The problem with "Every man is a potential rapist"

[Gadarene]

let me know when your ready to be responsible for the things you say and do

Ha, that's rich.


When I was not much older than you, on the corner of my own street, three guys jumped me and tried to smash a bottle into my face. They then chased me through the estate having picked up half a cinder block and if I didn't have quick reflexes and a friend's house right nearby, I'd likely be disabled or dead.

How did I react?

Did I assume all other men must be treated as potential assailants because my attackers were? No.

Did I assume all other low income people must be treated as potential assailants because my attackers were? No.

Was I tempted to think that way? Sure. It is only natural. But I worked on it.

It's funny that you tell me I'm not taking responsibility for what I say and do - because I've been doing that every day since then (and more - I took care how I thought of people too) and that's despite having massive social anxiety and outdoors anxiety since that assault.

This is why I have no time for you, someone who is only a year younger than I was when i was assaulted, blithely asserting that there's no problem with this stereotyped, bigoted thinking.

It doesn't matter what happened to you, it's not an excuse. Work on it - like I did. I managed it, while young. You can too. Don't be so entitled that you think that just because something bad happened to you you're now entitled to a free pass on your bigotry. Bad things happen to everyone.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

One person even stated that his wife doesn't feel the need to be cautious in some areas that I listed above. I honestly don't remember which person said that...it was several pages back.

You may be talking about me, but what I said is:

"She doesn't take precautions because she thinks that any man she's sees might potentially rape her."

I didn't say she doesn't take precautions. She does. She also thinks the phrase "any man is a potential rapist" is a terrible thing to say, because it's untrue and bigoted.

 

[rjs330]

I appreciate it is very unconfortable being caught out - when you want to put me down for having fear of men, by saying get over it and arguing you too have had my experiences.... and then suddenly you dont - I'll leave it at that. Theres little point you saying more as youve just reinforced the worste of my original thoughts.

I think there can me empathy for you without accepting the premise that all men are potential rapists. I certainly can understand your fear and caution from being a victim of rape.
It's like if I was robbed by a black person I would then become fearful and cautionary around black people. It's an understandable human reaction to a horrific event.

But there is a very very small percentage of men who are rapists and the majority of those are serial rapists. Its just that the premise makes it sound like women can't trust men cause you might get raped. IT's like saying you can't trust blacks cause you might get robbed by one.

 

[All4Christ]

You may be talking about me, but what I said is:

"She doesn't take precautions because she thinks that any man she's sees might potentially rape her."

I didn't say she doesn't take precautions. She does. She also thinks the phrase "any man is a potential rapist" is a terrible thing to say, because it's untrue and bigoted.

Thank you for clarifying - I think I read it as "she doesn't think" instead of "she thinks". There were some related comments from other people as well though. I appreciate your clarification!

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Thank you for clarifying - I think I read it as "she doesn't think" instead of "she thinks". There were some related comments from other people as well though. I appreciate your clarification!

Sure, I definitely could have been clearer.

 

[Kylie]

In the current cultural context, no I wouldn't.

But if the phrase was used consistently by fanatic bicyclist-movement, who see the mere act of driving a car being a moral disqualifier and who would consistently promote an idea that driving a car gives away the fact that I am deep down a monster who wants to kill bicyclists, and can never be trusted as a person, as long as I own a car, I most likely would either take offense or simply advice to use some other wording to communicate the point, if the agenda is not intended to be the same and it was used innociously.

What if it was used by a cyclist because about 90% of accidents involving cyclists were caused by cars driving dangerously?

I am not saying that all men are rapists deep down. I am saying that as a woman, I do not have the luxury of assuming that a man is going to turn to NOT be a rapist.

 

[Kylie]

If the man is doing the penetration, he is the rapist, not the raped. For the man to be raped - someone or something must penetrate HIM.

If the man is being forced to penetrate someone, then he is a victim.

If a person is forced to engage in sexual activity when they do not want to be involved in that sexual activity, then they are the victim of rape.

By your reasoning, if a woman was to drug a man, stimulate him so he gets an erection while unconscious, then straddle him so he penetrates her, then he is a rapist, despite having been unconscious the entire time!

 

[Kylie]

Ok, apparently I have to make the point even simpler. This is not a genetic fallacy.

