The pre-tribulation lie!

[Prophetic]

PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE LIES!​

It is my prayer that the reader of this might not rush the reading and also that he/she may ask the Teacher (ie The Holy Spirit) to walk with them as they read so as they can see clearly with their spirit man the truth that lies within this document. For it is a stiff warning and a real warning to those who are living in this time to become blameless and holy so as to live in the coming days of judgment for which is my firm belief every born again Christian shall have to endure. May God grant us all spiritual wisdom rightly dividing the Word of truth! Amen.



Despite popular opinion in Christendom of the believers not going through the tribulation, scripture on many accounts, verifies Christ’s return at the 7th trumpet.

This dangerous teaching of a pre-tribulation rapture, leads the unlearned or undiscerning Christian into a deceptive belief that they will be spared from God’s trying period upon the world.



I will reveal the many scriptures written by numerous prophets of the Old and New Testament that in perfect harmony with the Holy Spirit, speak of Christ’s return in sequence with the 7th trumpet being sounded.



The only scripture that ambiguously speaks of Christ keeping the Church from the hour of temptation in which He will test the world is (Revelation 3:10: Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.) where John wrote to the church in Philadelphia. Evidently this church received this promise 1900yrs ago (the church in Philadelphia does not exist today.) If Christ is speaking prophetically to a spiritual end-time Philadelphian church, then the believers are to be faithful in their walk. Even in the case that Christ keeps these spiritual believers protected, it does not mean they will be raised before the tribulation; otherwise the following scriptures would contradict views of a pre-tribulation rapture.

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In (Matthew 24:29-31:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.) Jesus speaks to his disciples of his promised return. He mentions that after the TRIBULATION of those days, the sun will be darkened as well as numerous events happening in heaven and on the earth. Verse 31 we see how at the sound of a TRUMPET he will send forth his angels and gather his elect from the four winds.

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This is in harmony with (1Corinthians15:51-52: 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.) Paul is letting the Corinthians know a MYSTERY about the TRUMPET sounding and we will be changed and raised after the dead incorruptible. He reaffirms this in his 1st Epistle to the Thessalonians



(1Thessalonians 4:16-17: For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.) Verse 17 even gives a prelude to (us who are alive and remain) that there will be a great tribulation of Christian martyrdom and global catastrophes. Daniel bears witness to this great time of trouble such has not been and never again will be. He concludes also the dead will be raised and we will be delivered. (Daniel 12:1-2: 1 “At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.)





This MYSTERY Paul speaks of to Corinth (1Corinthians15:51-52: Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.) is also found in Revelation 10:7: but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.) which states that in the days of the 7th Trumpet, the MYSTERY of God is finished. In (Revelation 11:15: Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms[a] of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!”) the 7th Angel sounds and the kingdoms of this world are handed over to Christ.



Jesus Christ’s return will be (Matthew 24:27 : For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.)His return will also destroy the Antichrist (2thessalonians 2:8 : And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming



If the Christian church will be raised before the mark of the beast is enforced (Revelation13:16: He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,) How can the beast enforce the mark when he is destroyed at the coming of Christ? (2Thessalonians2:8: And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.)



Now if Christ returns thus sealing up prophecy, bringing in everlasting righteousness (Daniel 9:24: “ Seventy weeks[a] are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of[b] sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.



1 Corinthians13:9-10: 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.) collects His Bride (Matthew 24:31:31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.) and the kingdoms of this world have been handed over to Him (Revelation11:15: 15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms[a] of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!”)



How or Why would God send the two witnesses to Prophesy 1260 days after the Mystery of God is finished? (Revelation 11:3 : And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”)


Go to part two

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[Prophetic]

Part two

The only sequence that stands Biblically with all the aforementioned verses is:



1-6 trumpets released (Revelation 8:7-9:21)as the two witnesses Prophesy

(Revelation11:3-13), the Antichrist makes war against the two witnesses and kills them (Revelation11:7) and avenges the Bride of Christ (Revelation12:17:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.) enforcing his mark and worship. The 7th trumpet is sounded and Christ returns destroying the Antichrist (2Thessalonians2:8: 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.) raising the dead and those left Caught up in the air (1Corinthians15:51-52:Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.) , 1Thessalonians 4:16-17: 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord., Daniel 12:1-2: 1 “At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.) before the seven vials of God’s wrath are poured out upon the unbelieving world (Revelation16:1-17)



The belief that Christ will rapture His church then come again later to destroy the Antichrist; fails completely in light of all the contrary scripture.



Some pre-tribulation theorists suggest that the two witnesses will speak to the 144,000 Jewish virgins, after the Christian church is raptured.



Others confuse the 1000 year millennial reign, supposing Christ will destroy the antichrist then. This is not scripturally supported.



Many people have been deceived through following popular beliefs or subtle persuasion.



This revelation is not necessary for salvation neither need it be the cause of denominational dissension. If delivered with love will be extremely beneficial in spiritually preparing the Christian church for the coming woes. If neglected it could prove very much on the contrary. For example, if someone warned you of a coming tidal wave but said “don’t worry a helicopter will pick you up before it hits”, you would react differently to them saying “a tidal wave is coming but the helicopter won’t be here till after the wave hits”. You would go and prepare yourselves spiritually.





Please respond with your comments!

 

[Hisown]

I have long believed that there would be no debate on this if it was indeed clearly explained in His Word. Only our spirit knows; we cannot change the minds of others.
Here are exerpts all from the same Word given.
My spirit tells me this refers to the rapture and that I will be delivered from the tribulation.

God – The day of the Lord is at hand. I will prosper that, that I will prosper and I will take that, that I will take. And blessed be the Name of the Lord forever and forever.
The Lord moves in a mighty revelation for all people. But only those that seek, shall not perish. The day of the Lord is at hand and there is a reckoning that moves forthwith in the midst of all mankind. And it is a day like unto no other. It is a day that the mothers hearts will cry out for their children. It is a day that the lost will mourn. It is a day of great agony. It is a day brought upon this world by the depth of the sin thereof.

But I say unto you, rejoice. Lift up your head, for unto you the crown of deliverance is given. And woe unto those that have looked aside and have chosen other gods in which to worship. For it is a day of great peril, a day of great confusion, a day of great atrocity. And woe, woe to him who has gone astray and has chosen his own god.



God – …which truth has been revealed unto you. And I say gather up all that you can gather and standfast. The day of reckoning is at hand and it shall be achieved in that final hour. But woe unto him that has turned aside unto all the greatness that I would have placed upon him. Woe unto him who has chosen other gods over Me. Woe unto him who shall perish in that mighty hour, that walketh in his own way and his own truth. Woe, woe, woe that is to come upon this earth; woe.



And woe unto them, for they shall mourn…for that, that could have been. But they chose not. Woe, woe, woe unto them.

