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The Passion- No flames please

CeCe

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porcupine said:
I looked for that, but I don't see it. Can you cite?
I've looked too. The only things I came up with are from Deuteronomy 25:2-3

2.then it shall be, if the wicked man deserves to be beaten, that the judge will cause him to lie down and be beaten in his presence, according to his guilt, with a certain number of blows. 3. Forty blows he may give him and no more, lest he should exceed this and beat him with many blows above these, and your brother be humiliated in your sight.

and also from 2 Corinthians 11:24-From the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one.

From the research I was able to do (and if it was accurate) the person giving the beating would not be responsible for the death of the person receiving it as long as they did not exceed 40. But you know how the internet is.

I couln't find anything that pertained to the scourging of Jesus specifically.
 
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porcupine

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CeCe said:
I've looked too. The only things I came up with are from Deuteronomy 25:2-3

2.then it shall be, if the wicked man deserves to be beaten, that the judge will cause him to lie down and be beaten in his presence, according to his guilt, with a certain number of blows. 3. Forty blows he may give him and no more, lest he should exceed this and beat him with many blows above these, and your brother be humiliated in your sight.

and also from 2 Corinthians 11:24-From the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one.

From the research I was able to do (and if it was accurate) the person giving the beating would not be responsible for the death of the person receiving it as long as they did not exceed 40. But you know how the internet is.

I couln't find anything that pertained to the scourging of Jesus specifically.

This is what I was referring to in my earlier post. The Jews were restricted to 40, the Romans were not. Jesus was given a lot more than 40. The Romans used a Quaterion (a group of four) professional scouragers who were used to both punish and question people. These guys worked until they felt like it was done.
 
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CeCe

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porcupine said:
This is what I was referring to in my earlier post. The Jews were restricted to 40, the Romans were not. Jesus was given a lot more than 40. The Romans used a Quaterion (a group of four) professional scouragers who were used to both punish and question people. These guys worked until they felt like it was done.
You know, sometimes I think there are a lot of things people believe are in the Bible that are just not there.



And to get back on topic I plan to see The Passion again. :)
 
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Philothea

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You may be right. We'll see I suppose. If it's truely what it is...he'll show me. Somehow. I use to think when I was young and trying desperately to believe in him that I had plenty of time for all of that. Now...I know there might not be a tomorrow. I may get killed in a freak accident tomorrow for all I know. This is a hard thing for me to cope with in all of my anger toward whatever is up there. Right now...it's a love hate thing. But how can one desire an apology from god. Seems arrogant to me. Can't help the way I feel, but that's how it is. I feel utterly forsaken. :mad: :confused: :cry: :( :help:
 
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moogirl

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Philothea said:
You may be right. We'll see I suppose. If it's truely what it is...he'll show me. Somehow. I use to think when I was young and trying desperately to believe in him that I had plenty of time for all of that. Now...I know there might not be a tomorrow. I may get killed in a freak accident tomorrow for all I know. This is a hard thing for me to cope with in all of my anger toward whatever is up there. Right now...it's a love hate thing. But how can one desire an apology from god. Seems arrogant to me. Can't help the way I feel, but that's how it is. I feel utterly forsaken. :mad: :confused: :cry: :( :help:

Philothea. I'm not an expert on the "whys" of life. I've experienced many bad things (as I'm sure many of us have), and have even questioned God.. "WHY? GOD, IM MAD !!"... but in moments of reflection and repentence, I come to terms that these bad things that happen are often the very things that refine me, give me character, and remind me that there is a better time coming.

I know I have gone off -topic, but I can't ignore someone who seems to be yearning for a relationship with God, but can't because something is holding them back.

I won't tell you the usual "Let Go, and Let God", that's an easy answer and one that is overy used.

The one thing that helps me through anger is prayer. Its not a bad thing to ask God "why".. it's not a bad thing to be honest with him and say, "God, I'm angry at you, but I don't want to be.. speak to me, and give me understanding".

He'll answer. Believe me, He will. Maybe not when you are looking for either, but when you least expect it, in the most unexpected way.

God bless you, and I admire your honesty and candor!!
 
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mrversatile48

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From www.sheeptrax.com - by permission

Looking for an innovative way to share your faith? Write and ask us how your church can get licensed to use the SheepTrax "please don't wrap fish in this" Digest. Today's SheepTrax is a feature from the upcoming Easter edition.
---------------------------------------------------------------
March 5, 2004
Sharing Jesus With A Movie Critic

To the Two Thumbs Up & Down Guys,

With all of the hoopla surrounding Mel Gibson's blockbuster The Passion Of The Christ, it has become readily apparent to me as a lay theologian that many in the media industry lack a basic understanding of Christianity. Therefore, I decided a theological primer penned in MOVIE TITLES might assist you as you work through the meaning of the suffering, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Looking from the outside, it would be easy to assume The Gods Must be Crazy. Yet Christians believe, "For God so loved the world…" that he gave Jesus as a Ransom for our sins. The word Gospel means, "Good News." He claimed to be God in the flesh and was either Moonstruck or who he claimed to be, the King Of Kings.

Going back that infamous incident with The Lady Eve when she and Adam fell through disobedience, their dominion over the earth was surrendered and they was driven out the presence of God. Our earthly Paradise became a Forbidden Planet yet God promised to send a Redeemer to literally buy our race back out of bondage to sin. A terrible price had to be paid for our redemption and it is the mystery of the Gospel that God decided to pay it himself.