I'm saying that when you use the same logic that was (and still is) being used to dehumanise people and justify bigotry then for you that necessarily entails:

1) hey presto, you're being bigoted too

2) you really might want to rethink your argument and possibly also your life given that you are *literally* spouting Nazi logic used to justify inequality and calling it equality

Many times throughout my life, I have been on the receiving end of sexualised comments and leers. Even when I was a teenager, I would have older men make comments about my body. And there have been a few occasions where if I had not left, I am sure I would have been assaulted. There was one time when I was walking home from school that I noticed a car driving behind me. When I turned, I noticed the driver, who was a middle aged man, was staring at me. Do you have any idea what that is like for a 14 year old girl? To have a middle aged man so openly lusting after you? It made me feel sick and dirty. And absolutely terrified. I ran up to the nearest house and rang the doorbell, and he drove off when the door was opened. What would have happened if I hadn't done that? How far would he have followed me? Would he have tried to kidnap me? That was more than 20 years ago, and it still scares me. And it scares me more that my daughter is going to be facing the same thing. She's 12 now, and starting to develop, and I know it won't be long before men start looking at her like that.

Do you realise that women must constantly live with this? With being viewed as objects of sexual gratification for men? I am not aware of any men who have to live with this (although if you can show me any I'll be happy to change my mind).

All I am saying and all I have ever said in here is that if I am put into a situation where there is a man I do not know, I have to be prepared for the possibility that he will attack me and try to rape me. I know that the chance of him actually doing anything is tiny, and that most men would never even dream of doing anything like that, but I still have to be prepared for it, because the price of being wrong is so damned high.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

What if it was used by a cyclist because about 90% of accidents involving cyclists were caused by cars driving dangerously?

I am not saying that all men are rapists deep down. I am saying that as a woman, I do not have the luxury of assuming that a man is going to turn to NOT be a rapist.

100 percent of gun related murders are committed by humans. So I have more of a reason not to trust that you, as a human, won't pull a gun and kill me than you have a reason to mistrust me as a man, since not 100% of rapes are committed by men.

See how statistics can be really bad at drawing conclusions?

The thing you really need to look at is the percentage chance that any given encounter with any man will result in you being raped. On average, the chances are infinitesimal.

The phrase "all men are potential rapists" doesn't help anyone form appropriate opinions, and only serves as inflammatory bigotry.

 

[Jack of Spades]

What if it was used by a cyclist because about 90% of accidents involving cyclists were caused by cars driving dangerously?

Same answer.

I am not saying that all men are rapists deep down.

Then you might want to reconsider using a phrase that is used to promote exactly that idea.

I have now said this enough times to believe I have by now made my point. I have no interest to start to go around in circles.

The phrase "all men are potential rapists" doesn't help anyone form appropriate opinions, and only serves as inflammatory bigotry.

It's also a part of a larger phenomenon of extreme feminists (or maybe "matriarchalist" would be a better word?) using rape victims as human shields to promote discrimination against men.

 

[Kylie]

100 percent of gun related murders are committed by humans. So I have more of a reason not to trust that you, as a human, won't pull a gun and kill me than you have a reason to mistrust me as a man, since not 100% of rapes are committed by men.

See how statistics can be really bad at drawing conclusions?

The thing you really need to look at is the percentage chance that any given encounter with any man will result in you being raped. On average, the chances are infinitesimal.

The phrase "all men are potential rapists" doesn't help anyone form appropriate opinions, and only serves as inflammatory bigotry.

For crying out loud.

A woman has a 1 in 4 chance of being raped.

You do not have a 1 in 4 chance of being murdered.

 

[Kylie]

Then you might want to reconsider using a phrase that is used to promote exactly that idea.

I have now said this enough times to believe I have by now made my point. I have no interest to start to go around in circles.

And I have said at least once that I did not use the phrase, I am simply trying to explain how the person who did use intended it. I know, because I live it. If I had to come up with a phrase I would not use that phrase, but it would carry the meaning I have been explaining.

 

[Gadarene]

For crying out loud.

A woman has a 1 in 4 chance of being raped.

You do not have a 1 in 4 chance of being murdered.

