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The Problem With Evangelism

JAL

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(at the risk of sounding like a Cessationist... which I am not!)
Do you have any examples of this in the last 100 years?
As mentioned earlier, Yonggi Cho's biographical accounts resemble those of Charles Finney and thus strike me as reasonably convincing.
 
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JAL

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100 certainty is determined after the fact. How do you know ahead of time?
Ideally each step of the process should involve 100% certainty. For example, a typical sequence might look like this:
(0) Ground zero. The prophet is not yet certain of anything - except perhaps the need to continue waiting on the Lord.
(1)Then he becomes certain what city to visit.
(2) Then he becomes certain at what hour/moment he is supposed to speak.
(3) When he opens his mouth, he becomes certain of what to say.
 
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JAL

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That was a good post.
But it points to a problem. There was no earthquake at Pentecost.
Houston, we have a problem.
As mentioned in a recent post, conscience is our ultimate authority, where conscience is defined as feelings of certainty. Thus an earthquake's function in Acts was to help raise the level of certainty to 100%. God evidently GLORIES (i.e. enjoys) using signs and wonders to raise our level of certainty to 100%, but He can also do this internally in our hearts without such external signs. Direct revelation can always, in fact, be defined as God-given feelings of certainty. For more discussion on this topic, see my thread.
 
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Saint Steven

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Right. And the only distinctive criterion I can think of for recognizing the presence of the gift is 100% certainty. That's a supernaturally induced state not likely present in any and every random pew member.
I've never met anyone who is 100 percent. It only happens in the writing of legends. Like the book of Acts.
 
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Saint Steven

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Not sure what's unclear about that. I am defending my understanding of biblical evangelism, and you are defending yours.
I'm not defending anything. I'm challenging your lack of understanding and experience.
 
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Saint Steven

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As mentioned in a recent post, conscience is our ultimate authority, where conscience is defined as feelings of certainty. Thus an earthquake's function in Acts was to help raise the level of certainty to 100%. God evidently GLORIES (i.e. enjoys) using signs and wonders to raise our level of certainty to 100%, but He can also do this internally in our hearts without such external signs. Direct revelation can always, in fact, be defined as God-given feelings of certainty. For more discussion on this topic, see my thread.
John 20:29
Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
 
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JAL

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I've never met anyone who is 100 percent. It only happens in the writing of legends. Like the book of Acts.
This ignores all the posts that I wrote to the contrary. So you'd try to murder your own son (Abraham), or slaughter a nation (Moses, Joshua, Samuel, David, etc), just because you heard a voice, even if the voice left you somewhat uncertain? If so, you're a monster.
 
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Saint Steven

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This ignores all the posts that I wrote to the contrary. So you'd try to murder your own son (Abraham), or slaughter a nation (Moses, Joshua, Samuel, David, etc), just because you heard a voice, even if the voice left you somewhat uncertain? If so, you're a monster.
That's pretty dramatic. - lol
I would definitely seek confirmation in a situation like that.
You are demonstrating your inexperience and lack of knowledge.
I usually get short commands like, "Talk to that person."
Inquiries about what to say go unanswered. I just have to wing it. (to be obedient)
The words come when I am obedient. Nothing close to 100 percent in advance.
Marketplace ministry, like Jesus did, happens in the moment.
 
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Saint Steven

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Not sure what your point is here.
Where's the 100 percent in that?

Saint Steven said:
John 20:29
Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
 
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JAL

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Where's the 100 percent in that?

Saint Steven said:
John 20:29
Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Where does that verse say that 100% certainty is impossible?
 
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JAL

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That's pretty dramatic. - lol
I would definitely seek confirmation in a situation like that.
You are demonstrating your inexperience and lack of knowledge.
I usually get short commands like, "Talk to that person."
Inquiries about what to say go unanswered. I just have to wing it. (to be obedient)
The words come when I am obedient. Nothing close to 100 percent in advance.
Marketplace ministry, like Jesus did, happens in the moment.
100 billion souls whose eternal salvation is at stake is actually far MORE dramatic than slaughtering a nation. You've chosen to remain in denial about how dramatic that is. And why should you be concerned? You've got your own fire insurance insurance, after all.
 
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Saint Steven

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Where does that verse say that 100% certainty is impossible?
Seriously?
What percentage is "not seen"? (zero percent)

Saint Steven said:
John 20:29
Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
 
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Saint Steven

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100 billion souls whose eternal salvation is at stake is actually far MORE dramatic than slaughtering a nation. You've chosen to remain in denial about how dramatic that is. And why should you be concerned? You've got your own fire insurance insurance, after all.
More like fire "assurance". Everyone will be salted with fire. Even you.

Mark 9:45-49
And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. [46] 47 And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where
“‘the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’
49 Everyone will be salted with fire.
 
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JAL

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Seriously?
What percentage is "not seen"? (zero percent)

Saint Steven said:
John 20:29
Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Seriously?
 
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JAL

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More like fire "assurance". Everyone will be salted with fire. Even you.

Mark 9:45-49
And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. [46] 47 And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where
“‘the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’
49 Everyone will be salted with fire.
Not sure your point. Are you claiming we all goto hell instead of heaven?
 
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Saint Steven

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100 billion souls whose eternal salvation is at stake...
You have made this claim repeatedly. I need to say at this point that none of those souls are "at stake", as you say. Meaning, there are no souls that will be lost ultimately. In the end every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus Christ as Lord. This means that at the restoration of all things none will be lost. That does not mean that we should not be about evangelism in the here and now. But that eventually all will be saved.

1 Timothy 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
 
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Saint Steven

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Not sure your point. Are you claiming we all goto hell instead of heaven?
Temporarily, yes.
I do not believe in a forever burning hell with no hope of escape.
And even my definition of hell is curative rather than punitive.
But there will still be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Similar to when we receive Christ and repent here on earth. - lol
 
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JAL

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Temporarily, yes.
I do not believe in a forever burning hell with no hope of escape.
And even my definition of hell is curative rather than punitive.
But there will still be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Similar to when we receive Christ and repent here on earth. - lol
So everyone goes to heaven eventually?
 
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