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Breetai

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"My daughter is going to college Monday or Tuesday after the concert," Griffes said. "We were hoping to get ready for that. Instead, we'll have to deal with the Phish concert."
Now what is really more important here? She can go to the Phish concert and have the time of her life, or she can sit at home and have a boring time with her family(to which she'll get to see many more times in her life again anyway). She probably isn't even going very far from home to go to school. What's the big deal? What harm will be done by her being a little more excited and by having a little more to look forward to in life? Life is short, have fun! Her parents should be more worried about the crazy things that her daughter will most likely do in her freshman year of school. They should be more worried about her meeting someone like me(as I was when I was 19) during her frosh week.

Her parents should get a life and get their priorites straight.
 
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ps139

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DMBfanLongliveStrongBad! said:
hey guys.

i bought Junta today. i've listened to the first discs... it's pretty sweet.
Thats awesome!
My favorites on there are: You Enjoy Myself, Esther, Divided Sky, and David Bowie.

YEM, Bowie and Divided Sky are AMAZING in concert. Its great to get to know the studio version so you are acquainted with the "skeleton" of the song, then when you hear it live you know where they're improvising, adding on parts, stretching parts etc. I love Junta.
 
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D

DMBfanLongliveStrongBad!

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i went back to that cd store where i got Junta yesterday, and saw A Live One, it was used for $16.99, but it was in bad condition (it had paint on the bottom of one of the discs)...
i asked the guy at the counter about it and he gave it to me for 50 cents... i cleaned the paint off with nail polish remover, and am now enjoying it.

Here's to finding a great deal!
 
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ps139

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Ahhh nice bargain my friend!! 50 cents!!
Clever thinking there - enjoy your CDs!!!

A Live One is the album that converted me - specifically the disc with Harry Hood, Wilson, Simple, Tweezer, Squirming Coil. Harry Hood is just so great!
 
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theoneway

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Sorry it has taken me a while to respond.

Wow - feel the love. Fair enough; I have always said that no one should take anything anyone says at face value but should find out the truth for themselves.

...Hi, I'm Michael.

I first heard Phish in '91. The peak of my fandom was from '93 through June '95. In November of '94 I got saved, which was the beginning of the end for my being able to be a wholehearted Phish fan, especially after seeing them live...but that's a whole other story.

Let me also preface this by saying that if I didn't strongly identify with Phish, I probably wouldn't be so passionate about the things that bother me about them. I have a love/hate relationship with their music. I also want to say that, on a purely musical level, I believe that Trey is one of the greatest living composers (the other guys are great composers, too, btw). As a group, the band has, at their best, been able to pull off with seeming effortlessness what most bands would never even think to try. Their music has been tremendously influential on my own work (I am a composer/multi-instrumentalist).

I don't remember where I first read about Mike Gordon's "epiphany," but this page has an excerpt from The Phish Book where he discusses it briefly:

I don't have enough posts to post external links. PM me.

Phish.Net describes it as "a religious experience":

I don't have enough posts to post external links. PM me.

And, I stand corrected, the room was round rather than pentagonal.

ps139 said:
I've never ever heard him mock Jesus.
Here's the Marshall interview in which he mocks Jesus:

I don't have enough posts to post external links. PM me.

You will probably accuse me of overreacting.

ps139 said:
But he has nothing to do with Phish's music.
Yeah, nothing at all - he only wrote the lyrics to almost every Phish song.

ps139 said:
And why do you think Ghost is about a demon? You are overreacting. I actually thought it was about a guardian angel. It seems like you're looking for the negative meaning.
No, I'm not. How do I know "Ghost" is about a demon? Because Marshall said so himself in an interview. I haven't been able to locate that interview again to post here, but will be glad to share it when/if I do. You might also be interested in a similar admission by Richard "Nancy" Wright, who wrote "Halley's Comet," & "I Didn't Know". This can be found on pp. 245-246 of The Phish Companion, First Edition (to be fair, he describes the experience as a negative one). If you're such a phan, how come you don't already know this stuff?

ps139 said:
No offense but after this I cant take you seriously. A little girl drowns. Must all songs be about happy things?
The point I was attempting to make regarding "Esther," etc. is that life-threateningly bad things happening to people for seemingly no reason is a recurring theme throughout the entire Phish oeuvre (e.g. "Guyute," "It's Ice," "Free," [which, according to The Phish Companion, is about a guy throwing his wife from the ship on which they both are traveling], "Limb by Limb," etc.). I understand that a lot of it is metaphorical or revolves around Marshall's sick sense of humor, but I can't help but ask myself why this is such a prevalent theme...then of course there's Prov. 4:24...

