1 John 3:23). Yes, there are exceptions to certain laws. There always was. That does not mean we are not upholding God's laws. Paul says he establishes the Law. Granted, primarily speaking, we are not under the contract of the Old Covenant as a whole but the New Covenant contract. So the commands we follow are primarily from the New Testament and not the Old Testament; For the Law has changed.