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Ask Him.This still bothers me.
How a "good" creator could design an unfair system.
Of course fairness isnt the same thing as goodness.Ask Him.
If you truthfully want to know the truth.
Nothing is good about a fair system, possibly. Did you think of that ?
Could be that "fairness", like "good intentions", pave the wide path to destruction! ?
This is what Jeff said:Ultimately, what Jeff said. I can't add to that.
That's the PLAN.
From ON HIGH.
No one HIGHER!
He's the ONLY WAY.
Nothing about being fair required.
I think what you proved is that God is not infinitely self-sufficient. He has at last one limitation. Which is precisely my position.If God is infinitely self sufficient then he/she/it would have no motivation to create anything. Therefore the universe and all it contains would not exist.
I think I just disproved the existence of God.
You can all go home now.
OB
This is what Jeff said:
Are you agreeing with Jeff that fairness is not necessarily a characteristic of your God?
OB
Of course fairness isnt the same thing as goodness.
But what good creator would design an unfair system, given whats at stake?
They have a phrase for that. "Arbitrary and capricious"....I sure would not demand God be fair though - He Does whatever He Wants to Do.
OldWiseGuy said: ↑
.
It must be as sinfulness comes naturally to us. We don't have to be taught how to sin, but we do have to be taught how to be righteous.
...and who or what might that be?I'd call that a significant design flaw and complain to the manufacturer.
OB
Nothing with Yahuweh is arbitrary.ok. So if its not exactly fair.... nor arbitrary either.... then what is it?
They have a phrase for that. "Arbitrary and capricious".
Nothing with Yahuweh is arbitrary.
It's a mystery with God and fairness. It wasn't fair for him come in the flesh himself either and die for you... when he didn't have to.
So now its neither arbitrary nor fair???Nothing with Yahuweh is arbitrary.
If you think it is not fair, that's your choice.
Fairness is not a requirement for much of anything eternal, in this life or in the next.
Righteousness and a pure heart are required though. Yes, in this life and in the next. (just to make it to the next!)
So now its neither arbitrary nor fair???
Ok. The only thing left then is: its mechanistic. Not the product of a mind at all.
Actually JAL the self-sufficiency argument has two possible outcomes:I think what you proved is that God is not infinitely self-sufficient. He has at last one limitation. Which is precisely my position.
As to WHY He has that limitation, it is because God isn't who the church thinks He is. They've made Him out to be the quintessential superman and magician. What if he's not magical at all? What if He is merely what Jesus called him - our father?
And yet he is a father so ineffably more knowledgeable, powerful, skillful, infallible, and upstanding than ordinary fathers that his existence cries out for distinctive titles such as 'God'. He is the quintessential ruler, not the quintessential magician.
Who told you - what is the 'source' of the errors , that something ought to be fair,So now its neither arbitrary nor fair???
Ok. The only thing left then is: its mechanistic. Not the product of a mind at all.
It's a mystery with God and fairness. It wasn't fair for him come in the flesh himself either and die for you... when he didn't have to.
It's a mystery with God and fairness. It wasn't fair for him come in the flesh himself either and die for you... when he didn't have to.
Ahh...it's a Mystery. The standard Christian Get Out Of Jail Free card.
By the way - if God chose to sacrifice himself to himself - where does fairness come into it?
OB
Actually your answer is the other sensible option: its not-sensible, aka a mystery.I only said it was a mystery. I don't know how you built up enough of a model to come up with a mechanistic system.
This is a false idea, planted in men by the enemy of all life and the enemy of truth, the devil. It is a humanistic thing perhaps, but not true.Well, fair and arbitrary are attributes of conscious intent. There cannot be neither, unless there simply is no conscious intent. Hence: mechanistic.
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