It was a lackluster show, that's all. Mike was strong throughout, but the band didn't seem to find the "it," as Trey would put it. Trey got so ****ed at his mistakes during the performance of the "Squirming Coil" encore that during the jam that precedes Page's closing solo, he took off his guitar and walked off stage before anyone else. "Timber Ho!" was great, though. Since then I have heard parts of other '04 shows; Alpine second night and Keyspan Park first night are the clear standouts, imo.

The remark about a "sacrifice to Baal" was half facetious, but are you familiar with the 10/31/95 show? Oh, and you have to love the double encore of "Amazing Grace" and "Highway to Hell" which was played a few times on '93 tour.

ps139 said:
...what do you mean by "Aggressive witnessing?"
Sharing the love of God with as many people as possible. What did you think I meant? Good point about Paul in Athens, though - I think of that often.

This one guy I know did something pretty ingenious - shortly after Big Cypress, he put together this postcard tract. On the front is a color still of Phish playing during Big Cypress. On the back he says something to the effect that "On 12/31/99, Phish made musical history by playing for 8 hours straight." He then uses that as a springboard to start talking about eternity and then salvation. It ends with an "I love you" and his email address. He says that the response has been very positive.

No offense, but I don't need to be told how to evangelize; I've been in ministry for 10 years. Thanks, anyway. If you can't see the reality of most people on tour and their search for fulfillment and a messiah in all the wrong places, let alone the reality of what's up spiritually with the band itself, that's too bad.

The point of all this is that, as Christians, we have a responsibility to expose darkness and untruth for what it is. Since most phans regard every eye blink from Trey as gospel, I think it behooves us to closely examine what is being communicated, verbally and otherwise. Phish's music invites dissection, and many others have done so from other perspectives, so why are people offended when I bring up things from a Christian perspective that I feel need to be addressed? I also believe people should make informed decisions. I was under the impression that other Christians might understand all these things without my explaining them, but obviously I was mistaken.

I am not "looking for the negative," I am being a realist. Choosing to see life through rose-colored glasses is ultimately much more dangerous than any assertions I have made. The gospel demands that we be completely honest with God, with others, and with ourselves. That's what I'm trying to do.
 
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ps139

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theoneway said:
Wow - feel the love.
The way you came on with your first post just lambasting Phish - come one what can you expect??

Anyway, we are more or less on the same "team" and we should make sure this is a discussion and not a heated debate. That being said, hello, my name is Bill

Send me the links, we can post the article and discuss it.
Religious experience is a term that means an experience that is profound and moving, which is what true religion is. But the term doesnt always mean that the experience had much to do with religion or theology at all. Its just an idiom of our language.



Here's the Marshall interview in which he mocks Jesus
I don't have enough posts to post external links. PM me.

You will probably accuse me of overreacting.
Is this interview A from the Phish Companion? If so, I do see where you are coming from. Marshall is essentially a person who believes that whole organized religions do teach some good values they're basically crutches for people cant handle the world. Its funny, because thats what I think about most non-religious people, that they cant handle any sense of accountability so they write all religion off as nonsense. He says that in his younger days he was very anti-religion but more importantly anti-religious people. He liked to make fun of and shock "Jesus Freaks." I hope he hears that DC Talk song!!
He has calmed down a bit, but when you analyze his statements, its apparent that he has only looked at religion on the surface. I bet he hasnt read any theology. And he doesnt seem to distinguish between different religions. I will pray for him, that he can open his mind. The songs Big and Lifeboy definitely do convey this feeling, and for that reason I refuse to listen to them. I dont need that. One thing I love about Phish is that they are almost always about the music and nothing else. They dont throw in their views about religion or politics the way other artists do. Many of Phish's lyrics are completely nonsensical, which I love. I rarely listen to their lyrics anyway, they totally pale in comparison to the music.