But lift up your head, and rejoice, for great is the might and majesty upon you. And be not led astray into the falsehoods of others. But as you have tasted of the truth and the fruit, come forth in that, that you know…and leave the rest to Me. Great and mighty is My hand upon you. And you shall not perish in the maelstrom that is to follow.



God – Great and mighty is the hand upon you Suffer not, but be forewarned.

Revelation – My Spirit rises up within me to speak the truth that is given. And the truth is henceforth and now forevermore of that great and mighty God who sits on high, with all power…

And I’m seeing what they call a “quiver”, that thing that holds the arrows.

…and will disperse due justice. (when studying this Word on 1/5, He called this “a wake up call”.)

God – But suffer not the calamity of others, for you are held safe.

 

[Imagsusman]

Its appropriate to include the authors name when using their material...Or it is called plagiarism.

 

[murjahel]

Many ask, "Where is the promise of His coming ?" These scoffers doubt and mock the idea of the rapture of the church. Others say, "Why study it ? There are too many different opinions." Some will say it is too speculative. Some just want to recite all the different ideas, leave everyone confused, and draw no conclusions on the rapture.

Scoffers have done their work. They have brought into a great portion of the church--confusion, apathy, and ignorance--about the rapture. God did not intend for Christians to be confused, apathetic, or ignorant. He means for us to have knowledge, awareness, and an anxiousness for the rapture.

CAN WE KNOW THE DAY OR HOUR?

I Thessalonians 5:4-5 "BUT YE, BRETHREN, ARE NOT IN DARKNESS, THAT THAT DAY SHOULD OVERTAKE YOU AS A THIEF. YE ARE ALL THE CHILDREN OF LIGHT, AND THE CHILDREN OF THE DAY: WE ARE NOT OF THE NIGHT, NOR OF DARKNESS."

Some have often quoted the verse that says that we won't know the "day nor the hour." They have used it to keep others from talking about when the Lord may come. God never intended for us to not study and know about the time of His Son's return. Consider the verse:

Mark 13:32-33 BUT OF THAT DAY (Greek = hemera, a 24 hour day, or from dawn to eve) AND THAT HOUR (Greek = hora, a short part of a day) KNOWETH NO MAN, NO NOT THE ANGELS IN HEAVEN, NEITHER THE SON, BUT THE FATHER. TAKE YE HEED, WATCH AND PRAY..."

There is reason that we cannot know the day, nor the hour. The earth is round, and if the Lord had said He were coming "at noon," there are some places on this round earth that it is past noon and they would say--"You are late." And at the same moment, others could say when He came--"You are early." The same is true for the day, since somewhere on this earth it is already tomorrow. If the Lord had promised to come today, some would already be saying "He is late."

In the passage about the "day" and "hour", you will note in verses 33 to 37, that four times the command is given to "watch." If this passage were intended to make us give up trying to ascertain the time of the Lord's coming, then why are we commanded to "watch" four times in the same passage ? The answer is that the Lord does want us to be aware, and to know the nearness of His coming. We are given signs to watch for; we are told to "look up" when we see certain signs occur, knowing these signs indicate a soon return of our Lord. We are also told signs that will indicate the "generation" in which the Lord will return.

TWO STAGES OF HIS COMING

Mark 13:30 "VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, THAT THIS GENERATION SHALL NOT PASS, TILL ALL THESE THINGS BE DONE."

__________ __________ __________

Jesus will soon return. His coming will be in two stages. The first part is called the RAPTURE. It will occur before the tribulation judgments are sent by God upon the earth. In the rapture, the Lord Jesus will secretly catch away His saints. The second stage of the Lord's coming is called the SECOND COMING. In this part, Jesus will return with the saints from heaven and begin to rule and reign on this earth for a thousand years.

In the RAPTURE He comes FOR His saints. In the SECOND COMING, He comes WITH His saints. Just as in the first coming of our Lord to earth, a time period of 33 years was spanned. In the next coming of our Lord, a time period of 7 years will be spanned.

__________ __________ __________

THE RAPTURE PREDICTED

Revelation 4:1 "AFTER THIS, I LOOKED AND BEHOLD, A DOOR WAS OPENED IN HEAVEN AND THE FIRST VOICE WHICH I HEARD WAS AS IT WERE A TRUMPET TALKING WITH ME, WHICH SAID, 'COME UP HITHER !'"

I Thessalonians 4:15-17 "WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN UNTO THE COMING OF THE LORD SHALL NOT PRECEDE THEM THAT ARE ASLEEP (dead)--FOR THE LORD HIMSELF SHALL DESCEND WITH A SHOUT (Rev. 4:1), WITH THE VOICE OF THE ARCHANGEL, AND THE TRUMP OF GOD, AND THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST, AND THEN WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN SHALL BE CAUGHT UP (Greek = harpadzo, to catch away out of harm's way) TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR, AND SO SHALL WE EVER BE WITH THE LORD."

Luke 21:36 "WATCH YE THEREFORE AND PRAY ALWAYS THAT YE MAY BE ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS THAT SHALL COME TO PASS AND TO STAND BEFORE THE SON OF MAN."

I Corinthians 15:51-52 "BEHOLD, I SHOW YOU A MYSTERY, WE SHALL NOT ALL SLEEP (die), BUT WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED. IN A MOMENT, IN A TWINKLING OF AN EYE, AT THE LAST TRUMP--FOR THE TRUMP SHALL SOUND (Rev. 4:1, I Thess. 4:15-17) AND THE DEAD SHALL BE RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE, AND WE SHALL BE CHANGED..."

II Thessalonians 2:1 "NOW WE BESEECH YOU BRETHREN, BY THE COMING OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND BY OUR GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM..."

II Thessalonians 2:7-8 "...HE THAT LETTETH (hinders) WILL LET (hinder) UNTIL HE BE TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY, AND THEN SHALL THAT WICKED ONE BE REVEALED..."

I Thessalonians 5:9 FOR GOD HATH NOT APPOINTED US TO WRATH..."

__________ __________ __________

The signs for the coming of the Lord that are given us in the Word of God--all point to the second stage of His coming. They point to the SECOND COMING, not to the RAPTURE. Thus, when we see these things "begin to come to pass," we are told to "look up" for the signs point to the part of His coming that is seven years after the event we want so much to see -- THE RAPTURE.



At one point in His earthly ministry, Jesus rebuked the Pharisees, who knew the Holy Scriptures, yet did not recognize Him as the Messiah, and did not know it was time for His coming. (Matthew 16:1-4) Yet, there are seven times more Scriptures for the second coming of Jesus that there are for the first coming. So if the Lord were angered by their lack of understanding of the times--how much more is He disturbed by those who do not know when it is the time of His coming ?

 

[murjahel]

REASONS TO BELIEVE IN A PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE

1. TRANSLATION OF GREEK WORDS REFERRING TO THE RAPTURE

There are a number of Greek words that are translated to describe the rapture.

