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The problem of omniscience

NBB

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Let's say it's day 1 and God knows what your day 2 A/B choice will be. We'll say he knows it will be A (you did say it has a value as of day 1). On day 2, you freely choose B. What happens to God's knowledge that you would choose A?

If that is true then God does not know everything then. But i don't see the point in this exercise.
 
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grasping the after wind

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I do not see any logical stream here that proves what you are claiming to proves. If Pete chooses A and God knew He would choose A, how does that preclude either Pete's having a choice or God not having sure knowledge of what Pete would choose?. They are not mutually exclusive. Had Pete decided to choose B, God would have known he was going to choose B. Pete still got to choose. You have not proven that Pete did not get to choose if God knew what Pete would choose or that if Pete gets to choose God cannot know what Pete will choose. You have assumed that God's knowledge of what Pete's choice would be somehow forces Pete to choose what Pete decides to choose. You need some proof of a cause and effect relationship between God's knowledge and Pete's choice for claiming what you are claiming.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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...I have some questions. In the course of making possible "free choices," does Pete have an infinite array of free choices he could make, or just two, as designated by A or B?

What if Pete decides to go to Baskin-Robbins or Dunkin' Donuts on day 2? Moreover, what if Pete has a choice of going to either or to both places? Also, what if Pete was originally going to go alone, but while in transit he realizes that he has forgotten his wallet, so he calls his buddy and asks him if he wants to go along too. That way, when Pete gets to either establishment he chooses--assuming that his friend agrees to go with him---he can hit up his buddy for some cash to pay for either the ice-cream or the donut(s) [...I mean, the guy is starving!] The upshot in all of this is that, on the same day, it could happen that, just after eating a ton of either ice-cream or donuts (or both!), Pete has a sugar overdose in his bowels and feels the onset of a severe attack of explosive diarrhea.

In such a case, what I want to know is: Does Pete have the free-will to decide to successfully hold in a boat-load of ice-cream and donuts as it begins to put massive amounts of pressure on his intestinal tract, and can he do this whether or not God knows anything about Pete's massive diarrhetic dilemma?
 
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bling

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There is the assumption that if the future is “set”, man cannot have libertarian free will, which show a lack of understanding.

He assumes that if the future is “set” than God had to set it every action in the future, but the future does not have to all be “set” by only God’s free will choice, but God could have allowed humans some limited autonomous power to decide some of their own future choices which are than set. If my choices are setting my part of the future than I still made free will choices and the future is “set’.

Think of it like this:

You made some autonomous free will choices yesterday which is now “history” and history cannot change so it is “set”, but even though history is “set” does not mean you did not make some free will choices.

God at the end of time knows all your free will choices as history so they are all “set” for God at the end of time, but the same God also exists at the begin time, so God at the beginning of time has perfect knowledge of all your free will choices from the beginning of man’s time.

If man can make truly free will choice than there is something God cannot know and that is all the free will choices of an individual who will never exist. God can know all the possible choices but not which choices the never to exist person made. At the moment God decided to make a person that person was made, lived, made choices, died and went to heaven or hell in God’s time perspective.

This does not mean there is no sequencing of events in the Spiritual realm God’s time.
 
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Kim7229

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If that is true then God does not know everything then. But i don't see the point in this exercise.
Bingo!!! You've just revealed the point of the exercise. If you have the free will to choose A or B, then God can't have infallible knowledge of your yet to be made choice. If he does have infallible knowledge of your yet to be made free choice, then what seems to you to be a choice really isn't.
 
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Kim7229

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For the most part, your response is a red herring. As for the A/B choice, you may read B as 'not A' - meaning B or A is a true dichotomy.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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For the most part, your response is a red herring. As for the A/B choice, you may read B as 'not A' - meaning B or A is a true dichotomy.

No, it's not a red herring if we don't fully understand the two concepts that are being plied and flung-together here in your "copied" OP logic pretzel.
 
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Kim7229

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Thanks for your response. Would you say that as of day 1, X has a truth value? (meaning it is equal to A or it is equal to B)
 
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NBB

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Not really, God can know the answer beforehand and not intervene in your decision at all, your decision is yours....
 
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Kim7229

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He knows the answer, but that does not mean he forced it on you somehow...
Would you agree that as of day 1, X has a truth value? If you answer 'yes', then you're saying as of day 1, X is either A or B and can't be anything else. If it is A and Pete than gives Y the value of B on day 2, then A and B aren't the same - or Pete's choice is not in alignment with what God knew he would choose. Make sense?
 
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Kim7229

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That's incoherent.
Would you agree that as of day 1, X has a truth value? If you answer 'yes', then you're saying as of day 1, X is either A or B and can't be anything else. If it is A and Pete than gives Y the value of B on day 2, then A and B aren't the same - or Pete's choice is not in alignment with what God knew he would choose. Make sense?
 
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Radagast

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Would you agree that as of day 1, X has a truth value?

I already said yes.

If it is A and Pete than gives Y the value of B on day 2

That's incoherent. If Pete is going to choose A, then Pete is going to choose A.

When you cut-and-pasted this rather silly argument, you should have studied it more carefully.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Kim, I think you think to expand your academic acumen and realize that your "choice" here to attempt to reduce down the essence of both the concept of Human Free Will (whatever that is) and Divine Omniscience (whatever that is, too) and then, basically, throw them at each other, comes by way of certain assumptions that don't actually obtain.
 
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bling

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Thanks for your response. Would you say that as of day 1, X has a truth value? (meaning it is equal to A or it is equal to B)
Yes! The question is "who gave it that value"? If I of my own free will gave it the value "B" in my future than that is when the decision was made and I am not making the decision twice.
The problem is thinking about your decision of "A" or "B" not being made by you "yet", since it was made by you already in your future existence. It is kind of like you making the same choice twice, but it is only once in God's time frame.
I see the problem with your thinking: Everything being in the present for God means it is like: a free will agent "first" makes the choice of A or B which God than knows and sends that information back to Himself at the beginning of time so God at the beginning of time knows your free will choice "prior" to you making it, but in your time frame.
 
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