The Power to Overcome - The Peril of Turning Back

Brad D.

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Sorry for the derail. I think that's the case against works
My OPs can never be derailed. They go where the Spirit leads if there are any replies and that is exactly where they need to go. There is nothing we do in the Spirit that is waste. There is no greater work we can do than that. Man has just so skewed what the works of God truly are, we often miss the most important thing we can be doing. Where He is, He says, There His servant will also be. How else will we serve Him if we are not where He truly is? If that leads into silence, and we are building an orphanage are we serving Him any better?
 
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The path of silence I can equate to the silence of the temple being built in silence while the quarry of the world is where all the chips off the old block are chiselled away. One is the humanity and the other is fitting into the spiritual body. One must persevere from one to the next without turning back from the Giants facing each group. One is corporate like the nation of Israel was and the other each son and daughter of our heavenly Father. Christ as our good land can only be when we go on with Him into the place that He is for each. The difference is the place of placing the stone imo. It's either still in the quarry of the world or the temple of the kingdom. If it's still in the world then that's a falling back like Hebrews 6 while to go on with our High Priest is to learn what the spiritual body needs to learn in this life. Not an easy task. Just trying to wrap my mind around this. These are things going on with my thoughts also lately.
 
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Brad D.

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Christ as our good land can only be when we go on with Him into the place that He is for each. The difference is the place of placing the stone imo.

And they are living stones, able to be moved around as He sees fit, depending on the season in our lives. He is the expert mason, knowing where each should fit for their appointed time. We are in such capable hands. It should give us great rest. And there is not one stone that does not serve Him and therefore serves the body. They each have their appointed work, place and time. It is for Him to decide. He always knows what is best.
 
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GDL

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You shall cling to the Lord your God as you have done this day. For the Lord has driven out before you great and strong nations. And as for you, no man has been able to stand against you. One man of you puts to flight a thousand, since it is the Lord your God who fights for you, just as He promised you. Be very careful, therefore, to love the Lord your God. For if you turn back and cling to the remnant of these nations....Know for certain the Lord your God will no longer drive out these nations before you, but they shall be a snare and a trap for you, a whip on your sides and thorns in your eyes, until you perish from this good ground that the Lord your God has given you. (Joshua 23:8-13)

The above verses are the explanation of many of our failures as Christians. The land has been given. The power has been given to take it, but somewhere along the line we have turned back, come up short, and failed to go in.

I once knew a Christian who would say of their failure to overcome certain sins, " God is good, but I am weak." I would say to them, "Are you so weak then that God has met His match?"

The Lord never leaves us without a test. The Canaanites were no joke. They were a prosperous, cultured people for their day. And they also had Chariots of Iron that the Israelites feared (Joshua 17:16-18). They also had things that the Israelites must have lusted after, been enticed by, and dragged away. One commentary says this about them: What was it about the Canaanite religion and culture that proved to be such irresistible attraction? The land of Canaan was awe inspiring to the Israelites, as can be seen in the story of the spies who reported its wealth and strength (Numbers 13) To a recently freed slave people, accustomed to the hardships of life in the wilderness, the cosmopolitanism and material wealth of Late-Bronze-Age Canaan, could not have failed to impress {End Quote}.

The end result of all of this was the Israelites for all their initial success went no further. The way became too difficult for them, the foe too formidable, and the ease of just mixing in and enjoying some of the fruits of Canaan too tempting. And so this was the beginning of the end for them. By the end of Judges the whole thing has fallen apart. It is a picture of utter defeat, chaos and impotence. The snare of the above versus had sprung. The Thorns had become gaping wounds, and the whip on their sides had beaten them down. They had become a trapped beaten people, wondering where it all went, and why it did so.