HARPADZO =to be caught away, out of harms way by force

EKPHUGEIN = To escape away from a dreaded person or thing

APOLUTROSIS = to take unto oneself a valued object

All three of these indicate that the rapture would be BEFORE the thing can be harmed. For this and a number of other reasons, I believe the rapture is before the tribulation.

2. PURPOSE OF THE SEVENTIETH WEEK OF YEARS IS TO REDEEM ISRAEL

In the prophecy of Daniel, seventy sevens of years are given to Israel. Sixty nine of those have occurred, and the last seven of years is yet to occur. When the Lord has finished dealing with the Gentile church, He will again deal with the nation of Israel for seven years. This is the 70th week of Daniel, that we commonly call "the tribulation." Why should the church remain here for the Lord's final dealing with Israel ?

3. THERE IS NO MENTION OF THE CHURCH IN THE TRIBULATION PERIOD

There is no mention of the church in the tribulation. Israel and other nations are mentioned. The reason is that we, as Christians, may suffer the persecution of the world now; yet, in the tribulation, the judgments are the wrath of God--and we should not suffer His wrath.

4. THE CHURCH IS PROMISED TO ESCAPE THE HOUR OF TEMPTATION

The promise to the church of Philadelphia is:

Revelation 3:10 "I WILL KEEP THEE FROM THE HOUR OF TEMPTATION, WHICH SHALL BE UPON ALL THE WORLD TO TRY THEM THAT DWELL ON THE EARTH."

5. THE CHURCH IS "NOT APPOINTED UNTO WRATH"

The tribulation is a time of wrath on an ungodly world, on an apostate, backslidden church, and on a backslidden Israel. We, the true church, are "NOT APPOINTED UNTO WRATH." (I Thessalonians 5:9)

We are to be "delivered from the wrath to come."

I Thessalonians 1:10 "TO WAIT FOR HIS SON FROM HEAVEN...WHICH DELIVERED US FROM THE WRATH TO COME."

6. TYPOLOGY OF THE OLD TESTAMENT SHOWS A PRE-JUDGMENT RAPTURE

In the Scriptures, types are used to illustrate the picture of the rapture which was to be fully revealed later. In the rapture of Enoch, it came before the judgment of the flood. In the story of Lot and his family, they were delivered before the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. These show that the nature of God is to deliver His own, before He pours out His wrath. The rapture of the church precedes the tribulation.

7. THE ANTICHRIST IS NOT TO BE REVEALED UNTIL THE CHURCH IS REMOVED

The Bible teaches us that the Antichrist will not be revealed until the church is removed from the earth.

II Thessalonians 2:6-8 "HE THAT LETTETH (hinders) WILL LET (hinder), UNTIL HE BE TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY. AND THEN SHALL THAT WICKED (one) BE REVEALED..."

Some have argued that the "he" of the verse does not refer to the "church," because the church is the "bride of Christ." However, the church is not referred to by feminine pronouns, is not symbolized by a woman, and is not the "bride of Christ."(See Rev. 21:9-10)

The church is called a "man" in Ephesians 2:15, 4:13. Also the church is called the "body of Christ" in I Corinthians 12:12-13, 27, Ephesians 1:22-23, and Colossians 1:18, 24. So it is most appropriate to refer to the church as "he."

The church is the only "hinderer" of lawlessness that will be taken out of the world before the tribulation. The Holy Spirit will remain on the earth since there will be people being saved during most of the tribulation.( John 14:16, Acts 2:16-21, Rev. 12:17, with 19:10, Zechariah 12:10 to 13:1).

8. THE RAPTURE SCENE IN REVELATION IS SHOWN IN 4:1, AND IT IS SAID TO BE OCCURRING "AFTER THESE THINGS", (AFTER THE CHURCH AGES OF CHAPTERS 2 & 3)

In Revelation 4:1, the words "after these things" is the Greek "meta tauta" which means that the rest of the book deals with the things that will occur after the church ages described in chapters 2 and 3.

The words "church" and "churches" occur 19 times in chapters 1 to 3 of Revelation. Yet after the "open door" of Revelation 4:1, the words "church" and "churches" do not occur once in the book of Revelation.

The 24 elders of Revelation 4 and 5, have crowns on their heads. They represent the church and Old Testament saints. No one receives their crown until we all receive them on the day of the rapture. Paul testified to this in:

II Timothy 4:8 "HENCEFORTH THERE IS LAID UP FOR ME A CROWN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, WHICH THE LORD, THE RIGHTEOUS JUDGE, SHALL GIVE ME AT THAT DAY, AND NOT TO ME ONLY, BUT UNTO ALL THEM THAT LOVE HIS APPEARING."

9. THE TRIBULATION DESCRIBED IN CHAPTERS 6-19 OF REVELATION IS SHOWN TO OCCUR AFTER THE RAPTURE DAY FESTIVITIES IN HEAVEN SHOWN IN CHAPTERS 4-5

After chapters 4 and 5 of Revelation, there is a marked change in the attitude of the Lord toward the world. In chapters 1 to 3, it is MERCY. In chapters 6 to 19, God's attitude is one of JUDGMENT. The change occurs when His saints are called home, so He may begin pouring out His wrath on the world.

 

[murjahel]

WHO WILL GO IN THE RAPTURE?

Who will go in the rapture of the church ? The world has wondered, and much debate has evolved. Some have said all, and some have tried to say -only the righteous, and some have tried to limit it to those baptized in a certain way, or those who speak in tongues, or those who belong to a certain denomination. The Word of God is very specific to the who shall go in the rapture. We need to pay attention to the Word of God, and not to the dogmas of various bodies of believers. The Bible does give certain qualifications for those to be raptured.

1. BE "IN CHRIST"

I Thessalonians 4:14-16 "EVEN SO THEM ALSO WHICH SLEEP IN JESUS WILL GOD BRING WITH HIM...DEAD IN CHRIST WILL RISE FIRST...

II Corinthians 5:17 "IF ANY MAN BE IN CHRIST, HE IS A NEW CREATURE..."

Thus, if we are saved, and thereby are "in Christ" we are going to go in the rapture. If we do not backslide from our salvation, we will soon hear His call to "Come up hither."

2. BE PURE (by Christ's righteousness)

I John 3:2-3 "WHEN HE SHALL APPEAR, WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM FOR WE WILL SEE HIM AS HE IS AND EVERY MAN THAT HATH THIS HOPE IN HIM, PURIFIES HIMSELF..."

Ephesians 5:27 "THAT HE MIGHT PRESENT IT TO HIMSELF A GLORIOUS CHURCH, NOT HAVING SPOT OR WRINKLE, OR ANY SUCH THING--BUT THAT IT SHOULD BE HOLY AND WITHOUT BLEMISH."



