The Problem of Evil

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OldWiseGuy

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The problem of evil is that we, being not-so-good ourselves, are quite comfortable with it. God instructs us to 'put away evil', but we rather like cozying up to it. It's exciting, profitable, fun, and appeals to that side of our nature. And we are willing to pay the price it exacts on us. :eek:
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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We Ekklesia, born of the will of our Father in heaven, are not comfortable with evil nor with sin.
As Jesus says clearly: WOE (judged/or worse/) to you who are comfortable....

That sinful side of our nature was crucified with Christ, and the life we live is by faith in the son of God Who Loves us and Gave Himself for us. It is no longer we who live but Christ Who lives in us, as written throughout Scripture.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Why is that our nature?

It must be as sinfulness comes naturally to us. We don't have to be taught how to sin, but we do have to be taught how to be righteous.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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We Ekklesia, born of the will of our Father in heaven, are not comfortable with evil nor with sin.
As Jesus says clearly: WOE (judged/or worse/) to you who are comfortable....

That sinful side of our nature was crucified with Christ, and the life we live is by faith in the son of God Who Loves us and Gave Himself for us. It is no longer we who live but Christ Who lives in us, as written throughout Scripture.

The thread isn't directed at the church but at the world in general, and the problem of evil.
 
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durangodawood

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.It must be as sinfulness comes naturally to us. We don't have to be taught how to sin, but we do have to be taught how to be righteous.
Ok. But.... sinfulness is our nature because it comes naturally to us is more like re-phrasing the question rather than answering it.
 
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JAL

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The problem of evil is that we, being not-so-good ourselves, are quite comfortable with it. God instructs us to 'put away evil', but we rather like cozying up to it. It's exciting, profitable, fun, and appeals to that side of our nature. And we are willing to pay the price it exacts on us. :eek:
You seem to have your own version of the 'The Problem of Evil'. Nothing wrong with that, except it's a little confusing since 'The Problem of Evil' has a fairly well-known standard definition in the circles of theology and philosophy. In this classic sense, it serves as a defense of atheism. And, in my view, I'm the only born-again Christian who provides a real solution to the problem. For 2000 years Christian theologians have been pretending to have solved it, but certainly an atheist isn't fooled by their superficial treatments.

The classic Problem of Evil goes something like this:
(1) God is said to be infinitely powerful.
(2) God is said to be infinitely kind.
(3) Yet evil (suffering) exists and persists year after year.
(4) Therefore God as defined in 1 and 2 does not exist.

But I take it this is not what you had in mind?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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The problem of evil is that we, being not-so-good ourselves, are quite comfortable with it. God instructs us to 'put away evil', but we rather like cozying up to it. It's exciting, profitable, fun, and appeals to that side of our nature. And we are willing to pay the price it exacts on us.

The thread isn't directed at the church but at the world in general, and the problem of evil.

Ekklesia are not in the "we", nor the "us", nor the "our" you refer to in the op , if they are faithful and delivered from sin, crucified in Christ Jesus as He Says - dead to those things, dead to the world, dead to sin,
WE Ekklesia already had the evil broken , and are not comfortable with it, and already did 'put away evil'
and DON'T like cozing up to it.
and ARE NOT WILLING TO PAY THE PRICE (our souls) it "exacts on us" as you posted.

Instead, WE Ekklesia, born again ones, few on earth out of the many, are
ALIVE TO THE FATHER ALWAYS ABIDING IN HIM!
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Hmm.

If Adam could have chosen differently, then why cant we?
We can.
Most don't.
Most are taught wrong , to live wrong, from conception thru birth thru their childhood through the rest of their lives.
Most believe the demonic doctrines deceiving multitudes.
 
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Moral Orel

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And, in my view, I'm the only born-again Christian who provides a real solution to the problem. For 2000 years Christian theologians have been pretending to have solved it, but certainly an atheist isn't fooled by their superficial treatments.

The classic Problem of Evil goes something like this:
(1) God is said to be infinitely powerful.
(2) God is said to be infinitely kind.
(3) Yet evil (suffering) exists and persists year after year.
(4) Therefore God as defined in 1 and 2 does not exist.
So what's your solution to the actual problem of evil?
 
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Occams Barber

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It must be as sinfulness comes naturally to us. We don't have to be taught how to sin, but we do have to be taught how to be righteous.

I'd call that a significant design flaw and complain to the manufacturer. :(
OB
 
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JAL

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So what's your solution to the actual problem of evil?
Sorry I wasn't clear. The truth is that, in my view, the Problem of Evil targets only one problem with the traditional definition of God - and does so correctly. There are several additional problems. For example, an immutable God cannot become man - that claim is inherently self-contradictory. Theologians claim to have solved it by postulating the 'hypostatic union' but that's like alleging 2 + 2 = 5 and then claiming to 'solve' the contradiction. Once a position is inherently self-contradictory, there's no solving it.

