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Christian Gedge

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To clarify, here is how I read Dan 9:26,27 (N.K.J.Version, bracketed notes added)


After the sixty-two weeks Messiah (Jesus) shall be cut off, but not for himself; and the people (Roman troops in ad 70) of the prince who is to come (Titus, a roman general and prince) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, and till the end of the war desolations are determined.

He (Messiah) shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week (3½ yrs after his revealing) shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. (temple curtain torn) And on the wing of abominations (ongoing sacrifice an abomination) shall be one who makes desolate, (Titus destroys temple) even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate. (judgement on Jerusalem)
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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Very interesting C G.
It almost appears to be similar to Dan 8:23 concerning Rebels and a King, master of intrigue which could be Titus or Vespasian?

Eze 20:38I will purge the rebels from among you, and those who transgress against Me; I will bring them out of the country where they dwell, but they shall not enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the LORD.

Hos 5:2
The rebels are knee-deep in slaughter. I will discipline all of them.

Dan 8:23 - “In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a fierce-looking king, a master of intrigue, will arise
.

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism



==============================================
You and or others may be interested in this site concerning the 1st century Jewish Wars.
From what I know, tho Titus got involved in some of the heavier fighting, it practically came of the war without a serious injuries......

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted


Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive

CAST OF CHARACTERS: Roman: Emperor Nero | General Vespasian | General Titus | The Roman Army || Jewish: General / Historian Josephus | Factional Leaders in Jerusalem || Administrators of Roman Judea Targets: Jerusalem | Herod's Temple // Maps of the Roman Invasion // Theological Timeline

MAY, A.D. 66 - JERUSALEM
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66


The Factions in Jerusalem During the Roman Siege


The Roman Procurator Florus demands 17 talents from the Jewish Temple treasury. This is the triggering insult for the Jews to begin their revolt. The Roman garrison in Jerusalem is overrun by rebels, who take control of the city. The rebels cause cessation of all sacrifices to the Roman Emperor, thus challenging Rome head-on.

The Jewish War, 4.4.5 286-287 "There broke out a prodigious storm in the night, with the utmost violence, and very strong winds, with the largest showers of rain, with continued lightnings, terrible thunderings, and amazing concussions and bellowings of the earth, that was in an earthquake. These things were a manifest indication that some destruction was coming upon men, when the system of the world was put into this disorder; and any one would guess that these wonders foreshowed some grand calamities that were coming. ....The Idumeans thought that God was angry at their taking arms, and that they would not escape punishment for their making war upon their metropolis. Ananus and his party thought that they had conquered without fighting, and that God acted as a general for them; but truly they proved both ill conjectures at what was to come... For as the night was far gone, and the storm very terrible, Ananus gave the guards in the cloisters leave to go to sleep; while it came into the heads of the Zealots to make use of the saws belonging to the Temple, and to cut the bars of the gates to pieces. The noise of the wind, and that not inferior sound of the thunder, did here also conspire with their designs, that the noise of the saws was not heard by the others. So they secretly went out of the Temple to the wall of the city, and made use of their saws, and opened that gate which was over against the Idumeans..."

Florus cannot handle the situation, so the (Roman) Syrian Governor, Cestius Gallus, is called in to subdue the rebellion. He attacks Jerusalem, gets up to the walls of the city, then unexpectedly withdraws, suffering heavy losses in retreat.
=============================================
 
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mkgal1

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Exactly. Really well said (I especially love your verbiage that I put in bold text)
 
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CharismaticLady

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LOL, tell that to them. The Quran tells them to kill Jews and Christians.
 
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mkgal1

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And on the wing of abominations (ongoing sacrifice an abomination) shall be one who makes desolate, (Titus destroys temple) even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate. (judgement on Jerusalem)
I just differ a small bit on this. I see it more like this:

And on the wing of abominations (referring to all the prophets that God had sent to them to inform them of their coming Messiah - and how they'd murdered these prophets and refused to listen to them - Christ Jesus was born.....and He) shall be One who makes desolate (Jesus - the new creation - the new House where His glory dwells.....leaving the Temple in Jerusalem void of God's presence) even until the consummation (the actual Day of Vengeance), which is determined (by Jesus, acting as High Priest - during His cleansing of the Temple 2x), is poured out on the desolate (the second Temple - judgement on Jerusalem).
 
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CharismaticLady

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Yes, I agree in the Spiritual Israel that the Church is now a part of, but national Israel will come into the Church during the last 7 years before the second coming of Christ. BTW, do preterists believe in the second coming, or that He already came?
 