We are not made pure by acts of righteousness. We are not saved by our good works. There is no baptismal formula that if pronounced over us that saves. There is no church roll to be signed to make sure we go. No, it is the righteousness of Christ, that is given by grace at salvation, that will make us to be pure and thereby able to go in the rapture. His righteousness alone qualified us for salvation. His righteousness alone will pay our way on that great excursion ride to our heavenly mansions.



THE THRONE ROOM SCENE, IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE RAPTURE

In Revelation chapters 4 and 5, John is shown a vision of the events in the throne room of God on the day of the rapture. This is a striking picture that can overwhelm one as they read and see and feel the joy of the saints as we worship our Lord on that first day in heaven.

THE THRONE

The throne is the center of John's attention. All he sees at first is the throne, and then slowly he begins to see what is near the throne and working his vision outward, he finally sees all the saints that are gathered there to honor the Lord and the Father. John was "in the spirit" viewing what would happen several thousand years later.

Revelation 4:2-3,5 "BEHOLD, A THRONE (mentioned 40 times in Scripture and always refers to a literal seat) WAS SET IN HEAVEN, AND ONE SAT (God, as a Person, can sit on a literal throne) ON THE THRONE, HE WAS TO LOOK UPON AS A JASPER (semi- transparent, greenish, called plasma today) AND A SARDINE STONE (ruby). THERE WAS A RAINBOW (multitude of colors) ROUND ABOUT THE THRONE, IN SIGHT LIKE UNTO AN EMERALD (green). ...OUT OF THE THRONE PROCEEDED LIGHTNINGS, AND THUNDERINGS, AND VOICES; AND THERE WERE SEVEN LAMPS OF FIRE (symbolic of the Holy Spirit, for the Spirit will be literally on the earth convicting sinners and saving souls) BURNING BEFORE THE THRONE, WHICH ARE THE SEVEN SPIRITS OF GOD. ("seven" denotes fullness and perfection)."



THE 24 ELDERS



Around the throne were seated 24 elders. (Rev. 4:4,10,5:8, 14) These were on thrones and had victor's crowns, priestly robes, and had harps, and golden bowls of incense. Who are these 24 elders ?

This can be best understood by looking in the Bible for the answer. In the book of I Chronicles chapter 24, we find there were 24 elders appointed by David to represent the Levitical priesthood.



Each of the 24 were to lead a division of the priesthood. Each division would serve at the tabernacle, and later, at the temple for a two week period. So the 24 elders in Revelation represent the whole priestly house.



In heaven, we will probably serve in the throne room periodically as the priesthood of the Old Testament period. The 24 are wearing crowns, so they are not angels. No saint wears a crown until the rapture (II Timothy 4:8), so this is a post rapture vision for John.

The word "elder" is presbyteros. It is never used to refer to angels, only mankind. The angels are always distinct from the elders (Rev. 5:11). The elders are wearing "white raiment", and only Christ and the saints are seen in white raiment in Rev. 3:5, 18, 6:11, 7:9,13, 15:6, 19:8-14. One of the elders identifies himself after escorting John through the revelation (Rev. 5:5-7, 7:13-15, 19:10, 22:8-9) He sang a song of the redeemed (5:8-9). He rejected worship and said:

Revelation 19:10 "I AM ...OF THY BRETHREN."

So these elders are the heads of the 24 divisions of the whole body of the saints in heaven. Who they are individually is unknown. Perhaps some of the positions are still open for application !

THE FOUR LIVING CREATURES (ZOA)



Around the throne are seen four living creatures.

Revelation 4:6-8 "...ROUND ABOUT THE THRONE WERE FOUR BEASTS ("zoa", not "therion" as used in describing the Antichrist and the False Prophet. These four zoa are living creatures.) FULL OF EYES, BEFORE AND BEHIND. AND THE FIRST BEAST (living creature) WAS LIKE A LION, (reminds the worshipper of the divine majesty of God) AND THE SECOND BEAST WAS LIKE A CALF, ( reminds the worshipper of the strength in service of the Lord) AND THE THIRD BEAST HAD A FACE AS A MAN reminds men of the humanity of the Lord Jesus), AND THE FOURTH BEAST WAS LIKE A FLYING EAGLE (reminds worshippers of the swiftness of the Lord in detecting evil). AND THE FOUR BEASTS HAD EACH OF THEM SIX WINGS, AND WERE FULL OF EYES WITHIN, AND THEY REST NOT DAY AND NIGHT SAYING 'HOLY, HOLY, HOLY (one "holy for each of the three members of the trinity), LORD GOD ALMIGHTY, WHICH WAS AND IS AND IS TO COME(this is a translation of the word "Jehovah")."

These angelic creatures fly about God's throne to constantly remind the worshippers about the throne that God is to be reverenced and worshipped. They call attention to His holiness, they worship, they sing and play harps, they offer to God the prayers of the saints, and they listen to the worship of others.

THE SAINTS

The saints will finally recognize their full purpose. There in heaven we will finally truly realize that we were created to give our God pleasure. Down here, too many "saints" think that God was created to give us pleasure.

Revelation 4:10-11 "THE 24 ELDERS FALL DOWN BEFORE HIM THAT SAT ON THE THRONE, AND WORSHIP HIM THAT LIVETH FOREVER AND EVER, AND CAST THEIR CROWNS BEFORE THE THRONE SAYING: 'THOU ART WORTHY TO RECEIVE GLORY, AND HONOR, AND POWER, FOR THOU HAST CREATED ALL THINGS AND FOR THY PLEASURE THEY ARE AND WERE CREATED.'"

THE FIVE RAPTURES OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION

It is the rapture that will soon transport us to the scene in Revelation 4, and 5. We long for this event to occur. There are many ideas about when it will occur. Already, I have shown why I believe it to be a pre-trib rapture. Some feel it will be a mid-trib rapture. Some others favor post-trib rapture. One of the main reasons for the confusion is the fact that there are five raptures in the first resurrection. Some scriptures are confused with the rapture of the church that really refer to the rapture of another group. The five raptures of the first resurrection are these:

1. Christ and many saints were raptured after His resurrection...

(I Cor. 15:20,23, Matt. 27:52-53, Eph. 4:8-10)

2. They that are Christ's at His coming (the church)...

(I Cor. 15:23,51-54, John 14:1-3, Lk. 21:34-36, I Thess. 4:16- 17)

3. 144,000 Jews that are saved soon after the tribulation begins and minister for 3 1/2 years and are then raptured...

(Rev. 7:1-8, 12:5, 14:1-5)

4. The tribulation saints (those saved after the rapture who give their lives for the Lord are finally resurrected and brought to heaven so all the saints are present at the marriage supper of the Lamb)

(Rev. 6:1,9-11, 7:9-17, 15:2-4)

5. The two witnesses of the tribulation

(Rev. 11:7-11)

The events that will put all these raptures in perspective will be explained in the further parts of this study. We may be assured, as was the early church, that the event we call the "rapture" will occur--and SOON.

