The practice of healing and working of miracles

[Guojing]

No,.... you are the one who added to my subject. My reply and subject to Sunover was about the power of GOD and The Holy Spirit resting upon you.

Maybe you shouldn't try to pin someone in a corner all the time with their words and actually pay attention to what people are saying. It would help you greatly.

No one is trying to pin you into a corner.

At times, you appear to be saying that healing is linked to the power of God, that healing is different from other gifts, its a power gift. Then you link that power to trust from God, and implied that we have to earn that trust.

So I am trying to be clear exactly how you link all these different terms together.

I was just trying to understand clearly what your doctrine is, as I did with you earlier your doctrine regarding salvation and healing.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Maybe, but in making that point you may have used an example that doesn't fit the narrative. No one knows if Paul's thorn in the flesh was a sickness or not. I doubt it was, for what does the text say?

I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 2 Corinthians 12:7 (BSB)

A messenger of Satan...

My understanding is it wasn't some sickness, but rather a demon who was tormenting Paul about his past. Not that Paul had a demon, don't misunderstand me, but it was a demonic messenger that was using Paul's past to try and bring him down. And oddly enough, what Satan meant for harm, Jesus used for good. The message weakened Paul to the point where he learned to say through the Holy Spirit, "When I am weak, then I am strong."

So you can't possibly use that to say that in this context, because it doesn't fit.

Not so - what ever it was it is covered in the atonement.

 

[ARBITER01]

I knew someone once years ago on here that was well known for doing that. I guess they are no longer around though. Made for rather difficult conversation

There's been a few on here that used to do that. I guess they wanted to be like modern Pharisees and Saducees or something.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Both can be true. It can be God's power that heals, but a power that He invests in us to use appropriately. Think the parable of the talents. Jesus gave those people talents, yes they were His to begin with and He came back to receive them, but He gave them away. Can it not be true that we can ask God to stretch forth His hand to heal, and at the same time understand that He has given us that power to do so?

Jesus would many times retreat to pray and seek the face of the Father after performing miracles and acts. The scriptures never specifically state why He did so, but we can safely assume from passages like John 5 and John 14 that Jesus acted thus because He knew His power came from the Father.

It's kind of the reason I started this OP which has turned from how should we utilize the power of God to can we utilize the power of God. Now I'm ok with letting the discussion go whatever way it goes as long as it stays somewhat on course, but my original thought remains. How can we see the power of God more frequently?

To me, the answer is through prayer, fasting, and seeking God's face.

Yes good conclusion - but you miss my point.

The early church didn't assume their gifts were sufficient in themselves like many are taught today.

They could have prayed "as WE extend our hands to heal'

But they didnt.

His work is never man centred.

Our faith is in what He is capable of not limited to any gift we may or may not have.

So yes - prayer, fasting and seeking His face and this will likely take years rather than months.

 

[Guojing]

but my original thought remains. How can we see the power of God more frequently?

To me, the answer is through prayer, fasting, and seeking God's face.

Aren't all these "prayer, fasting, and seeking God's face." example of works that we do?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Aren't all these "prayer, fasting, and seeking God's face." example of works that we do?

No

No one can say Jesus is Lord unless it is by the Spirit...

What ever is in Spirit and Truth is not a 'work'...

 

[Aaron112]

Explain to me how you feel the two are similar

Could Lazarus do anything to raise himself from the grave ?
Could Paul do anything to deliver himself from the thorn ?

Who could do both - free Lazarus, and free Paul ?
Whose Choice was it? < Yahweh's/ God's>
Whose Power is it? < Yahweh's/God's>
Some examples from the last half hour or hour ... recent posts in this thread >>>

2 Corinthians 12:8-9 KJV
8. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

9. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

That's a powerful demonstration of His Glory!
At church once I was prayed over for a lump it was gone bam
Another time I sought the Lord for healing of a debilitating injury.

2 years later as I was worshiping Him BAM I was healed.
Bam bam bam lol
Thank you Jesus!!

Our faith is in what He is capable of not limited to any gift we may or may not have.

Aren't all these "prayer, fasting, and seeking God's face." example of works that we do?

.... "works we do?" ....
Whose Choice is it? <Yahweh's/God's>
Whose Power is it? <Yahweh's/God's>

Who serves who? Yahweh is served by us, not He is subject to us.

 

[sunlover1]

There's been a few on here that used to do that. I guess they wanted to be like modern Pharisees and Saducees or something.