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mkgal1

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LOL, tell that to them. The Quran tells them to kill Jews and Christians.
NO, the Quran states no such thing. Only people that misinterpret the Quran believe that. Muhammad had created one of the most peaceful and fair societies in the covenant of Medina - where Jews, Muslims, and Christians all lived together as equals.

About the covenant of Medina:
To achieve justice among all people of Medina, the covenant was established on four main pillars:

1-Peaceful coexistence amongst all sectors of the society and the protection and security to all. The Covenant said: “This writing will not give protection to one who perpetrates an injustice or committed a crime,” and “Whoever goes out to fight as well as whoever stays at home shall be safe and secure in this city; but no security is there to the oppressor.”

2- Freedom of belief to all. The Prophet’s covenant stated: “The Jews shall profess their faith, the Muslims theirs.”

3- All share equally in the political, social and military life in Medina.
The covenant states: “The Jews shall contribute with the Muslims while at war with a common enemy.”

4-The principle of individual responsibility: "None shall go to war except with the permission of Muhammad, but this shall not hinder any from seeking lawful revenge. (As against this) one who commits murder, he invites catastrophe for himself and for his family, unless he has been wronged. And verily God watches honest fulfillment of this article.” ~ What did the Covenant of Medina achieve in terms of religious coexistence?

I love my Muslim friends and neighbors as well.
 
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mkgal1

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Yes, I agree in the Spiritual Israel that the Church is now a part of, but national Israel will come into the Church during the last 7 years before the second coming of Christ. BTW, do preterists believe in the second coming, or that He already came?
The People of God has NEVER been about a place - a location - or about political forces or human kingdoms. He is our King. His kingdom came on earth at His first advent.

Partial preterists - like myself - do believe in a future return of Christ, yes.....but every time you read "come" or "coming" in the Bible does not automatically refer to His future return (what you're calling "His second coming").

He came in judgement and in salvation in 70 A.D. (as Jesus had warned/promised).
 
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CharismaticLady

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70 AD does not fulfill all prophecy. The prophecy of Israel is for a future and a hope, not just judgement. Read Hosea 6:1-3 Do you understand what is being said?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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That also sounds good to me mkgal.................

Matthew 23:
33 "Serpents! offspring of vipers! how? ye may be fleeing from the judging<2920> of the Gehenna<1067>
34 `Because of this behold! I am commissioning toward ye Prophets and Wisemen and Scribes,
out of Them Ye shall be Killing and ye shall be crucifying......
35 "So-that may be coming upon ye all just blood being poured out upon the land, from the blood of Abel the Righteous-one till of the blood of Zacharias, son of Barachias, whom ye murder<5407> between the sanctuary and the altar

1 thess 2:14
For ye imitators were become brothers of the Assemblies of the GOD, the ones being in the Judea in Christ Jesus. That these suffered and ye by the own together-tribes, according as also they by the Judeans.
15 Of the also the Lord Jesus killing and the own of them prophets, and us persecuting; and to God no pleasing and to all men against,
16 forbidding us to the nations to speak that they may be being saved, into the to fill up of them the sins always. Outstrips yet upon them the wrath into a finish/end/teloV <5056>.

James 5:6
Ye condemn, ye murder the Righteous-One, not He is resisting to Ye.

Revelation 9:21 And not they repent/reform out of their murders of, nor out from their sorceries,...........

=============================
Please be sure to vote on my 70AD Jerusalem thread:

Is Jerusalem 70 ad the great City in Revelation?
  1. *
    Yes
    6 vote(s)
    24.0%
  2. No
    13 vote(s)
    52.0%
  3. Maybe
    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
  4. Never thought about it that way
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  5. I don't know, but am willing to learn
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  6. Why does it matter?
    0 vote(s)
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  7. Other [please explaine]
    4 vote(s)
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  8. It is Rome
    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
 
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mkgal1

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70 AD does not fulfill all prophecy. The prophecy of Israel is for a future and a hope, not just judgement. Read Hosea 6:1-3 Do you understand what is being said?
Did I ever post that 70 A.D. fulfilled ALL prophecy?

I'm glad you brought up Hosea 6:1-3 (especially v. 2). Yes.....I believe I understand what's being said in that passage. Do YOU? Where else in history do you expect this will be repeated (or are you waiting for this to happen the FIRST time in the future?):

"In two days He will put new life in us; on the third day He will raise us up so that we may live in His presence and know Him. Let's try to learn about the LORD; He will come to us as surely as the dawn comes. He will come to us like rain; like the spring rain that waters the ground." ~ Hosea 6:2-3

Please inform me of what you believe I'm missing.
 