I don't really 'solve' the Problem of Evil then - rather I agree with its analysis. What I do is formulate a definition of God that is both biblical and, as far as I can see, devoid of logical contradictions. Maybe I'll copy-paste one of my posts from another thread.

If you don't agree with the Problem of Evil, here's why you should. Suppose you are God, and infinitely self-sufficient. Why would you make a world like this? You'd have to be a jerk, right? I certainly wouldn't make a world like this because, if I were infinitely self-sufficient, there's no pleasure that the world could afford me that I couldn't already supply myself. There would be no need to put anyone in harm's way. Likely I wouldn't make the world at all, if suffering is what it can potentially amount to.
 
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Halbhh

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So what's your solution to the actual problem of evil?
There cannot be love without freedom. (Freedom to act)

Freedom makes some evil inevitable. ('evil' is intentionally and knowingly doing to others what you'd not want anyone to do to you)

So, evil is naturally part of the basic situation of intelligent life with agency, able to love.

I'd call that a significant design flaw and complain to the manufacturer. :(
OB
 
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Occams Barber

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Suppose you are God, and infinitely self-sufficient. Why would you make a world like this? You'd have to be a jerk, right? I certainly wouldn't make a world like this because, if I were infinitely self-sufficient, there's no pleasure that the world could afford me that I couldn't already supply myself.

If God is infinitely self sufficient then he/she/it would have no motivation to create anything. Therefore the universe and all it contains would not exist.

I think I just disproved the existence of God.

You can all go home now. :)
OB
 
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OldWiseGuy

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You seem to have your own version of the 'The Problem of Evil'. Nothing wrong with that, except it's a little confusing since 'The Problem of Evil' has a fairly well-known standard definition in the circles of theology and philosophy. In this classic sense, it serves as a defense of atheism. And, in my view, I'm the only born-again Christian who provides a real solution to the problem. For 2000 years Christian theologians have been pretending to have solved it, but certainly an atheist isn't fooled by their superficial treatments.

The classic Problem of Evil goes something like this:
(1) God is said to be infinitely powerful.
(2) God is said to be infinitely kind.
(3) Yet evil (suffering) exists and persists year after year.
(4) Therefore God as defined in 1 and 2 does not exist.

But I take it this is not what you had in mind?

The topic is the problem of evil, not a philosophical discussion of evil.
 
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straykat

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Why is that our nature?

Evil stems from death, and vice versa. We didn't inherit Adam's sin, but the death brought about by his sin.

Death makes man keenly aware of his short time on earth, what he must struggle through just to live, what may keep him safe, what will distract him from his broken condition and escape into pleasure and false security. And when we seek these things, we also risk walking on others to attain them.

The man who fears for his safety ends up building walls, then forts, then weapons, then armies, then attacks outsiders and takes their stuff as well, all in the name of security and his fear that they will attack first. He fears death, and ends up sinning in order to avoid death.

The man who knows how short and pointless his life is could fall into pleasures to distract him. Hedonism, gluttony, and the like stream from this. And to top it off, he ends up abusing other fellow humans to attain this pleasure as well. Lust, adultery, rape, inappropriate content, and other predatory actions. While the glutton hordes and takes more than he should. All in the name of escaping his wretched condition of death.

And so on and so forth. Name a vice, and you'll eventually see that it's a delusion to escape from our mortality. Paul put it another way: "Money is the root of all evil." He was making a somewhat similar point about how insuring security and mobility (via money) ends up leading to all other kinds of evils. And ultimately, it streams from death. Which we inherited from Adam.

Maybe some would consider this unorthodox. I'm not sure. A lot of denominations of Christianity (via Augustine) conceive of "original sin" as some entity or force in it's own right. But I say it's the result of death. There is an original sin of Adam, but not in the sense where he is solely responsible for all of our sins. What we inherited from him was death. Our sins are our own.

And unlike the first Adam, the second Adam represents Life. Reverse everything I just said above when talking about Christ. It's a new nature - one that builds treasure in heaven. Sometimes the old nature ("Flesh") fights against it, because we live in these bodies where death is still a reality.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Thanks for that. It brings cause then to find out if God has a reason to create men or not.
Perhaps He says why somewhere in His Word ?
If God is infinitely self sufficient then he/she/it would have no motivation to create anything. Therefore the universe and all it contains would not exist.

I think I just disproved the existence of God.

You can all go home now. :)
OB
 
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