The Problem of Suffering

[sunshine456]

Romans 9King James Version (KJV)

2 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

It is within the above aforementioned verse that we can learn to realize that our understanding is not his understanding and that in this physical life we are not in control as we would like to perceive it and that our perception is limited and skewed at times from outside sources.

Our faith, hope and LOVE for him through his son JESUS is the principles by which we maintain any formula for understanding.

We look at Job's and his affliction. we look at Lot and his vexations, and we also look to the word of GOD the heavenly father; the holy scriptures and find that.......

12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.(2 timothy 3:12)

The enemy the devil is roaring around us like a lion; seeking whom it can devour....in opposition especially to those whom would live a righteous life following JESUS CHRIST the son of GOD.

Praise be to GOD the heavenly father and his son lord JESUS CHRIST forever>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

[RC1970]

God is Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnibenevolent

The problem that we all have is fully conceiving these three ideas.

God is omnipotent because He has complete control over everything He has made.
God is omniscient because He has complete knowledge of everything He has made.
God is omnibenevolent because He defines what "benevolence" is, not you and not me.

To presume that we have more power, more knowledge or greater benevolence than God, is pure hubris.

 

[Greg J.]

An explanation from another direction is: when someone puts their hand in a hot flame, is it best if they felt no pain? What should a loving God do for someone who keeps sticking their hand into the flame of self-sufficiency, when the consequences will prevent that person from being capable of yielding to and relying on God (such as for salvation)? Self-sufficiency is a big lie. No one is self-sufficient. A person has hardly any control at all over themselves or their lives (Luke 12:15-21, Matthew 5:36). More to the point, no one can grant salvation to themselves.

 

[Dwells]

Everyone will suffer in their lifetime, some more than others. If you want to end suffering then stop having children.....but we won't, because we love having them around and we will risk having them even if they end up suffering down the road.

 

[Tomm]

We humans are limited in wisdom, if we only rely on our own wisdom, we'd get nowhere.
Suffering can be a blessing.

 

[victorinus]

And why apply this test to innocent, suffering children?

to see how you will react to innocent suffering children

 

[LoveMyGod]

For a skeptic, there is no satisfactory answer. It's an unresolvable logical paradox. Even for believers, it boils down to faith. One just has to have faith that God is righteous, and does what is best. To me, it's wishful thinking, but for an awful lot of people, it provides comfort and peace of mind. And I won't argue with that.

It is not paradoxical at all. I do not believe the issue of suffering to be one that deals in as much faith as you think it does. I am a father of three small children. My middle child is 4 years old and yesterday she became sick with a cold or virus of some kind. Her body started to fight the virus with fever and coughing and she was in a state of misery. As much as I love my daughter, I would not want to put an end to her suffering completely because I know that as she fights the virus her body is creating antibodies that will make her better not only now but in the future as well. If she goes on to have children of her own one day, she will also give those antibodies to her new born child. This is very similar to why God allows suffering for us. It is our failures that define our lives so much more than our successes. Suffering brings adversity that will shape who we are going to be not only today, but every day after. If God did not allow suffering, we would never truly come to appreciate the moments in this life that bring us such joy.

God himself sent his own son to suffer much more than any of us will ever suffer so that we may be saved from our sins. I'm not talking about the beatings and crucifixion. Jesus took on every sin from all time while on the cross while being removed from the God and father that he had been with since creation. There is not a greater suffering that I can think of.

 

[JoeP222w]

I'm sure this has been done to death but I've never seen a satisfactory answer to the problem of suffering from a Theist.
To summarize, if God is Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnibenevolent, when suffering occurs, for example a parasite that burrows into the eyes of small children causing insufferable pain and blindness, God must see this and either chooses to do nothing about it or is powerless to intervene. How do believers justify this suffering, particularly if you believe in the Abrahamic God and believe God cares and interferes with the goings on of humanity?

Your question seems to imply, although not explicitly stated, that suffering is bad or evil. Is this what you are claiming?

If yes, then you are inferring that there is some sort of standard for evil, and conversely that there is some standard for good or righteous. What is your standard for measuring that which is good versus that which is evil?

