The Problem With Evangelism

[Saint Steven]

I found this article about it online. Christian Growth Network : Spiritual Treasure Hunts - Evangelism by God's Love
If you will read it (read time approx 5-7 minutes), I will tell you about my own experience.

Here's another link for anyone who wants to read about it. A shorter and more professionally written piece. Treasure Hunt Evangelism – God's Healing Power in Public

 

[Saint Steven]

I believe there are two kinds of baptisms:
(1) Sanctification
(2) Charismatic empowerment
Sanctification is incremental. Thus each sanctifying baptism/outpouring makes us more holy.

Charismatic empowerment is more aptly described as repetitive rather than incremental. Thus for example the Spirit re-fell upon Samson every time he needed strength. This has to do with the dynamics of efficacious grace as described in Isa 55:11. Meaning, the divine Word doesn't reside dormant within us. He always accomplishes what He has sent for and then RETURNS TO GOD. Thus without repetition, you are effectively an unempowered Christian. (Imagine a prophet who prophesies only once and then never again).

Why doesn't a sanctifying anointing return to God? Because there's never a moment that we can properly walk with God in the absence of sanctifying grace.

To answer your question, I have experienced type #1 several times - in small dosages. (I've never lived through a real revival of seismic proportions). I've never experienced #2.

I personally believe that the outpouring on Pentecost was a mixture of 1 and 2.

You can't hope to operate in prophetic ministry without the Holy Spirit empowering you.
But I guess that is not really your interest. You want God to anoint someone else to do the work. Right?

 

[Saint Steven]

Actually you're making the same claim. You have in your own mind a definition of evangelism and you too would claim that the world won't be evangelized without conformity to it.

I must have hit a nerve. (the nerve of me) This is your second reply to my post.
I have claimed no such thing.

 

[JAL]

I found this article about it online. Christian Growth Network : Spiritual Treasure Hunts - Evangelism by God's Love
If you will read it (read time approx 5-7 minutes), I will tell you about my own experience.

The period of that article is during the Second Great Awakening (a revival of seismic proportions). Be cautious about assuming that the same dynamics will prove successful in a non-revived generation. And honestly I don't see much success there. It's not even clear that many people got saved from his endeavor, although a few did get blessed.

Again, as I said earlier, such man-made tactics can be useful as a crutch, as long as we don't confuse them with proper ministry.

It seems man-made because I see no doctrine in Scripture called the 80-20 rule. Were the prophets flat out in error 20% of the time? If so, it's time to throw away 20% of my bible.

 

[JAL]

I must have hit a nerve. (the nerve of me) This is your second reply to my post.
I have claimed no such thing.

You don't have to claim it. You can't avoid it. For example suppose a group of JWs are gathered. Would you call that a church? No, because your definition of a church excludes them. Similarly, your definition of evangelism AUTOMATICALLY excludes those whose "evangelism" contradicts YOUR definition.

Such is the nature of theology whether you make it explicit or not.

 

[JAL]

You can't hope to operate in prophetic ministry without the Holy Spirit empowering you.
But I guess that is not really your interest. You want God to anoint someone else to do the work. Right?

Why all these personal stabs? Are you suffering from a paucity of Scripture to back up your position? And, as a result, you resort to making this thread all about my personal life? It's beginning to seem so.

 

[Saint Steven]

You don't have to claim it. You can't avoid it. For example suppose a group of JWs are gathered. Would you call that a church? No, because your definition of a church excludes them. Similarly, your definition of evangelism AUTOMATICALLY excludes those whose "evangelism" contradicts YOUR definition.

Such is the nature of theology whether you make it explicit or not.

What exactly are you claiming is my definition of evangelism? And where have I claimed that ALL other definitions are excluded?

This whole time I have been talking to you about prophetic evangelism, your definition. But you won't hear of it. Maybe you should be interested to hear from those who actually have some experience, rather than dismiss them because they don't match your armchair theories.

 

[JAL]

You seem to find humor in rejecting the biblical paradigms.

So, you want to sit inside the walls of the church and pray that God sends someone else? - lol

So you reject Paul's paradigm?

"Pray also for me, that whenever I speak, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel" (Eph 6:19)

Paul never commands the church to "get out there and evangelize" (your advice). What he DOES command the church is to seek the gift of prophecy (1Cor 14:1). Even Ephesian 6:19, cited above, is asking the church to pray for Paul to have prophetic words in his mouth. THAT'S evangelism. You can continue with your LOL attitude all you like.

 

[JAL]

What exactly are you claiming is my definition of evangelism? And where have I claimed that ALL other definitions are excluded?