Because an arbitrary threshold of odds makes bigotry acceptable....somehow!

 

[Jack of Spades]

A woman has a 1 in 4 chance of being raped.

I explored the statistics a bit, and it seems to me that Canada has 16 x lower rape rate than the US in 2010. Which would mean about 1 in 64 in Canada. Can this be right? Are there some legal system differencies that could cause it?

Finland had that year about half the rape rate of the US, which is still high for a EU country.

 

[Zoii]

Ha, that's rich.


When I was not much older than you, on the corner of my own street, three guys jumped me and tried to smash a bottle into my face. They then chased me through the estate having picked up half a cinder block and if I didn't have quick reflexes and a friend's house right nearby, I'd likely be disabled or dead.

How did I react?

Did I assume all other men must be treated as potential assailants because my attackers were? No.

Did I assume all other low income people must be treated as potential assailants because my attackers were? No.

Was I tempted to think that way? Sure. It is only natural. But I worked on it.

It's funny that you tell me I'm not taking responsibility for what I say and do - because I've been doing that every day since then (and more - I took care how I thought of people too) and that's despite having massive social anxiety and outdoors anxiety since that assault.

This is why I have no time for you, someone who is only a year younger than I was when i was assaulted, blithely asserting that there's no problem with this stereotyped, bigoted thinking.

It doesn't matter what happened to you, it's not an excuse. Work on it - like I did. I managed it, while young. You can too. Don't be so entitled that you think that just because something bad happened to you you're now entitled to a free pass on your bigotry. Bad things happen to everyone.

People in my position dont feel entitled we feel fear.... in my case fear of men.... your harrassing comments telling me get over it doesnt make it any better. To regard all men as a potential threat is what I have to do right now. your... i dunno how old.... youve had time.... i havent so leave me alone with your "look how superior I am" comments.

 

[Paidiske]

It might be a difference in how it's measured? Eg. If you ask a sample of women, "Have you been raped?" You'll get a much higher proportion than if you look at, say, the rate of rape convictions (not, I hasten to add, because women make false claims but because convictions are very hard to get when often what needs to be proven/disproven is the question of consent).

 

[Gadarene]

People in my position dont feel entitled we feel fear.... in my case fear of men....

The entitlement is that you think you can treat an entire group of people this way and act as if no-one should challenge you on it because something bad happened to you in the past. Life doesn't work that way.

your harrassing comments telling me get over it doesnt make it any better.

Listening to this feminist-scented nonsense that tells you that it's ok to think this way about half the planet simply because of their gender is doing you no favours. It's keeping you trapped in fear, and has turned you towards bigotry.

To regard all men as a potential threat is what I have to do right now.

You almost certainly don't.

your... i dunno how old.... youve had time.... i havent so leave me alone with your "look how superior I am" comments.

Nope. Not what I said. This isn't something that took decades to develop. This is something I *chose* to work on straightaway and it paid off. You have that choice too, and right now you are making the wrong one by giving in to prejudice.

 

[Gadarene]

Many times throughout my life, I have been on the receiving end of sexualised comments and -

K. It's not an excuse.

All I am saying and all I have ever said in here is that if I am put into a situation where there is a man I do not know, I have to be prepared for the possibility that he will attack me and try to rape me. I know that the chance of him actually doing anything is tiny, and that most men would never even dream of doing anything like that, but I still have to be prepared for it, because the price of being wrong is so damned high.

We should be prepared to face International Zionism by any means necessary - the price of being wrong is so high.

 

[Gadarene]

Wow.

That's just terrible.

Not really, you reify one stereotype, then there is nothing stopping you doing so with another. That you do not only demonstrates the hypocrisy of this misandrist stance of profiling men simply because they are men and a tiny handful of them commit crimes.

 

[Gadarene]

You got a source for that claim?

UK: http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...lentcrimeandsexualoffencesyearendingmarch2015

(same as the previous year, men about twice as likely to be victims of violent crime)

And in fairness, that doesn't seem to be the case in the US where recent stats show effective parity.

And in case you are having trouble reading the thread, we are talking about rape. Sexual acts that are forced on a person. So that includes physical assault as well, doesn't it?

Er....no? Sexual assaults are filed as....well, sexual assaults.