This path is repeated again and again amongst His people, and it is repeated over and over until this very day. It is therefore worth repeating the steps again. (1) A directive by God is given us. (2) We see it is going to take utter obedience to God to the nth degree to carry it out. (3) We are then perplexed and amazed when the battle ensues and the difficulty begins. We are simultaneously bewildered by our foe and entranced by its enticements (4) We then begin to doubt and question God's ability to do it, our strength to carry it out, and if God is with us after all. (5) We wonder things like why He doesn't just perform miracles, snap His fingers and make the whole thing go away and make it easy for us? (6) The tests God gives us then begins to baffle us. The way becomes too narrow. The Difficulty too strong. And the Path to Long. (7) And finally it just becomes easier for us to pat ourselves on the back. Enjoy the distance we have come. Say, "Oh well we tried. We did our part after all but....." Stay put. Stay where we are. Begin mixing in, Enjoying some of the fruits and experiences of Canaan around us. And then convince ourselves, "Hey we are probably in the right place anyway." Or (8) Become so convinced that we are so weak, and our situation is so unique, that it leads to our utter despair, our belief God is for everyone except us, and our utter break down to believe Him for our life at all.

What is the answer then? What should we do when the Iron Chariots Come, and the riches of Canaan entice? What should we do when it just seems easier to give in and give up?

The answer is so simple it is infuriating to one who believes he has "tried." The answer is to take God at His word, burn all your bridges back to Canaan as a means of escape, Pick up your cross and go on. I once heavily smoked and had many other addictions when I came to the Lord. My life was an absolute mess. With some of these I tried and failed early on just like many other Christians. I prayed furiously and asked for prayer even more furiously to no avail. The secret to overcoming my failures I learned was this. When you finally mean business with the Lord, the Lord will mean business with you.

One day I saw it all and and saw what I needed to do. I knew the Lord was not going to just flash bang every problem away. He was going to make me go out onto the plains and face the iron chariots. My honor and integrity depended upon Him. With One, He would defeat a thousand, as the verse says. But it was going to take the one who was willing to go out and stand against the thousand. The cigarettes and all the other addictions, fornication, booze, gambling etc. had to be put down. No half empty pack stored away somewhere, "Just in case". No, the utter and absolute decision was going to have to be made. The ships were going to have to be burned leaving no escape from the island I had left myself on. The whole thing was going to have to be put in God's hands, leaving myself no plan B.

When I put these things on the altar for good and He saw I meant it fire did come down and take that offering. It wasn't the fire of Elijah, but it was the miraculous fire of faith working in obedience. It wasn't easy. Chariots of Iron never are. But it was miraculous. Day by day the grace was given me to get though, until one day I came out of the forest on the other side into a great field of light, the sound of trumpets, and the shout of victory. The Lord had prevailed. The Iron Chariots had been defeated. One had stood against a thousand and prevailed in His Lord. The riches of Canaan and all its power were no more.

But if this message just stopped there it would stop well short of where it needs to land. As wonderful and miraculous as these embarrassing, heinous ,dirtier sins are to be delivered from, you learn the longer you walk with the Lord, they are just the tip of the ice-berg the depths the Lord intends and needs to go.

In a large part it is we His people, Christianity as a whole, that has stopped well short of where we needed to be. We have not gone in. We have not taken the land God so desired us to have. Christ is that land, and we are His people. The riches of Him await. The chariots of Canaan and the lust of the land thereof stand in our way. He is looking for a people in this day who's hearts burn within them. Who sees what He is really after. Who are willing to burn the ships of Canaan, step out onto the plains and face the thousand. Whatever it costs, whatever it takes to go onward for the Lord to prevail.

For those who do they will see the chariots fall, the land taken, and the light of Christ in a brand new day. For those who stay put they will see further decline, disintegration, chaos, the trap sprung, the thorns sharpened, cultures blended in until you can't tell them apart, the whips pulled out, His people beaten down. It is happening now. It has been happening for quite some time. So today if you hear His voice do not harden your hearts as you did in past rebellion. Step out into the light. Face the chariots. Go into battle with Christ. If you do. The victory will surely be yours.
I landed on this thread, skimmed what you wrote, thought it deserved to be read with a fresh mind so set it aside, and just read it. Nicely done.

When I read the posted Scripture, the key statement to me for us was "Be very careful, therefore, to love the Lord your God". As I read through your writing it was nice to see how you picked up on this when you said, "We see it is going to take utter obedience to God to the nth degree to carry it out." and "but it was the miraculous fire of faith working in obedience."