This whole time I have been talking to you about prophetic evangelism, your definition. But you won't hear of it. Maybe you should be interested to hear from those who actually have some experience, rather than dismiss them because they don't match your armchair theories.

It doesn't MATTER what your definition of evangelism is. The point is that it excludes all other definitions by default. That's a tautology. I'm simply demonstrating that your comment applies to both you and me equally and thus was an empty personal stab.

 

[Saint Steven]

Why all these personal stabs? Are you suffering from a paucity of Scripture to back up your position? And, as a result, you resort to making this thread all about my personal life? It's beginning to seem so.

It wasn't meant as a personal stab. It was a statement (ending with a question) which you are free to challenge. But you didn't. It seems that you want the church (not yourself personally) to do prophetic evangelism. Is that correct?

Saint Steven said: ↑
You can't hope to operate in prophetic ministry without the Holy Spirit empowering you.
But I guess that is not really your interest. You want God to anoint someone else to do the work. Right?

 

[Saint Steven]

You seem to find humor in rejecting the biblical paradigms.

Your found paradigms aren't worth 20 cents if you don't get out there and do something with them.

 

[JAL]

Your found paradigms aren't worth 20 cents if you don't get out there and do something with them.

Wow. You seem to have little or no confidence in the potential of prayer. This flies in the face of so much Scripture it's not even funny.

 

[Saint Steven]

It doesn't MATTER what your definition of evangelism is. The point is that it excludes all other definitions by default. That's a tautology. I'm simply demonstrating that your comment applies to both you and me equally and thus was an empty personal stab.

Translation: You have no evidence to back up your claim.

Saint Steven said: ↑
What exactly are you claiming is my definition of evangelism? And where have I claimed that ALL other definitions are excluded?

This whole time I have been talking to you about prophetic evangelism, your definition. But you won't hear of it. Maybe you should be interested to hear from those who actually have some experience, rather than dismiss them because they don't match your armchair theories.

 

[Saint Steven]

Wow. You seem to have little or no confidence in the potential of prayer. This flies in the face of so much Scripture it's not even funny.

There you go again. I said no such thing. What is your confidence accomplishing?

Saint Steven said: ↑
Your found paradigms aren't worth 20 cents if you don't get out there and do something with them.

 

[JAL]

It wasn't meant as a personal stab. It was a statement (ending with a question) which you are free to challenge. But you didn't. It seems that you want the church (not yourself personally) to do prophetic evangelism. Is that correct?

Why would you think that? Why are you so focused on my personal life?

(Sigh). If you MUST have an answer, I would LOVE to have a clear appointment from God to preach the gospel, as the prospects of successful ministry would be increased by many orders of magnitude.

 

[Saint Steven]

You seem to find humor in rejecting the biblical paradigms.
So you reject Paul's paradigm?

"Pray also for me, that whenever I speak, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel" (Eph 6:19)

Paul never commands the church to "get out there and evangelize" (your advice). What he DOES command the church is to seek the gift of prophecy (1Cor 14:1). Even Ephesian 6:19, cited above, is asking the church to pray for Paul to have prophetic words in his mouth. THAT'S evangelism. You can continue with your LOL attitude all you like.

Here's a newsflash for you.
Evangelism happens outside the four walls of the church building!!!!!!

 

[JAL]

Translation: You have no evidence to back up your claim.

Saint Steven said: ↑
What exactly are you claiming is my definition of evangelism? And where have I claimed that ALL other definitions are excluded?

This whole time I have been talking to you about prophetic evangelism, your definition. But you won't hear of it. Maybe you should be interested to hear from those who actually have some experience, rather than dismiss them because they don't match your armchair theories.

Um...I don't make a habit of spending much time backing up tautologies. Get used to it.

 

[JAL]

Here's a newsflash for you.
Evangelism happens outside the four walls of the church building!!!!!!

Precisely. Following the prophetic paradigm of Pentecost.

 

[JAL]

There you go again. I said no such thing. What is your confidence accomplishing?

Saint Steven said: ↑
Your found paradigms aren't worth 20 cents if you don't get out there and do something with them.

I'm at a loss on how else to extrapolate your words. You've repeatedly disparaged my advice to wait prayerfully upon the Lord. You've insinuated that my approach automatically spells ineffectiveness.

 

[Saint Steven]

Why would you think that? Why are you so focused on my personal life?

(Sigh). If you MUST have an answer, I would LOVE to have a clear appointment from God to preach the gospel, as the prospects of successful ministry would be increased by many orders of magnitude.

Why do you think you DON'T have "a clear appointment from God to preach the gospel"?

1 Peter 3:15
But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,