The problem with Creation vs. Evolution threads (or why certain atheists aren't helping)

[OldWiseGuy]

I wouldn't call it "creation." I know that so do. However, terms such as "creationist" are so strongly identified with creation-science people, that I would refuse to use that label for myself, so as to avoid confusion.

I hear you. I am an OEC. I believe the fossil record reveals a 'ruin/restoration' pattern, not one of slow evolution. The last 'ruin' event was the flood, preceded by the one just prior to Adam, which also seems to have involved a flood. In fact the layering of the geologic record seems to involve flooding at every turn.

Consider the "pluckt olive leaf" in the flood story. To me this represents a restoration, complete with the dove/spirit metaphor. If "all living things perished" in the flood the olive leaf was newly created in yet another restoration.

 

[Hoghead1]

I hear you. I am an OEC. I believe the fossil record reveals a 'ruin/restoration' pattern, not one of slow evolution. The last 'ruin' event was the flood, preceded by the one just prior to Adam, which also seems to have involved a flood. In fact the layering of the geologic record seems to involve flooding at every turn.

Consider the "pluckt olive leaf" in the flood story. To me this represents a restoration, complete with the dove/spirit metaphor. If "all living things perished" in the flood the olive leaf was newly created in yet another restoration.

Well, if you don't believe evolution can be a slow pattern, why are you an OEC? The truth of the matters is that science recognizes evolution can go both slow and fast, depending on the situation. The fossil records indicate a slow pattern there.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Well, if you don't believe evolution can be a slow pattern, why are you an OEC? The truth of the matters is that science recognizes evolution can go both slow and fast, depending on the situation. The fossil records indicate a slow pattern there.

I believe the earth is old but that doesn't automatically open my mind to evolutionary change. I see purposeful design in nature, which makes sense to me.

 

[Hoghead1]

I believe the earth is old but that doesn't automatically open my mind to evolutionary change. I see purposeful design in nature, which makes sense to me.

Evolution also can be seen as having purposeful design to it, despite what some atheists may say.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Evolution also can be seen as having purposeful design to it, despite what some atheists may say.

I just don't see it as necessary to explain the fossil record or present day creatures.

 

[bhsmte]

I just don't see it as necessary to explain the fossil record or present day creatures.

I just don't see, that you have even the most basic understanding of the theory.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I just don't see, that you have even the most basic understanding of the theory.

Perhaps. Evolution is like an ugly girl. One glance is all I need.

(Apologies to all the ugly girls that don't get asked out.)

 

[bhsmte]

Perhaps. Evolution is like an ugly girl. One glance is all I need.

(Apologies to all the ugly girls that don't get asked out.)

I think "scary" may be more appropriate.

When certain information/knowledge threatens a tightly held belief, it can get quite scary for some.

 

[Hoghead1]

I think "scary" may be more appropriate.

When certain information/knowledge threatens a tightly held belief, it can get quite scary for some.

Quite true. Also, contemplating the power of evolution is a bit overwhelming.

 

[bhsmte]

Quite true. Also, contemplating the power of evolution is a bit overwhelming.

For some, accepting the mountains of evidence for evolution, causes a great deal of cognitive dissonance.

 

[Hoghead1]

I just don't see it as necessary to explain the fossil record or present day creatures.

Well, maybe you don't, but science does, and I'm going with the latter. If there is one thing we have learned, it is that reality is dynamic, you can't out your foot in the same universe twice. I realize many toady have trouble accepting that, which is why we re so surprised and upset with the vast changes taking place in the weather patterns, global warming, etc.

 

[Hoghead1]

For some, accepting the mountains of evidence for evolution, causes a great deal of cognitive dissonance.

Yes, of course. As was mentioned earlier, it challenges many well-established religious beliefs. However, that situation seems unique to the American Bible Belt.

 

[bhsmte]

Yes, of course. As was mentioned earlier, it challenges many well-established religious beliefs. However, that situation seems unique to the American Bible Belt.

Yes, lots of fundies in the bible belt.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I think "scary" may be more appropriate.

When certain information/knowledge threatens a tightly held belief, it can get quite scary for some.

Evolution is scary. Things turning into other things.

 

[Hoghead1]

Evolution is scary. Things turning into other things.

Yes, but that is great. It's like magic. It restores the romanticism of nature.

 

[bhsmte]

Evolution is scary. Things turning into other things.

You wouldn't be here without it.