I Corinthians 16:22

"MARANATHA (the Lord cometh)."

 

[vanilla8]

I believe that the church will be raptured and will not go through the tribulation. I have listened to all sided of the arguement, and I daresay that I have as much chance of persuading you that the rapture is pre-trib, as you have of presuading me that it is post-trib. It really is a hot-potato and, with respect, I'm not sure that it should be debated on this forum and not on eschatology.

 

[Prophetic]

Hi Guys

I just presented an arguement. Of course if I am prepared to go through the tribulation then I will be prepared to be raptured.

I find it most interesting that the two witnessess would have to MISS the rapture in order to do the LORDS will!

Two of the most righteous people to ever live on earth, not righteous enough to be raptured but have to stay back in the tribulation.I suppose a little knowledge is foolishness.

I don't mind staying for the tribulation either way I seek to be blameless and holy in my life and conduct.

Love ya

 

[Imagsusman]

Hi Guys

I just presented an arguement. Of course if I am prepared to go through the tribulation then I will be prepared to be raptured.

I find it most interesting that the two witnessess would have to MISS the rapture in order to do the LORDS will!

Two of the most righteous people to ever live on earth, not righteous enough to be raptured but have to stay back in the tribulation.I suppose a little knowledge is foolishness.

I don't mind staying for the tribulation either way I seek to be blameless and holy in my life and conduct.

Love ya

The two witnesses are here during Daniels 70th week,(the great tribulation) which is Gods last dealings with the Jews...Many will be converted to Jesus during this time..They were already "raptured", but their ministrys are not yet complete...

 

[murjahel]

The two witnesses do not 'miss' the rapture... They have already been raptured and return to do their three and a half years ministry after the church is raptured... and ... they are later slain, resurrected, and raptured again at the end of the trib......

so ... do not think they miss something..... LOL...

and this subject of the 'rapture' timing does belong on another forum... not here...

this is the prophetic ministry board...

sometimes, some want to try to identify 'false prophets' by such topics, meant to divide...

this is not a topic that should divide us as Christians, for though I believe and try to show Scripture to substantiate my beliefs... if some want or find sufficient evidence in Scripture to support another view, then we can discuss and kindly debate the Scriptures on the proper forum....

to make this an issue that if you wrongly believe on it, and are in error, you won't make it to heaven, is wrong...

We are saved by grace, by the love and mercy of Jesus... and if I were wrong, and the rapture that I prepare for does not happen pretrib, then the preparation for it will help me be ready for the trib that I did not expect to have to go through... and those who believe 'mid or post trib... then hopefully they will still be preparing to be ready to see Jesus, and not just gathering bullets and automatic rifles for a war...

The Lord does not want us preparing to kill people... WE are to be winning converts to a loving Jesus... and when judgment falls on this world, it will be Jesus Who will unseal the seven seals, dispatch from heaven ones to sound trumpet judgments, and pour out bowls of wrath...

The ones who so violently want to make pre-tribbers to appear as heretics, are those who are militant and militia oriented... That 'send=he=pre-tribbers=to=hell" doctrine is evil... and should be rebuked here on the prophet's board... and so I will here ... do it...

Take that 'I'm the only one going to heaven' doctrine and go debate this kind of topic elsewhere... ! I am a pre=tribber and can substantiate my stand with many Scriptures... I do not twist the Scriptures to validate a desire to hold weapons designed to kill.... I do not seek a following to get some to think I am one of the two witnesses like some do... They need to look beyond the 'blanket statements' of their beliefs, and search the Word of God to see if it truly says what their leaders told them it says... for it does not!!!

 

[Interesting2me]

'Prophetic', Your 'misinterpretations' of those who believe in a scriptural covering, escape, & protection from "The Great Tribulation"/"Jacob's Trouble" along with sincere scriptural believing Christians not familiar with "The Rapture" or pretribulation subjects, are as wrong as anything I've ever read using scriptures to justify your misguided views!

Sounds like something someone from a ufo gave! One has to be careful when handling Echad's/God's Word that can cause untold numbers to be needlessly lost or "Left Behind" after The Lord Jesus Christ returns "Like A Thief In The Night"! Careful [Gal.1:1-12] & Maranatha!

 

[Highland Watchman]

Actually, I personally agree with Prophetic's view, and I could also argue it based on Scripture, just as all of you can argue your pre-trib views. And there is a lot in Scripture that contradicts the Rapturist viewpoint, just as there is probably a bunch that may support it... although I have knocked myself silly trying to find a passage that explicitly separates the Return of Christ from the Rapture, in the BIBLE...

The pre-trib idea is relatively new anyway... thought up in the 1800's and made popular by such "experts" as Hal Lindsey, Grant Jeffreys, Jack van Impe, and others, not to mention the FICTIONAL accounts of the Left Behind series. I'm not trying to bash the ministries of other brothers in Christ, although I disagree with their definition of prophecy (namely, their definition equates prophecy with foretelling and eschatology, which excludes a vast majority of the prophecy of the Old Testament, as well as much of what Jesus spoke)...

Watch yourselves that you do not call those who do not interpret the events of the end times the same as you do as apostate scoffers and mockers, because there is much that can be learned from the divergent viewpoints. Remember: there were divergent views about who the Messiah would be when Jesus came the first time, and NONE of them turned out to be precisely correct. He did not come as a mighty warrior to kick the Romans out... He was not like the head Pharisee who turned all of Judah to the Law. He did not kick the Pharisees and Sadduccees out so that the Essenes, the "true priesthood" may inherit the temple and minister under him... Instead, he came as a commoner, born in obscurity and rife poverty, then travels as an itinerant teacher and miracle worker, who bends the rules and challenges the status quo... and associates with the sinners?! Doesn't sound like the idea Messiah according to the popular or mighty theologians to me.

My point here is simply this: Is it in our place to set the dates and stubbornly attack anyone who holds a view other than the popular, North American viewpoint? Or is it to live our days as wise stewards, trusting that Jesus could return at any day, declaring a victory over sin and death, renewing Creation and bringing an end to evil and suffering, but also trusting that it may not be in our lifetimes as well? My blessed hope is in that renewal of the original created order from before the Fall, in the Return of Christ in his glory, where he may reign upon the throne forever and ever, and where the Kingdom of God may be actualized on Earth, as it is in Heaven. That is what I long for.

 

[Prophetic]

Hi

Thanks for that Highland watchmen. It's not just that you agree with me, for I am quite prepared to go in a rapture if that happens.

It's a sad thing indeed that Christians have so many viewpoints about everything written in scripture. How is the non believer to ever find the RIGHT church.

It's funny that the Penticostals laught at the Baptists saying they have no power, but they themsleves push the properity doctrine.

It's funny how the Baptists say that the Penticostals are just into emotionalism and yet many deny the Jesus talks to his sheep today.

