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Featured The Preterist Gap

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Christian Gedge, Oct 6, 2019.

  1. Christian Gedge

    Christian Gedge Active Member

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    I’ve been somewhat surprised to learn that some Preterists finish Daniels 70th week in AD 70. They postulate a 40 year gap between the “cutting off of Messiah in the midst of the week” and the destruction of the temple in AD 70. We might expect this kind of theory from full Preterists, but it comes from part-Preterists as well.

    However, in so doing Preterists are being hypocritical when condemning Futurists for doing exactly the same thing by inserting a 2000 year gap. The only difference is length – but a gap nonetheless.

    The proper explanation is simple. The 70 weeks finished 3 1/2 years after the crucifixion. Can someone explain why they believe the 70th week ends in AD 70? I suspect it is to do with verse 26 of Dan. 9. But there is a better way of interpreting that verse.
     
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  2. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    Hey. So, some partial-preterists understand much of Revelation to have been fulfilled at the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

    Another approach is to see Revelation largely as a spiritual metaphor for both the individual Christian life, and what will happen to the Church (symbolized by Jerusalem), in the end times.
     
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  3. mothcorrupteth

    mothcorrupteth Old Whig Monarchist, Classically Realpolitik

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    I forget. But as always, if you want the most exhaustive argument about it, look at Reformed authors. Kenneth Gentry and David Chilton were my go-to guys, when I went through a partial-preterist phase.

    https://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/pdf/1989_gentry_before-jerusalem-fell.pdf
    https://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/pdf/1987_chilton_days-of-vengeance.pdf
     
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  4. Christian Gedge

    Christian Gedge Active Member

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    Thanks Moth. But Prets are known for being wordy. Can you suggest pages so that I don't go cross-eyed reading 2 entire books? :confused:
     
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  5. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    All I can tell you is this. Their interpretations are not making much sense of the some of the texts involved. But neither is your interpretation making much sense of some of the txts involved either.

    Verse 27 has the entire 70th week in view. It is beyond ludicrous to apply this part---and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate--to something that Christ did during the 70th week. If the 70 weeks contain no gaps, that means we have to apply this part I just submitted, to that of the 3.5 years remaining of the 70th week. IOW, these things would have to be fulfilled within 3.5 years of Christ's death, thus why I indicated it's beyond ludicrous.

    The way some of you try and get around this, you claim some of verse 27 is meaning a time post the 70th week. Yet it's not though. Until some of you can grasp that fact, thus accept it, you're going to continue to misinterpret some of this prophecy, mainly having to do with the 70th week.
     
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  6. mothcorrupteth

    mothcorrupteth Old Whig Monarchist, Classically Realpolitik

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    Wish I could. But it was like, 8 years ago that I was into this stuff. I barely remember the arguments over which verse of Matthew 24/25 is the pause button, much less where, in between paeons to liturgical incense, David Chilton talks about Daniel. I'd recommend going to the PDF I linked to for his book, hitting CTRL+F, and searching for "Daniel."
     
  7. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You are speaking of Daniel 9:27 and thinking that it was Jesus who put an end to sacrifice and offering. But that didn't actually happen until 70 AD. Jesus may have made it mute, but it still happened while the temple was still standing. What happened of any consequence at 3 1/2 years after the Crucifixion? After the Messiah is cut off in verse 25, is He still the prince that was to come?

    You may not be aware of this but 70 AD was in the middle of the last Jewish revolt that started in 66 AD and ended in 73 AD. 7 years. The destruction of the temple was prophesied by Jesus, so why wouldn't it be part of Daniel 9?

    By the way, I'm not any kind of Preterist, whether full or partial. I just know Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13 and also know that the first Jewish 7 year revolt during the reign of Antiochus Epiphanes IV, 167 BC to 160 BC, with the temple being desecrated in 164 BC was a paradigm of the next 7 year Jewish revolt to 70 AD and Titus.

    cc: @BABerean2
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
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  8. Christian Gedge

    Christian Gedge Active Member

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    Well, as far as God was concerned it was end to sacrifice and offering. Isn't that was Jesus meant by, "It is finished?"

    Im sure a Charismatic Lady would have heard of the Gentile Pentecost. (Yes, 3 1/2 years after the Cross, speaking in tongues and all)

    As I understand it, there were 2 princes in Daniel 9.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
  9. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Do you think the angel Gabriel came to reveal to Daniel the timeline of the Messiah who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and then the angel failed to even mention the New Covenant?

    In Matthew 10:5-7, Christ specifically commanded His disciples not to go to the Gentiles, but to take the Gospel first to Israel.

    This is confirmed by Paul in Romans 1:16, where Paul said the Gospel was taken "first" to Israel. When did that happen?


    In Galatians 1:14-18, Paul reveals that he began his ministry to Gentiles about 3 years after his conversion.

    Daniel 9:27 reveals that the New Covenant would be "confirmed" for about 7 years with Daniel's people. The Messiah would be cut off during the middle of that time period.


    Bible scholars believe Christ's earthly ministry lasted about 3 1/2 years.
    Add 50 days until Pentecost, when Paul held the coats of those who stoned Stephen.
    Add to that about 3 years before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles after his conversion.

    The summary of Daniel 9:24 is found fulfilled in Hebrews 10:16-18, and Acts of the Apostles 10:38.

    What do we find below in the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.

    .......................................................

    Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.

    Daniel 9:27
    And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    (a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

    (b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

    (c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

    .
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
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  10. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It wasn't 3 1/2 years, it was 50 days after the resurrection on the Feast of Pentecost that speaking in tongues was given. Are you speaking of Cornelius? How do you know it was 3 1/2 years.
     
  11. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is only one individual identified as a prince in the entire passage.

    It is Messiah. (Daniel 9:25)

    Daniel 9:26: "...the people of the prince that shall come..."

    The people who came were the Romans under the command and control of Messiah, who were His agents of judgment and destruction. They were "the people of the prince", i.e. Messiah the prince.
     
  12. Christian Gedge

    Christian Gedge Active Member

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    Berean has made an important point. The 70 weeks ended when the gospel was taken to the Gentiles. This occurred 3.5 years after the Cross. (Acts 10)
     
  13. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

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    How can Jesus was the Messiah that was cut off. The prince to come is later.
     
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  14. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Messiah the prince was fully alive in 70 AD.
     
  15. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jesus talks of the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel. That is in 70 AD when Jesus prophesied that not one block would remain on top of another of the temple.

    It has nothing to do with Cornelius.
     
  16. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

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    ..
     
  17. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Now you're getting technical :D
     
  18. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That's life. :)
     
  19. Christian Gedge

    Christian Gedge Active Member

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    The early church put a great significance on the Gentile Pentecost. And yes, it was 3.5 years after the Cross. I can't prove that to the month, but I can show the year.
     
  20. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

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    When was the fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy of Matthew 24:2? And what about His reference to Daniel and the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place? That certainly wasn't Jesus.
     
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