This is always what our tests are because tests of faith are ultimately tests of obedience. For genuine Faith the 2 words are inseparable.

I can see how you are speaking of stopping short of where we needed to be. Is this more personal and individual, or corporate, or both? IOW, where do we need to be?
 
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Brad D.

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This is always what our tests are because tests of faith are ultimately tests of obedience. For genuine Faith the 2 words are inseparable.

I can see how you are speaking of stopping short of where we needed to be. Is this more personal and individual, or corporate, or both? IOW, where do we need to be?

When I wrote this writing I had both the individual and the corporate body in mind. I felt there were implications for both. My answer may sound elusive, but I do not believe one can begin without the other.

I was like Moses for a time in my life. I had wisdom enough to see the problem, but lacked the maturity to see the solution. For that it was going to take being led by the Spirit into the backwaters of Midian for a time and die. Moses came up out of that place a different man.

The solution God gave to Moses was simple. If you see God's people enslaved by Egypt, go back in the Spirit, call forth to them, and lead them back the same way you just came. Moses had just lived 40 years individually that which He was about to lead His people into corporately.

This of course will never be done today as it was done in Moses's day. I certainly don't have any illusions of that. But for an individual here, a pocket of believers there, if a writing like this can stir one's passions for God, to ignite the fire of faith again working in obedience then this is my prayer.

I believe for those willing to lay hold of God like this, and truly mean business as the writing suggest, they will be led by the Spirit themselves in that which they must do. The journey will be different but the goal will be the same. He uses different means to reach His end, until Christ be formed in us.

So for an individual to come and say do this, this and this I believe will only cause us to struggle in the flesh, leaving destruction of those left in Egypt in the sand, as Moses so found. But for those so willing to pick up their cross and forsake all, God Himself will lead them into the wilderness and strip them of all the things of Egypt that must be left behind. I think then many will be surprised at the things which must go, and His church will be so much the better for it. If that were done on a massive scale that which you see today, might be no more.

Thank you so much for your reply. If you have anything further please feel free to respond. Blessings to you!
 
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GDL

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When I wrote this writing I had both the individual and the corporate body in mind. I felt there were implications for both. My answer may sound elusive, but I do not believe one can begin without the other.

I was like Moses for a time in my life. I had wisdom enough to see the problem, but lacked the maturity to see the solution. For that it was going to take being led by the Spirit into the backwaters of Midian for a time and die. Moses came up out of that place a different man.

The solution God gave to Moses was simple. If you see God's people enslaved by Egypt, go back in the Spirit, call forth to them, and lead them back the same way you just came. Moses had just lived 40 years individually that which He was about to lead His people into corporately.

This of course will never be done today as it was done in Moses's day. I certainly don't have any illusions of that. But for an individual here, a pocket of believers there, if a writing like this can stir one's passions for God, to ignite the fire of faith again working in obedience then this is my prayer.

I believe for those willing to lay hold of God like this, and truly mean business as the writing suggest, they will be led by the Spirit themselves in that which they must do. The journey will be different but the goal will be the same. He uses different means to reach His end, until Christ be formed in us.

So for an individual to come and say do this, this and this I believe will only cause us to struggle in the flesh, leaving destruction of those left in Egypt in the sand, as Moses so found. But for those so willing to pick up their cross and forsake all, God Himself will lead them into the wilderness and strip them of all the things of Egypt that must be left behind. I think then many will be surprised at the things which must go, and His church will be so much the better for it. If that were done on a massive scale that which you see today, might be no more.

Thank you so much for your reply. If you have anything further please feel free to respond. Blessings to you!
I don't read your answer as elusive. "until Christ is formed in us" is both individual and corporate. Ephesians 4:13... is a good corporate section IMO. I think these goals go way deeper than most of us even come to consider and I agree with you on the necessary stripping. The renewing of the mind is a process that takes us where most of us could not have imagined but take us He does.
 
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Brad D.