What do you understand "Omnipotent" to mean?
What do you understand "Omniscient" to mean?
What do you understand "Omnibenevolent" to mean?

There are definitions for these things, but my understanding of these definitions may be different from yours.

You claim that God is these 3 things. Do you understand any of the other attributes of God? If yes, what other attributes of God do you understand?

You also appear that you yourself are claiming to be all knowing, that you know in any case of suffering, that God never intervenes ("do nothing") or is incapable ("powerless to intervene"). On what basis do you make this claim?

What is your framework on which you claim to know all the workings of God and you have the ability to judge God, since by your faith category, you profile reads "Atheist", which traditionally is defined as a belief that there is no God?

If you deny the existence of God, then it is inconsistent to even claim that God is doing nothing or is powerless, since by your belief claim, you don't even believe He exists. Is it not irrational to rail against something or someone that you don't even believe exists?


-----------
To respond in the affirmative:

In the Christian worldview, there are indeed reasons for suffering.

1. God created all things and set a perfect standard by which all of these things must measure up to in His perfect and holy moral judgment. Since He is the Creator of all things, He has the sovereign right to judge His creation.
2. Man (Adam) was designed and created morally perfect. However, man disobeyed God and through this disobedience, sin and death was brought into the world.
3. As a consequence of this disobedience, this world was cursed and man was sentenced to suffer all of his life. Suffering is not an abnormal situation, but is the common situation of all mankind because by nature, we are born into a sinful disobedience to God, because of the fall of Adam.
4. However, because God is gracious and merciful, He did not leave man without hope. He promised a Redeemer, a Savior would come to rescue man from sin and death. That redeemer is Jesus Christ.
5. Jesus Christ lived a perfect and obedient life that we are incapable of living, because He is fully man and fully God. He laid down His life for those who are the elect of God and will repent and turn from their sins and trust in Jesus Christ alone for their righteousness before God.

Suffering is the common truth of sinful man in a sin cursed world. There is not one soul on this earth that does not deserve suffering, because all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. We all fully deserve the righteous and holy wrath of God, because He is good, perfect and just and no sin will exist in His presence. Yet God also grants us mercy, grace and love in Jesus Christ.

There are many reasons for suffering:
1. It is a result of the Fall of man.
2. God uses it to grow compassion and sympathy.
3. God uses it to strengthen the faith in one who trusts in Him that He is sovereign over all things, including suffering.
4. God uses it to display His justice.
5. God uses it to display His mercy.

It is only by God's common grace on all mankind that there is not far, far more suffering, because not one of us deserve even one more breath or one more heart beat. So the question more properly framed is not why there is suffering, but rather "With God being so holy, perfect and righteous, and man being so incredibly sinful, why is there not far more suffering?"

God is not "doing nothing" to end suffering, nor is He powerless. He is actively involved in the works of suffering. He is healing and strengthening. He is also pouring out judgment and wrath. But be assured, He is doing something because of His great power.

If God was to truly to withdraw His common hand of grace upon this world, the suffering that would be happening in this world would unimaginable, if man's evil was never truly restrained.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I'm sure this has been done to death but I've never seen a satisfactory answer to the problem of suffering from a Theist.
To summarize, if God is Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnibenevolent, when suffering occurs, for example a parasite that burrows into the eyes of small children causing insufferable pain and blindness, God must see this and either chooses to do nothing about it or is powerless to intervene. How do believers justify this suffering, particularly if you believe in the Abrahamic God and believe God cares and interferes with the goings on of humanity?

I believe that God is even now blessing efforts at alleviating many such diseases, re; Jimmy Carter and Dengue fever.

WGBH American Experience . Jimmy Carter | PBS

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Most human suffering is unnecessarily self-inflicted. If we would stop hitting ourselves in the head with a hammer we wouldn't have so many headaches.

 

[SkyWriting]

I'm sure this has been done to death but I've never seen a satisfactory answer to the problem of suffering from a Theist.
To summarize, if God is Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnibenevolent, when suffering occurs, for example a parasite that burrows into the eyes of small children causing insufferable pain and blindness, God must see this and either chooses to do nothing about it or is powerless to intervene. How do believers justify this suffering, particularly if you believe in the Abrahamic God and believe God cares and interferes with the goings on of humanity?