Yeah, nothing at all - he only wrote the lyrics to almost every Phish song.
I said "He has nothing to do with their music" meaning that he doesnt compose any songs. He doesnt influence what notes or chords or keys or scales are used. And composition, aside from energy and improvisation, is what draws me to Phish. Not lyrics. Thats what I meant by that statement - its very literal.

No, I'm not. How do I know "Ghost" is about a demon? Because Marshall said so himself in an interview. I haven't been able to locate that interview again to post here, but will be glad to share it when/if I do.
If I've read the same one as you I don't recall "demon." He talked about a spirit of some kind. Could it be a demon? sure. It could also be an angel. When I read about that song I always thought it was about a guardian angel.

I did know this stuff I just have a different take on it that you. Nancy Wright is really messed up. I just re-read his interview today and I read where he says he felt he was possessed by a demon. The man also visited astrologers and for 5 years thought he was a woman trapped in a mans body, and thought he had a past life. He is a nut. But I still love the songs.

Well in real life bad things happen to people for no apparent reason. Like I said earlier, Phish is more about the music that the lyrics. I think thats one reason why Marshall does most of the lyric writing. Guyute is about some sort of evil pig, its just a nutty song. The lyrics are dumb but the music is beautiful. As for Free and Limb By Limb, please elaborate, I always thought Free was about just being free, from whatever. And I never really paid attention to the lyrics of Limb By Limb. Maybe thats just me and the rest of the listeners pick up on this. But also, many Phish lyrics can be about anything, they make a point of saying that.
[bible]Proverbs 4:24[/bible]

Thanks for that. Now I know which show not to download .

The remark about a "sacrifice to Baal" was half facetious, but are you familiar with the 10/31/95 show? Oh, and you have to love the double encore of "Amazing Grace" and "Highway to Hell" which was played a few times on '93 tour.
I do not know about the 10-31-95 show. And honestly with the rest of the stuff you said I did not know that the Baal thing was half-joke. I do hate that double encore. That sends a bad message. I also dont like how they leave out the lines about Jesus in "Daniel Saw the Stone" Also they sometimes add a word in there that I do not appreciate (you might know what I mean) and I skip thru that part on my CD.

Sharing the love of God with as many people as possible. What did you think I meant? Good point about Paul in Athens, though - I think of that often.
I didnt really know, I was just hoping it wasnt walking up to a fan and saying "Are you saved?" Because if you dont talk their vocabulary then its breeding grounds for mutual misunderstanding.

Thats great!

No offense, but I don't need to be told how to evangelize; I've been in ministry for 10 years.
Hey, you came across as angry and forceful in your first post I was hoping you werent like that in your evangelization. Some people who evangelize the wrong way often turn people off to Jesus.

Thanks, anyway. If you can't see the reality of most people on tour and their search for fulfillment and a messiah in all the wrong places, let alone the reality of what's up spiritually with the band itself, that's too bad.
I see the problems with a lot of the fans. Its the same as the rest of the world, just a different "messiah." With the band, I honestly think most of them are indifferent toward organized religion, with the exception maybe of Fishman. They may not be connected very close with God but I dont think they actively seek out the devil either.

I see what youre saying and I agree but you need to be careful about your presentation. You just rushed in here with all these bad things to say about Phish and didnt back them up. And I still disagree on some of your interpretations, esp. Ghost, so perhaps its not so obvious to everyone?

Thats commendable, and I'm glad you are trying to evangelize at the shows - not too many people have the guts to do that.
 
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ps139

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DMB233 said:
personally, I find the lyrics to" you enjoy myself" rather insightful.


I think you may actually have a point....the "Boy!" "Man!" "God!" "Sh**!" are basically 4 of the most common words people say when they are angry, surprised, laughing, etc. These words will be used interchangeably to mean the same thing. Yet in reality their meanings span from God - Truth, Perfection, Love, Justice, Mercy - to the "s-word." which is the lowest of lows. And "Boy" and 'Man" are in the middle of those 2 I think. And they are both different themselves. Thats a great part of Phish's humor that I love.