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I think these goals go way deeper than most of us even come to consider
Exactly! Christ always knows how to get to the heart of what is essential. Unfortunately Religion has built a system that often conveniently shields believers from that. It offers them many options of a way to serve God without all the hassle. When the cross is lifted up Christ comes back. One often has to leave the system to get to the heart of what He is really after. And that is why for many He calls them out and onward into the unknown. Everything is found out there. The Spirit knows how to build His church if we would but let Him. It has never been a formula. It has always been Christ.
 
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GDL

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One often has to leave the system to get to the heart of what He is really after
Agreed. It's odd how many different systems and theological camps there are and those in them thinking they are in the only right one. When I was teaching it always interested me how many, when they first learned I was, would tell me they knew they needed something deeper than they were getting, yet never ventured out to find it. Excuses, habits & traditions die hard... As your first post stated, there comes that point of comfortable acceptance that is stronger than the prompting of the need to keep seeking and venturing on in "A Way Unknown" (to paraphrase it).

BTW, I like that phrase under your name. Even a new arrival is at a place unknown which takes some time to understand while walking through it to the next place. The concept of walking with our infinite God astounds to the limited degree I can be astounded in this era of existence.
 
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The last thing in the world I wanted when I became a Christian was to be controversial. All I wanted was to be normal, whatever that was. I was tired of being different, and not well thought of, and I cringed at controversy.
I can relate to this
 
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You shall cling to the Lord your God as you have done this day. For the Lord has driven out before you great and strong nations. And as for you, no man has been able to stand against you. One man of you puts to flight a thousand, since it is the Lord your God who fights for you, just as He promised you. Be very careful, therefore, to love the Lord your God. For if you turn back and cling to the remnant of these nations....Know for certain the Lord your God will no longer drive out these nations before you, but they shall be a snare and a trap for you, a whip on your sides and thorns in your eyes, until you perish from this good ground that the Lord your God has given you. (Joshua 23:8-13)

The above verses are the explanation of many of our failures as Christians. The land has been given. The power has been given to take it, but somewhere along the line we have turned back, come up short, and failed to go in.

I once knew a Christian who would say of their failure to overcome certain sins, " God is good, but I am weak." I would say to them, "Are you so weak then that God has met His match?"

The Lord never leaves us without a test. The Canaanites were no joke. They were a prosperous, cultured people for their day. And they also had Chariots of Iron that the Israelites feared (Joshua 17:16-18). They also had things that the Israelites must have lusted after, been enticed by, and dragged away. One commentary says this about them: What was it about the Canaanite religion and culture that proved to be such irresistible attraction? The land of Canaan was awe inspiring to the Israelites, as can be seen in the story of the spies who reported its wealth and strength (Numbers 13) To a recently freed slave people, accustomed to the hardships of life in the wilderness, the cosmopolitanism and material wealth of Late-Bronze-Age Canaan, could not have failed to impress {End Quote}.

The end result of all of this was the Israelites for all their initial success went no further. The way became too difficult for them, the foe too formidable, and the ease of just mixing in and enjoying some of the fruits of Canaan too tempting. And so this was the beginning of the end for them. By the end of Judges the whole thing has fallen apart. It is a picture of utter defeat, chaos and impotence. The snare of the above versus had sprung. The Thorns had become gaping wounds, and the whip on their sides had beaten them down. They had become a trapped beaten people, wondering where it all went, and why it did so.

This path is repeated again and again amongst His people, and it is repeated over and over until this very day. It is therefore worth repeating the steps again. (1) A directive by God is given us. (2) We see it is going to take utter obedience to God to the nth degree to carry it out. (3) We are then perplexed and amazed when the battle ensues and the difficulty begins. We are simultaneously bewildered by our foe and entranced by its enticements (4) We then begin to doubt and question God's ability to do it, our strength to carry it out, and if God is with us after all. (5) We wonder things like why He doesn't just perform miracles, snap His fingers and make the whole thing go away and make it easy for us? (6) The tests God gives us then begins to baffle us. The way becomes too narrow. The Difficulty too strong. And the Path to Long. (7) And finally it just becomes easier for us to pat ourselves on the back. Enjoy the distance we have come. Say, "Oh well we tried. We did our part after all but....." Stay put. Stay where we are. Begin mixing in, Enjoying some of the fruits and experiences of Canaan around us. And then convince ourselves, "Hey we are probably in the right place anyway." Or (8) Become so convinced that we are so weak, and our situation is so unique, that it leads to our utter despair, our belief God is for everyone except us, and our utter break down to believe Him for our life at all.