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mkgal1

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What I noticed recently is that passage in 1 Thessalonians 2:14 and how (I believe, anyway) it ties into this passage:

Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there
will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; and they will fall by the edge of the
sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and
Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles [or apostates/unbelievers] are fulfilled.” [Luke 21:23-24 NAS95
boldface added]
It wasn't originally the Romans that were trampling Jerusalem. It was (as 1 Thessalonians 2:14 mentions) fellow (apostate) Jews (the zealots mostly) - called "unbelievers"/Gentiles that were causing all the bloodshed first.

1 Thessalonians 2:14 ~ For you became imitators, brothers, of the churches of God in Judea being in Christ Jesus. For the same as them, you also suffered from the own countrymen as they also did from the Jews.
 
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DavidPT

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As interesting as this post was, I'm still not seeing what abomination happened in the temple in Jerusalem that caused it to then be destroyed in the first century. God was the one that initially required animal sacrificing, it was all His idea. Some have concluded, maybe not you though, IDK, that the continuing of animal sacrificing after Christ's death was the abomination. We know that can't be correct though, because according to the Discourse, when one sees the abomination, they are then to flee into the mountains at that time. Obviously they would be seeing animal sacrificing going on for another 40 years, and if that is the abomination, well folks should have been fleeing to the mountains continuously for this entire 40 years, yet no one was. So we can at least rule that theory out, that animal sacrificing was the abomination.
 
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mkgal1

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As interesting as this post was, I'm still not seeing what abomination happened in the temple in Jerusalem that caused it to then be destroyed in the first century.
You don't think that the priest's and religious leader's rejection of Christ and the murders of all the prophets were enough to consider them "unclean" in the Temple? As Christian Gedge has already posted - after Jesus had been crucified.....the priests (that were no longer representing God any longer and had NO right to be officiating as High Priests) continued offering sacrifices. That was idolatry. Their temple was their god.

It wasn't ONE abomination. God gave them MANY chances - and an extra 40 years after He'd been revealed in person. This is ONE example of what happened in the Temple (besides the idolatrous animal sacrifices after Jesus was the perfect sacrifice and by an unclean priesthood officiating in the Temple):

Matthew 23:35 ~ Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you killed between the temple and the altar.
 
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mkgal1

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I'm still not seeing what abomination happened in the temple in Jerusalem that caused it to then be destroyed in the first century
A temple - void of the presence of God - is to be destroyed as per the Mosaic Law. The 2nd Temple actually never had the presence of the LORD. The "glory had departed" the first temple when this happened (from what I can tell):


The Maccabean Revolt
In 175 B.C.E. Antiochus IV Epiphanes (“[god] manifest”) took the Seleucid throne. Antiochus was an eccentric despot who sought to enforce Hellenization throughout his empire. When Jason, a priest who was pro-Greek offered a huge sum of money for the High Priesthood and promised to turn Jerusalem into a Greek city, Antiochus accepted and Hellenization proceeded at a rapid pace. But Jason was soon out-bought by Menelaus, a rival for the post. Eventually civil war broke out among the various rival factions. Antiochus, disgruntled because of his setback in the war with Egypt, interpreted the civil strife in Jerusalem as a revolt against his Hellenizing efforts. He attacked Jerusalem, exterminated all males who resisted, and sold women and children into slavery. The city walls were torn down and the old citadel of the Temple was fortified as a Greek garrison (the Akra). Then Antiochus attempted to obliterate the Jewish religion by forbidding Temple sacrifices, traditional festivals, Sabbath worship, and the rite of circumcision (the sign of the covenant), upon pain of death. Torah scrolls were ordered destroyed, and every town in Judea was commanded to sacrifice to the Greek gods. An altar was erected over the altar of burnt offering in the Jerusalem Temple; sacrifices were offered to the Olympian high god, Zeus. This event was etched on the memory of the Jews as “the abomination of desolation” (1 Macc 1:54, 59; Dan 11:31; 12:11) ~ The Jewish World of Jesus: An Overview
 
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jgr

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Matthew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Luke clarifies the meaning of the abomination of desolation.

It is the Roman armies encircling Jerusalem, the holy city.
 
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mkgal1

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You're exactly right, jgr. I got off track.
 
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CharismaticLady

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One of the clues is the early and latter rain.

Here, I believe, one prophetic day is 1000 years.

2000 years need to pass from either the partial blinding of Israel, or 70 AD, which will bring us to the second coming and the Millennium of 1000 years (1 day).

The early and latter rain have to do with Jesus and the Holy Spirit. After the first coming the Holy Spirit fell, and it is happening again before the next coming of Christ.

This is my own conclusion of the text.
 
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jgr

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THERE ARE TWO PRINCES MENTIONED IN THE DISCOURSE

There are two specific references to a prince in Daniel 9:24-27.

There is one identified prince in the passage.

He is Messiah.

All references to "he" in the passage resolve back to Him.

He is the Central Figure in the passage.
 
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