As for: "Wash Uffizzi, drive me to Firenze." Hmmmm???
I heard that when Trey and Fish were in Italy, they went to Firenze and were driven there by this smelly cab driver named 'Uffizzi.' But then again the Uffizzi is a famous museum in Firenze. I dont think anyone will ever know the truth behind that one because I dont think the band members even remember why they do it
 
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twosteppin

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hmm.. Never looked at it that way. I was wondering about that uffizzi part. Its truw what you said earlyer though about the music always out weighing the lyrics. Expect for the song "secret smile" Talk about songs bringing a tear to your eye
 
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ps139

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DMB233 said:
hmm.. Never looked at it that way. I was wondering about that uffizzi part. Its truw what you said earlyer though about the music always out weighing the lyrics. Expect for the song "secret smile" Talk about songs bringing a tear to your eye
There are some songs where the lyrics are solely there to act sort of like an extra instrument to the song. Where they are chosen because of the phonetics. When Trey wrote Esther, these lyrics "Quibble grew to spat, to wrangle, then to brawl" were put in because he likes how the sounds that the mouth makes while saying them fit into the song. If you listen to the song Cavern it makes no sense because its just lyrics to fit the song. Same thing with Stash, I think. Stash has some sort of story going on but its not clear at all. And YEM fits this category. So does David Bowie. Golgi Apparatus, Harry Hood, Reba, Divided Sky, Runaway Jim. Parts of Fluffhead and Character Zero and NICU. A lot of their earlier songs do this. Actually most of the songs I just listed are from Junta, their first album. Most of the later stuff has meanings though, and in general, the later you get with Phish the more meanings songs will have. Some of the songs are from Tom Marshall's poetry, Trey will find lines he likes and put them in songs, or write songs around them, even if a lyrical message is not really connected. Other times its pure poetry and the song is really deep. Secret Smile, Scents and Subtle Sounds, Waves, Pebbles and Marbles, Brian and Robert, Sleep, Farmhouse, Waste, Ghost, Birds of a Feather, Its Ice, Heavy Things, etc. I think the trend reflects their maturity - from being 22 years old and carefree, partying, travelling all over the country in a van... to now where some of them are married with kids, have grown older and reflect on deeper things, have seen more in life etc.

So I think its sort of split, and of course there are a bunch of songs "in between."

Trey writes some lyrics, less frequently the other band members do, but most are written by Tom Marshall, Trey's friend from when they were kids. But with pure music its mostly all Trey, although on each album there are usualyl a few songs written by one of the other members, or by the group as a whole. Their primary concentration is in the music.
 
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twosteppin

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yeah, I just love reading the little booklet with the lyrics from "undermind" . But if I were to read the lyrics to songs such as you enjoy myself, without having heard the music, i would be like "what they hey?!...this sucks" do they ever just make up lyrics to go with the jamming during a concert.. (Like when they are randomly playing). that would be cool.
What up with "grind"??
just so you know.... i have lived for 12,00 days
 
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ps139

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Sometimes they do change the lyrics in concert. On YEM they often do a really cool vocal jam at the end. So, in the song after the first round of "Wash Uffizzi etc" there is a Page solo, a Trey solo, and a Mike solo. When all 3 are done (they only do a Page solo on the album, live YEMs are a lot better, yes that is possible ) then they say "Wash Uffizzi etc" again, and keep saying it, and stop playing it and keep saying it, and they just sort of make a song out of it, just going with whatever sounds come out of their mouths....its hard to explain...its gotten really soulfull, to really scary, to Gregorian monk sounding...theres no telling where they will go with a vocal jam..sometimes into another song, if they happen to stumble across the rhythm or melody of another song....my favorite vocal jam is the "Drive me to my summer house" one that goes right into the song Possum. This is on LivePhish 9, all the way back from 1987 or 89 or something.
What up with "grind"??
In the late 80s/ early 90s, they started doing some barbershop quartet songs. At shows they've done "Ragtime Gal" (it goes "Hello my baby, hello my darling, hello my ragtime gal, send me a kiss by wire, baby my hearts on fire" etc). They get really great harmonies. Grind was only performed once, on New Years Eve 1998. I think they decided to do it for the CD on a whim. Dont ask me about the lyrics they make no sense at all!!
 
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