What is the answer then? What should we do when the Iron Chariots Come, and the riches of Canaan entice? What should we do when it just seems easier to give in and give up?

The answer is so simple it is infuriating to one who believes he has "tried." The answer is to take God at His word, burn all your bridges back to Canaan as a means of escape, Pick up your cross and go on. I once heavily smoked and had many other addictions when I came to the Lord. My life was an absolute mess. With some of these I tried and failed early on just like many other Christians. I prayed furiously and asked for prayer even more furiously to no avail. The secret to overcoming my failures I learned was this. When you finally mean business with the Lord, the Lord will mean business with you.

One day I saw it all and and saw what I needed to do. I knew the Lord was not going to just flash bang every problem away. He was going to make me go out onto the plains and face the iron chariots. My honor and integrity depended upon Him. With One, He would defeat a thousand, as the verse says. But it was going to take the one who was willing to go out and stand against the thousand. The cigarettes and all the other addictions, fornication, booze, gambling etc. had to be put down. No half empty pack stored away somewhere, "Just in case". No, the utter and absolute decision was going to have to be made. The ships were going to have to be burned leaving no escape from the island I had left myself on. The whole thing was going to have to be put in God's hands, leaving myself no plan B.

When I put these things on the altar for good and He saw I meant it fire did come down and take that offering. It wasn't the fire of Elijah, but it was the miraculous fire of faith working in obedience. It wasn't easy. Chariots of Iron never are. But it was miraculous. Day by day the grace was given me to get though, until one day I came out of the forest on the other side into a great field of light, the sound of trumpets, and the shout of victory. The Lord had prevailed. The Iron Chariots had been defeated. One had stood against a thousand and prevailed in His Lord. The riches of Canaan and all its power were no more.

But if this message just stopped there it would stop well short of where it needs to land. As wonderful and miraculous as these embarrassing, heinous ,dirtier sins are to be delivered from, you learn the longer you walk with the Lord, they are just the tip of the ice-berg the depths the Lord intends and needs to go.

In a large part it is we His people, Christianity as a whole, that has stopped well short of where we needed to be. We have not gone in. We have not taken the land God so desired us to have. Christ is that land, and we are His people. The riches of Him await. The chariots of Canaan and the lust of the land thereof stand in our way. He is looking for a people in this day who's hearts burn within them. Who sees what He is really after. Who are willing to burn the ships of Canaan, step out onto the plains and face the thousand. Whatever it costs, whatever it takes to go onward for the Lord to prevail.

For those who do they will see the chariots fall, the land taken, and the light of Christ in a brand new day. For those who stay put they will see further decline, disintegration, chaos, the trap sprung, the thorns sharpened, cultures blended in until you can't tell them apart, the whips pulled out, His people beaten down. It is happening now. It has been happening for quite some time. So today if you hear His voice do not harden your hearts as you did in past rebellion. Step out into the light. Face the chariots. Go into battle with Christ. If you do. The victory will surely be yours.
I believe the number one thing that keeps us from doing the Lord’s will is Fear. In our mind we can see 100 different scenarios of something going wrong when we step out of our comfort zones.
 
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Brad D.

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I believe the number one thing that keeps us from doing the Lord’s will is Fear. In our mind we can see 100 different scenarios of something going wrong when we step out of our comfort zones.
I agree fear is definitely a factor ar times, along perhaps with the cost and the sacrifice involved as equal contenders to our faith. We see the way forward is not going to be easy, it is often contrary to our flesh, and we capitulate, or find an easier softer way. If we would only step forward though, we do find His grace is sufficient day by day to see us through. But perhaps the most important thing than even the thing itself is Christ is enlarged in us, we come into greater light, and we see in a way we had not seen.

Thank you so much for your wise insight
 
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