The nerves you use for eyesight use the same method to
deliver pain signals. These are handy for healing and walking.
If you cut the nerves your legs don't move.

To remove you from all pain means you stop breathing.
Morphine will work if you wish to experiment with this.
Enough morphine and you will not notice any damage
to your eye no matter what effects it.

What be your choice?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

An omnipotent god could have created us without the inclination to rebel, which means the fall wouldn't have happened and there would still be no suffering.

And no, that doesn't mean we'd be robots. We'd have the free will to rebel, we just wouldn't choose to do so.

We have that choice now, and have chosen to rebel. It's much easier to be sinful than to be righteous. We have taken the easy path.

 

[mark kennedy]

I'm sure this has been done to death but I've never seen a satisfactory answer to the problem of suffering from a Theist.
To summarize, if God is Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnibenevolent, when suffering occurs, for example a parasite that burrows into the eyes of small children causing insufferable pain and blindness, God must see this and either chooses to do nothing about it or is powerless to intervene. How do believers justify this suffering, particularly if you believe in the Abrahamic God and believe God cares and interferes with the goings on of humanity?

Why does God Almighty suffer the pain, misery and evil in this world? Because he holds a monopoly on eyernity and eternal life, those plans and purposes can only be partially known in this life.

The book of Job deals a with the question somewhat, you might check out Job 38 for some counter questions. One of the biggest mistakes people make is they figure if your suffering you must deserve it. They asked Jesus once, who sinned this man or his parents that he was born blind? Jesus says neither, and it should be understood, this isnt limited to Christianity. Confucious tells a story of a prince that passes another carriage with a busted wheel. He aske the prince to help him. The prince ways he cant do that, he didnt want to interfere with karma since he is obviously being punished for something.

Now we can feign some indignation that God doesnt put a stop to it. However the New Testament makes clear in the account of the Rich man and Lazaraus we are held to account when we do nothing.

 

[LoyalJW]

Suffering happens because people put themselves and pleasure before Jehovah

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I'm not talking about how you think things are, I'm talking about how things could have been.

As I keep saying, an omnipotent god could have created a universe in which we had no inclination to rebel or cause harm to each other, that there were no angels to "invent" rebellion, and that we wouldn't physically suffer.

We have to live in the reality that we have.

 

[Geralt]

book of job

I'm sure this has been done to death but I've never seen a satisfactory answer to the problem of suffering from a Theist.
To summarize, if God is Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnibenevolent, when suffering occurs, for example a parasite that burrows into the eyes of small children causing insufferable pain and blindness, God must see this and either chooses to do nothing about it or is powerless to intervene. How do believers justify this suffering, particularly if you believe in the Abrahamic God and believe God cares and interferes with the goings on of humanity?

 

[Chriliman]

I'm sure this has been done to death but I've never seen a satisfactory answer to the problem of suffering from a Theist.
To summarize, if God is Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnibenevolent, when suffering occurs, for example a parasite that burrows into the eyes of small children causing insufferable pain and blindness, God must see this and either chooses to do nothing about it or is powerless to intervene. How do believers justify this suffering, particularly if you believe in the Abrahamic God and believe God cares and interferes with the goings on of humanity?

God co-suffers with us. So even the most unimaginable pain someone can endure was indured by God before. This is how He knows what we're going through no matter how painful and He is always willing to help us through it and restore us to newness of life.

 

[Chriliman]

How does this help the baby born with cancer? Or the young child slowly starving to death? Or the 10 year old being raped by a priest?

Provide information to where I can find these people and I'll help them. One of God's commands is to help those in need whenever the opportunity arises. Think of the Good Samaritan story.

 

[Chriliman]

God's command offers the potential for obedience/agreement/oneness or disobedience/disagreement/separation.

Suffering exists because of beings who disobey and separate themselves from God and His commandments about how to live and not die.

 

[Cearbhall]

With these difficult questions, one must know know that God is perfect, and God is in control.

I'm curious, how "must" one know this? How does this wind up being in the premise? This sounds like a conclusion to me.