And funny how everyone says that the Catholics are the great mother harlot and are completely lost!!

Every single church and denomination I have been in seems to think they are right and yet when we get down to it, there is only ONE TRUTH!!

I hope that people who spend there time here wrting things to the saved are also out there speaking life into the unsaved every day.

And to put your minds at rest that piece I posted was written by a friend of mine and I thought I might post it here to see what people have to say about it.

I love the brotherhood, but I wish there was unity and ONE TRUTH in the body. Perhaps we all have to wait until the TRUTH is reigning on earth HIMSELF.

God bless.

Every one in my family and all their friends believe in the rapture. I am just the guy who thinks that the world needs to wake up first before Jesus comes for his bride and especially the church who are all so holy on Sunday but most of the time looking at there watches while they are there.

Go bless you guys!!

I am happy to be wrong!!

 

[Imagsusman]

I dont see anything funny...Proverbs 13:10

 

[murjahel]

The truth should be our goal in studying the Scripture... The topic should not have been one for this board... and the initiator of the post started out calling the pre-trib believers to be 'liars' ....

That is not a good way to start a discussion... If he had some ideas and some backing in Scripture, we should see it, and discuss in the proper forum... but to just try to paint some as 'liars' without Scriptural proof is wrong....

Now, he is the offended and hurt, because not all agree with his method, his lack of Scripture to back it up....

I posted my understanding and many, many passages to back it up.... They were my own writings, not anothers... He posted another's, and had not fully studied them, to see if they had Scriptural support.... He should back off, and study the original writings he made... see if the Bible supports them, and then study the answers he received...

That may take some work.... and if he is too busy for that, then wait till he has time... cut out some of the mundane to gain time... or decide if it is important enough for him to be 'studied' in the Word...

 

[murjahel]

Jesus is returning soon, and His return will ‘save us from the wrath to come’. The tribulation will come between the first part of His coming, and the second. The rapture of believers will remove us before the wrath of God comes.

So, when some wonder why we get all excited about the rapture, and say ‘why study it?’, or ‘why live like it will be soon?’, we have an answer, just as did the Thessalonians. Some want to say prophecy is too speculative or confusing, but to ignore, or be apathetic to the subject... results in ignorance.

God promised judgment on Sodom and Gomorrah, and gave warning. Warning also was given for the flood of Noah. There were scoffers then. The great tribulation will result in more deaths than any other time has ever seen. The wars, famine, pestilence, and other judgments will devastate this earth. God is giving warnings, and signs to motivate us to be ready, and avoid the wrath of God by being raptured.

TWO STAGES OF HIS COMING



There are two stages of the second coming. One we call the ‘rapture’. The second, we generally call the ‘second coming’. In reality they are both parts of one coming. The rapture is the secretive (from the world) coming, in which Jesus snatches away the saints of God, to secure them from the harm and wrath about to be poured out on the earth. The second part is the return of Jesus, with those previously raptured or resurrected. At that second part, we come to rule and reign with Jesus.



The rapture is before the tribulation, and the latter part of the second coming is at the end of the tribulation. Just as Jesus’ first coming extended over 33 years, His second will extend over 7 years.



THE WRATH TO COME...



Why is there a rapture before the tribulation? Verse 10 of this first chapter, tells us that it is the ‘wrath of God’ from which He wants to save us. There are types of such desire shown in the Bible. The rapture of Enoch, before the flood of Noah’s day, is one of those types. The taking of Lot and his family from Sodom, before the destruction came, is another.



The ‘wrath to come’ is the tribulation. God wants us to escape the tribulation. The greatness of this escape to come, put joy in the hearts of the Thessalonicans. The tribulation of the world against them was bad enough, but to know that when God’s wrath would be poured out, they would be escaped from such, was a happiness to them. This expectancy, and hope, helped them live an exemplary life.



Jesus had foretold of an escape from wrath...

Luke 21:36

"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.



This ‘escape’ is the rapture. The wrath is the tribulation.



II Thessalonians 2:1

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him."



II Thessalonians 2:7-8

"he (the church) that letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way, and then shall that wicked one be revealed."



I Thessalonians 5:9

"For God hath not appointed us to wrath..."



Revelation 3:10

"Keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall be upon all the world, to try them that dwell on the earth."



THREE VIEWS OF THE RAPTURE


PRE-TRIB

​

The pre-trib view is that the rapture will occur before the start of the tribulation. This view sees the time in heaven for the saints, wherein the judgment seat of Christ, the rewards, the expelling of the devil (Rev. 12) is made final, and the marriage supper of the Lamb with its opening of the New Jerusalem. The time spent in heaven is seven years, with this view.



MID-TRIB



The mid-trib view is that midway through the tribulation, the saints are brought home to heaven. This view has the saints in heaven for three and a half years before the second coming. The saints though have to endure the first half of the wrath of God. It is the milder half, but still it sees the wrath of God upon the saints. The pre-trib believers also believe in a mid-trib rapture, but they see it as the 144,000 that are raptured after their ministry is finished. Mid-trib’s view is resultant of a misunderstanding of several Scriptures.



POST TRIB

​

The post-trib view is that Jesus returns in one event, and takes the saints to the clouds, and returns with them instantly. This view has us never going to ‘heaven’, leaves no time for the judgment seat of Christ with its rewards, and has no answer for when the opening of the New Jerusalem, and the marriage supper of the Lamb is. The saints have to endure all of God’s wrath, except the battle of Armageddon, and the only reason they are not harmed by that, is due to the glorified bodies they will then have. Yet, that in no way fits the description of ‘harpadzo’, being ‘caught out of harm’s way’... for they are really ‘unharmed in the midst of harm’s way’ (which is not befitting the word harpadzo).



THREE GREEK WORDS, USED TO DESCRIBE THE RAPTURE, THAT INDICATE A PRE-TRIB RAPTURE...

1. HARPADZO

This word means to be caught away, by force, out of harm’s way...



2. EK PHUGEIN

This word means to escape clean away from a dreaded person or thing.



3. APOLUTROSIS

This word means to take unto oneself a valued object to protect it from harm.
​

 

[L0U]

Actually, I personally agree with Prophetic's view, and I could also argue it based on Scripture...

Highland,
You are certainly not the only one who would be in agreement with Prophetic's view.