I think i was one of them.
Maybe not, but I remember arguing with a female Catholic umm can't recall her nickname, about birth control! lol smh

 

[Carl Emerson]

Does that include laying hands to heal another person?

Who is doing the healing ?

 

[ARBITER01]

His work is never man centred.

Our faith is in what He is capable of not limited to any gift we may or may not have.

Sometimes Carl you can be right on the money, but then you'll turn around and lose the farm in the next moment.

First,.....GOD is not going to do anything down here apart from mankind before the apocalypse. He will always use a man or woman to demonstrate His power and ability. That is the only way that He witnesses Himself before unbelievers. The example that He established through Jesus is our perfect example.

Second,.......Since the advent of Acts 2 and Cornelius's household, GOD is not going to do anything apart from using those gifts in us. It is why they are so important. The whole aspect of Jesus receiving His anointing was so that The Holy Spirit would operate the greater gifts through Jesus, and again, for our perfect example to attain to.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Sometimes Carl you can be right on the money, but then you'll turn around and lose the farm in the next moment.

First,.....GOD is not going to do anything down here apart from mankind before the apocalypse. He will always use a man or woman to demonstrate His power and ability. That is the only way that He witnesses Himself before unbelievers. The example that He established through Jesus is our perfect example.

Second,.......Since the advent of Acts 2 and Cornelius's household, GOD is not going to do anything apart from using those gifts in us. It is why they are so important. The whole aspect of Jesus receiving His anointing was so that The Holy Spirit would operate the greater gifts through Jesus, and again, for our perfect example to attain to.

Scriptural support for these two assertions please.

Genuine healing can occur when there is no one around and no 'gift' being exercised.

 

[ARBITER01]

Scriptural support for these two assertions please.

Genuine healing can occur when there is no one around and no 'gift' being exercised.

I only need to give one scripture resource to you Carl,....

Joh 14:12 Truly, truly, I say unto thee the-one believing into Me, the works which I am doing, shall that one be doing also, and greater works than these shall he be doing, because I am going unto My Father.

The bare minimum standard according to Jesus is His works. If we are not trying to do the things that Jesus did, then we are trying to do our own sort of thing in our own strength.

Apart from going to the cross, He is our perfect example to emulate and follow down here. If anyone is truly a believer in Jesus and one of HIs followers, then that persons life should emulate Him. I didn't say it, Jesus did.

 

[tturt]

What are the Scriptures that shows "clearly there are many more false teachers, false prophets, than true teachers and true prophets?"

 

[Guojing]

I only need to give one scripture resource to you Carl,....

Joh 14:12 Truly, truly, I say unto thee the-one believing into Me, the works which I am doing, shall that one be doing also, and greater works than these shall he be doing, because I am going unto My Father.

The bare minimum standard according to Jesus is His works. If we are not trying to do the things that Jesus did, then we are trying to do our own sort of thing in our own strength.

Apart from going to the cross, He is our perfect example to emulate and follow down here. If anyone is truly a believer in Jesus and one of HIs followers, then that persons life should emulate Him. I didn't say it, Jesus did.

Do you worship at Bethel church? This is Bill Johnson's teaching.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I only need to give one scripture resource to you Carl,....

Joh 14:12 Truly, truly, I say unto thee the-one believing into Me, the works which I am doing, shall that one be doing also, and greater works than these shall he be doing, because I am going unto My Father.

The bare minimum standard according to Jesus is His works. If we are not trying to do the things that Jesus did, then we are trying to do our own sort of thing in our own strength.

Apart from going to the cross, He is our perfect example to emulate and follow down here. If anyone is truly a believer in Jesus and one of HIs followers, then that persons life should emulate Him. I didn't say it, Jesus did.

Your answer does not seem to relate to my question...

 

[ARBITER01]

Your answer does not seem to relate to my question...

You're ability to comprehend it would be the problem I assume.

 

[ARBITER01]

Do you worship at Bethel church? This is Bill Johnson's teaching.

Is that meant to be offensive?

 

[Guojing]

Is that meant to be offensive?

Nothing wrong at all with Bethel, why do you keep reading offence when there is none?

 

[Guojing]

No

No one can say Jesus is Lord unless it is by the Spirit...

What ever is in Spirit and Truth is not a 'work'...

How does one fast "in spirit and truth"?

 

[Aaron112]

moved