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But that isn't WHY we have kids. We have kids because the drive to survive compels us to procreate. We live short lives, so must breed.
Once the kids are born, we then parent them for THEIR sake, more than we do our own.
That's not why I have kids. I have kids because I made love to my wife and we knew a child would result from our love making. We definitely were not thinking "we must procreate so humanity does not go extinct!"
There is a biological imperative to continue our species.
First off two things:
1. This isn´t meant to prove the Christian God non-existent (albeit imo, it is related to e.g. the Problem of Evil). It´s just about something at the core of Christian theology that doesn´t make any sense at all, to me.
2. Obviously, I am looking for an explanation that makes sense on human terms. Thus, if your explanation or line of reasoning will eventually come down to or contains at some point "God´s ways are mysterious" or "It´s beyond human understanding" or some other non-explanatory element, I would kindly ask you to abstain from participating.
The question in short:
Why would a non-material/non-physical (entirely "spiritual") being create a material/physical world when the actual goal (that which it is all about) is again a "spiritual" state of affairs?
More in detail:
"Spiritual" realms and physical/natural/material realms are quite apparently very different in nature, the problems (assuming for a moment there are problems in the "spiritual realm" at all) are of very different nature and manifestations, and problem-solving requires totally different means and competences in those different realms.
Just to name the first two things that come to mind as appearing exclusive to the physical realm (and which seem to be the basis for most "evil", "suffering", "trouble", "struggles", "sins" (or whatever you want to call it - I hope you get the idea) :
- Limited resources
- Zero sum games.
The most frequent explanations I have heard for creating this physical realm:
It´s some kind of test run for the "spiritual" afterlife, a method to separate those who are fit for this afterlife from those who aren´t.
Now, what´s the point in creating realmB as a test for our fitness for realmA when those problems that we have to deal with/overcome in realmB don´t even exist in realmA?
Or IOW: why create a world exclusively for beings to prove that they are "not of this world"?
I agree with this, the challenge for you is explaining why this particular universe has generated intelligent life on this particular planet that has a biological imperative to procreate and is capable of meaningful observations of this planet and the universe. If you can explain why this has happened without the need to invoke a higher intelligence that has purposefully created it all for specific reasons, then I'm sure you'll win a nobel prize of some sort from your fellow atheists/agnostics who agree with you.
If there were such a thing as "the Atheist belief system", to begin with...If the Atheist belief system were accurate and there is no life beyond death then there would be no recollection of experience, no wisdom.
As for this discussion, whatever it is, Atheist would be a demographic that believe in a Godless universe. The faith group would presume to draw on experience in the future, the Atheist group don't see themselves as having a future beyond termination of their mortal body's. So whatever the work of life is as concerns the self, that growth is ultimately useless to a vanishing self.If there were such a thing as "the Atheist belief system", to begin with...
That´s adding redundant stuff to what makes an atheist: they don´t believe in a God. This isn´t a belief system.As for this discussion, whatever it is, Atheist would be a demographic that believe in a Godless universe.
This isn´t actually covered by "atheist".The faith group would presume to draw on experience in the future, the Atheist group don't see themselves as having a future beyond termination of their mortal body's.
Even if I believed all the stuff you added to "atheism" - I´d still believe that it´s ultimately useful, since ultimate means "the highest/greatest possible". You don´t get to superimpose your ideas of "ultimate" upon someone else´s world view, and then sell the result as the belief of the other person.So whatever the work of life is as concerns the self, that growth is ultimately useless to a vanishing self.
I agree with this, the challenge for you is explaining why this particular universe has generated intelligent life on this particular planet that has a biological imperative to procreate and is capable of meaningful observations of this planet and the universe. If you can explain why this has happened without the need to invoke a higher intelligence that has purposefully created it all for specific reasons, then I'm sure you'll win a nobel prize of some sort from your fellow atheists/agnostics who agree with you.
Why? Don't you mean "how"?
There may be no why, and there doesn't need to be a why, but the how is not yet understood. Could be a thousand little prompts converging, and that convergence could be repeated all over the universe. We're logistically isolated from that information at present.
I´m not sure what you mean by "Why?" when not referring to an intentional process.We all have to ask "why?" before we can understand the "how". If we ask "how" first then we've already bypassed the meaning for why something works the way it works. Essentially, only asking "how" and not "why", limits the complete understanding of a process.
I´m not sure what you mean by "Why?" when not referring to an intentional process.
We all have to ask "why?" before we can understand the "how". If we ask "how" first then we've already bypassed the meaning for why something works the way it works. Essentially, only asking "how" and not "why", limits the complete understanding of a process.
When someone dies we ask how. We can ask why, but it's merely a bleat of protest. A child asks why she has freckles, or needs glasses, but the answer is the how. Why is simply the ego's way of asking the how regarding processes.
I don´t - what makes you assume that that´s what I think?What makes you think we know some processes are unintentional?
No, that´s putting the cart before the horse.The fact that we don't know is exactly why we should always ask "Why?"
If you're okay with never asking "why" regarding the biggest questions about reality and existence then that is your choice that you're free to make.
Thanks for your time.
Seems to me that recollection of experience and the passage of wisdom across generations is handled by language and culture; e.g. learning from previous generation(s) & passing knowledge to the next.If the Atheist belief system were accurate and there is no life beyond death then there would be no recollection of experience, no wisdom.
Our experiences in this life stay with us going forward in the next life.Seems to me that recollection of experience and the passage of wisdom across generations is handled by language and culture; e.g. learning from previous generation(s) & passing knowledge to the next.
What part do you feel that life beyond death plays in recollection of experience and wisdom?
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