Irenaeus was a disciple of Polycarp at the Church of Smyrna who along with Ignatius was a disciple of John the apostle. Irenaeus lived from 115-202 AD.
He wrote extensively against the heresies that were then attacking "faith which was once delivered unto the saints."
He wrote:

"In a still clearer light has John, in the Apocalypse, indicated to the Lord’s disciples what shall happen in the last times, and concerning the ten kings who shall then arise, among whom the empire which now rules [the earth] shall be partitioned. ... And they shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the Church to flight. After that they shall be destroyed by the coming of our Lord." [Against Heresies, Book V, XXVI]
​

As far as 'apostasia' meaning the rapture, I offer the following by the same student:

"This he does, in order that they who do [now] worship the devil by means of many abominations, may serve himself by this one idol, of whom the apostle thus speaks in the second Epistle to the Thessalonians: “Unless there shall come a failing away first, and the man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself as if he were God.” The apostle therefore clearly points out his apostasy, and that he is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped — that is, above every idol — for these are indeed so called by men, but are not [really] gods; and that he will endeavor in a tyrannical manner to set himself forth as God. 2. Moreover, he (the apostle) has also pointed out this which I have shown in many ways, that the temple in Jerusalem was made by the direction of the true God. For the apostle himself, speaking in his own person, distinctly called it the temple of God. Now I have shown in the third book, that no one is termed God by the apostles when speaking for themselves, except Him who truly is God, the Father of our Lord, by whose directions the temple which is at Jerusalem was constructed for those purposes which I have already mentioned; in which [temple] the enemy shall sit, endeavoring to show himself as Christ, as the Lord also declares: “But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, which has been spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand), then let those who are in Judea flee into the mountains; and he who is upon the house-top, let him not come down to take anything out of his house: for there shall then be great hardship, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall be.”" [Against Heresies, Book V, XXV,1&2]
​

This 'idea' that 'apostasia' means rapture was begun in 1954 by Edward English.
That the noun 'apostasia' has as its distantly related verb 'ephistemi' is no emphesis. Paul used the word 'apostasia'.

 

[Highland Watchman]

Yes... I have heard this synopsis before. But it tends to ignore other eschatalogical views that have been common in the church from the very beginning. For instance, the early church fathers, as well as the Reformers who followed after Luthur and Calvin believed in an Amillennial viewpoint, which is not included in your "summary" of the views. But this is just a side note.

It is a pleasure to see the Greek that you have added at the bottom, yet you fail to point out where exactly these words appear in the text... And I can not see how these words do not support my view (which is more toward the post-trib). You just assume that it refers to a pre-trib rapture without providing why it can't be post or mid-trib. (In philosophy that's called "subjectivism"--meaning you say something is true because you want it to be). I, on the other hand, actually have evidence to support a post-trib rapture, but what do you have?

Also, you seem to be doing the exact same thing that you accused our brother, Prophetic, of doing... namely quoting a bunch of random verses from here and there, without having any understanding of their meaning or context.

For one, your two passages from 2 Thessalonians are part of the same argument. Why separate them? Why not include verses 2-6 in your statement, which doesn't indicate to me in any way how the rapture is a separate event from the coming of Christ. And if you truly knew your Greek syntax, instead of just throwing one or two words out there, you would know that the kai (a conjunction in 2:1) joins the parousia ("Coming of Jesus") with the us being gathered to him. The term rapture is word dervived from Latin meaning "to seize." There is no doubt that we are going to be gathered to him, but the conjunction connects those two events so closely that it's not possible to add a 7yr tribulation period in between. (Note: read FF Bruce and Leon Morris on the issue. There is no point in resorting to uneducated laymen who are looking for an early escape simply because they lack the faith to endure hardship).

The passage in 1 Thessalonians is a curious one, because it does describe Jesus appearing in the sky, and everyone going up to meet him in the air, which is the original passage that Schofield and Darby used to come up with their pretribulation rapture idea. Yet, there is much in the passage around this verse that also speaks to me. For instance, it says that the day of the LORD will come like a thief in the night, bringing sudden destruction in the midst of people saying, "peace, peace", which reminds me a lot of the Old Testament prophets as they would describe the day of the LORD. And as I interpret the Day of the LORD, it is the end of all things as we know it, and the judgment. And the "we are not appointed to wrath" is mentioned with the context that we must remain awake and soberminded, in the armour of God, and that our destiny is salvation through Jesus Christ. It looks more to me that the judgment on the faithful is salvation, and wrath and condemnation for the world, who scoff and mock at the followers of Christ.
But before this passage, we find the famous "rapture" passage (v. 13-18), where it is described as the LORD returning with the voice like an archangel and great trumpet (doesn't sound very quiet to me) and taking those who are still alive in HIM to be with him... but it includes a statement in there that puzzles me, especially if there are those who come to believe after the others are gone, and are martyred... would that not make them dead in Christ and among "those who are asleep"? So then, if those who are still alive will not preceed those who are asleep (meaning those who have died), then how can there be such a removal before everyone who is meant to die for the gospel will die?

And in the Revelation passage, do remember that there is still one more church to come in his letters after the church of Philadelphia (Laodicea), and there is more present even in looking through the context of this one letter as well. The church in Philadelphia, according to the text alone, is a church that has been loyal to the name and witness of Christ, even though they are of very little power, very little wealth, and have come under persecution it seems from those "in the synagogue of Satan", whom Jesus will make to come bow at their feet. And it is because of their obedience and endurance against the persecution that they will be spared. Yet, sparing does not necessarily mean being taken out of the circumstances, necessarily. Notice that this is one of only two churches that he lists which Jesus does not have anything negative to say to them, while the luke-warm, self-sufficient, materialistic church of Laodicea (and I would argue, much of the church of North America of today), Jesus has nothing positive to say, and even goes so far as to tell them that he will spew them from his mouth because of his disgust. If you are going to pull the pre-tribulation rapture idea from these texts, then you will have to realize that it only appears here, to one of the churches (not to the entire church), and that the church that it was written to is one that is faithful to the witness of Christ.

You are right, there are types in the Bible. For instance...

- The slavery in Egypt, which God reacted through judging Pharaoh and the house of Egypt. Even though God saved the children of Israel from the plagues, it was in the midst of Egypt that God kept the Hebrews while he was bringing salvation upon them.

- God's continual judgment and pardon through the time when the Hebrews wandered the desert, and when they settled in the land. God could have wiped out the people of the land himself, then magically transfered the Israelites into the land, and all of the problems of their history would be non-existant. And he would not have brought judgment on Israel either, because they are his chosen people, right?

- The exile in Babylon, God chose to work through keeping the remnant during this time. And his promise to Jeremiah was that he would not be destroyed like the pride of the city officials. What he raptured or rescued out of Israel? No, because he had a job to do. And then, when the city was levelled by Nebuchadrezzar, Jeremiah survived and was released from chains. And his message to the exiles? Stay where you are at for 70 years and be a blessing to those where you are at.

- The quest for a Saviour and Messiah... Jesus could have come as the people expected him to come: as a mighty, conquering king and a high priest who would bring the glory back to Jerusalem and its temple, kicking the Romans out of the land and reinstuting the Jewish state monarchy. And he could have made his followers great kings, and took them up to heaven with him. But he didn't. There were also many times of great trials throughout the history of the world, but did any disembodying rapture occur then? Not that I am aware of.

This ‘escape’ is the rapture. The wrath is the tribulation.

I disagree. The 'escape' is our redemption and the reconciliation of our relationships with God, just as the Blessed Hope is the immanent and bodily return of Christ in glory, and the redemption of all of Creation, with the resurrection of those who have been declared righteous by God, where the promises that God has made from the very beginning are finally fully realized and fulfilled. Remember, Scripture was given to us by Jewish men, and even Jesus himself was a Jew. The disembodied ethereal fluff that a lot of us believe nowadays is Platonic, Greek philosophy... not Jewish Scripture. But that's another issue.

I don't see the 'wrath' as a 7 year tribulation period, but rather the consequences of sin and the Fall. What I do agree with in the premillennial viewpoint is that the condition will worsen, and things will become much worse before the actual return of Christ. Whether it is a literal 7 year period or not, I don't know. But the way I see it, humanity is already under the wrath of God. And in the judgment, while those of us who have declared Jesus as LORD and have followed after him will be delivered from wrath, because of what happened at the Cross. Those who reject this will in essence reject God, and God's wrath will be poured upon them even more, and they will be cast into the lake of burning fire, where there will be great agony and gnashing of teeth...

 

[murjahel]

WORDS DESCRIBING THE LORD’S COMING
​

Marantha​

I Corinthians 16:22

If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema, Maranatha."



The word ‘anathema’ means ‘declared to be banned, or excommunicated" and the word "maranatha" means "The Lord cometh"

Maranatha was a common greeting among Christians of the early church. It was common to say "maranatha’ as a hello or good bye type greeting. "Maran" means "Our Lord’ and "atha" means "shall come".

This would be a welcome revival to have Christians so excited about Jesus’ coming, that they met and parted with this word again.. Some of Christianity fear ‘being so heavenly minded, that they are of no earthly good." But in reality, I have never met any such person. But I have met thousands who ‘are so earthly minded, that they are of no heavenly good."


Jesus told His disciples to ‘comfort’ each other with the words of His return. And this word, maranatha, is one way in which they did... No matter what the conversation was, to begin and end it with a reminder that ‘The Lord is coming" (maranatha) would bring a smile to the face of any true child of God.

Parousia



This word means, arrival, presence, coming. The idea is a ‘becoming present". It is somewhat like the English word, ‘Visit’. The Greek idea was connected with the visit of an emperor or some distinguished person. It is used of other persons besides Christ Jesus, as of Stephanas in I Corinthians 16:17. Paul urges the Philippians to act obediently during his absence (apousia) as during his presence (parousia) (Phil. 2:12). It comes from two Greek words ‘para’ meaning ‘with’, and ‘ousia’ meaning ‘being’



It is used often of Christ.

I Corinthians 15:23

"But every man in his own order, Christ the firstfruits, afterward, they that are Christ’s at His coming."



I Thessalonians 2:19

"For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, at His coming." (See also I Thess. 3:13, 4:15, 5:23, II Thess. 2:1, 2:8)



James 5:8

"For the coming of the Lord draweth nigh."



I John 2:28

"And now little children, abide in Him, that, when He shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before Him at His coming."



(See also II Peter 1:16)



This word ‘parousia’ is used in the Bible to refer to when Jesus comes at the rapture to His saints, and also at the second coming time, when He remains present in this world.

Apokalupsis



This word means ‘unveiling, revelation, appearing, coming"



I Peter 1:13

"Wherefore, gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ."



I Corinthians 1:7

"So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our

Lord Jesus Christ."



Revelation 1:1

"The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show to His servants things that must shortly come to pass."



(See also I Peter 1:7)

Optomai



This word means ‘appear, to be physicaly seen with the eye..."



Hebrews 9:28

"Unto them that look for Him, shall He appear the second time."



In Hebrews 9 there is an interesting word study. In verse 24, it shows the Lord appearing (emphanizo) for an advocate. This word means that He appears to make known, to inform. In verse 26, He appears (phaneroo) wich means appearing to reveal His true nature, to overcome for sins. And then in verse 28, it speaks of a third kind of appearing, this one is optomai, and it is a physical, with the eye seen, type of appearing, wherein to the saints at the rapture, Jesus appears physically.

Erchomai



This word stresses an arrival.



John 14:3

If I go away, and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself."



Acts 1:11

"This same Jesus, Who is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner, as ye have seen Him go into heaven."



II Thessalonians 1:10

"When He shall come to be glorified in His saints, and to be admired in all them that believe..."



Jude 14

"And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints."



Revelation 1:7

"Behold He cometh with clouds."

Epiphaino

This word means ‘appear,’ "an manifestation," "a shining forth, as an enemy to the army in the field" and is used six times in the New Testament, always by Paul. We get the word ‘epiphany’ from this Greek word.



I Timothy 6:14

"That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ."



A shining appearance, shining forth, as headlights break the darkness, and indicate the arrival of a car.



It is used of Jesus’ first coming...

II Timothy 1:10

"but is now made manifest by the appearing of our Savior, Jesus Christ, Who hath abolished death and hat brought life and immortality to light through the gospel."



It is used of the rapture of the church.

Titus 2:12-14

"Looking for the blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the Great God, and our Savior Jesus Christ."



It is used of Jesus’ second coming.

II Thessalonians 2:8

"And then shall that wicked one be revealed whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming (parousia)."



The writer of Hebrews spoke of Jesus’ appearing to make atonement and then appearing before God as an Advocate for us.



II Timothy 4:1

Who shall judge the quick and the dead at His appearing amd His kingdom."



II Timothy 4:8

"Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness which the Lord, the righteous judge shall give me at that day and not to me only but unto all them that love His appearing."



The idea is that to some the appearing is frightful, and to some it is loved, and is a comfort. It is a shame how many so-called saints, are fearful of the coming and appearing of Jesus.

Harpadzo



This word means ‘to be caught away by force out of harm’s way."

It is used to refer to the rapture only.

I Thessalonians 4:17

"Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Ekphugein



This word means ‘to escape clean away from a dreaded person, place, or thing." It too is used to refer to the rapture only. It is used to refer to some who will not be raptured to escape.



I Thessalonians 5:3

"When they shall say peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh uponthem, as travail upon a woman with child, and they shall not escape."



Hebrews 2:3

"How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation?"

Luke 21:36

"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."



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The Bible tells us to "comfort one another with these words..." (I Thess. 4:18) We should comfort the bereaved with words of the coming of Jesus. We should comfort the poor with words of Jesus’ coming. We should comfort the sick and dying with words about the return of the Lord. and we should comfort the troubled and persecuted with the words of hope.....



The return of Jesus should give hope to all saints. If you are not encouraged with these words of the hope of His coming, then there is something wrong spiritually with your beliefs, or your spiritual condition. Examine yourself, get things right with God... until words of the rapture and second coming give you comfort, as they should.