Millennia later, Jesus began his public ministry announcing the coming of the kingdom of God. He was a teacher telling God's Love Story, a prophet, and The Miracle Worker who inflamed the entrenched religious establishment of his day, bypassing them and instead choosing 12 immediate followers to be his Apostles, not exactly The Dirty Dozen, but close enough. They were Ordinary People who became All The King's Men, his Witness to the world.

The Bible teaches that that there are only really two races, or classes of people, those who are by faith children of God and those who are Children Of A Lesser God, whom the Bible calls, "Satan, the god of this present world." Enter The Dragon. If he could cause Trouble In Paradise, waging The War Of The Worlds against God and his faithful angels, why not here in the Carnival Of Souls of The Lost World? Yet Jesus promised to build a church secure in Him so that Gates Of Hell would not prevail against us.

Conflict is the basis of all good drama, is it not?

In A Lonely Place, the cross became - may Mel forgive me - God's Lethal Weapon where Jesus became The Accused. He invited the world to A View To A Kill while he Beat The Devil giving him the proverbial Das Boot from heaven even as His shed blood flowed like a Red River.

Some theological concepts to grasp: According to the Bible, God is a person who is One In Three, sometimes called The trinity; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He is not the Godfather in three parts, as he is kind, but is instead God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. And just like Coppola movies, these three are one!

The Awful Truth about we humans is that we're a race of sinners and rebels. Christians, those who have given their lives to Christ, have A Free Soul, a new nature, yet often undergo a Dr. Jekyll And Mr. Hyde battle learning how to yield to the indwelling presence and Providence of the Spirit of God, who helps us gain Deliverance over our own Human Bondage. Such is The Way Of All Flesh.

The Cross of Christ is the central focal point of human history. The stakes? You and I. Jesus had to either Beat The Devil at High Noon or we, the fallen sons of Adam, would remain forever Unforgiven. Although it is arguably the worst film ever made, we really do live on Battlefield Earth, or better, on an Island Of Lost Souls. Any thinking person acknowledges that there is A Touch Of Evil on this Ship Of Fools we call earth.

As to the Passion of the Christ, once Judas gave Jesus The Death Kiss, the sacrifice was on. Jesus was arrested, judged and crucified on what cynics grimly call A Roman Holiday. For Him, it was The Longest Day, The Day The Earth Stood Still. He was Doomed to Die. He tasted the bitter Grapes Of Wrath, the dregs of the sins of the whole world, all for the Glory to come. He was Trading Places with us, dying in our stead, that we might live life anew.

He paid the price To Catch A Thief and for The Great Escape for humanity from sin by hanging Midway between heaven and earth. The Bible records a great Earthquake that tore open the holies of holies, the Torn Curtain that once symbolically separated men and God, as he finally dealt with Evil Under The Sun. Jesus cried, "It is finished" and that was The End Of The Affair.

He promises eternal life to all who come to him, swearing that if we accept his sacrifice in our place, we will never Die Another Day. However, the consequences of rejecting this priceless gift are sadly eternal. Ask not For Whom The Bell Tolls. If you think Some Like it Hot, think again!

So what did happen to the body of the crucified man from Nazareth? Was it snatched away by The Invasion Of The Body Snatchers? No. He walked out of the tomb alive and became the Dead Man Walking. After his resurrection, he was seen by over 500 people alive and then went From Here to Eternity. He even appeared to his cowering disciples inside a locked room. How could they Guess Who's Coming to Dinner? His disciples first thought they had seen a Ghost! Yet there he stood, scars and all, triumphant over death saying, "Peace be with you."

God became a man, the King Of Kings a servant. Jesus is The Lion King and The King And I are friends having made peace through his cross. The verdict is clear: he is who he claimed to be, God the Son. Now his church, his Princess Bride, awaits The Return Of The King and the impending Apocalypse. We who love his appearing will soon Hail The Conquering Hero.

But what about the Elmer Gantry's of the world? Aren't they the best argument against Christianity? I'm a sinner saved and paid for by the blood of the Lam of God. I daily struggle to learn this new life in Christ. It's A Wonderful Life but it isn't always easy to live. Critics can point fingers and toss a lot of Raging Bull but I trust in the mercy and grace of God to help me live for him. Only God can truly Judge and on that great and terrible day when each of us stands before him to give an account for our lives, judge he will.

So, you could Meet Me In St. Louis over coffee to discuss this and allow me to share some of the faith adventures from the Life Of Brian with you or you can open your Bible and begin to read the story for yourself. Yet whatever you do with Jesus, remember this about all the material stuff of life: You Can't Take It With You. His is The Never-Ending Story! Eternal Life is the sequel; the question remains for you is where you choose to spend it.

Well, in the words attributed to God in Bruce Almighty, "Armageddon outta here!"
 
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Salsa_1960

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I went to see "The Passion Of The Christ" last Sunday. The scene that really struck me was where Peter denied Christ.

We're so hard on him (Peter). I'm not saying that Peter was right, (he wasn't), but given the circumstances, I don't know that I would have handled it any differently than he did.

It's easy to sit here 2000 years later and say, "I would have done this," or "I wouldn't have done that." It's quite another thing to actually be there at the moment-- your life on the line.

I'd like to say that I would have fared better than Peter did, but after watching the movie and feeling like I was right there and in his position, I'm not so sure I can say that this is true.

It makes me appreciate Christ's love for me all the more.

~Sandy
 
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porcupine

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beinesther said:
I cant wait to see The Passion. I will not take my 4 year old son and 10 year old daughter but my 12 year old daughter is in the midst of her teenage walk... any body have thoughts about taking her with me?

Take the 10 if she is on the more mature for her age edge. Take the 12. I've had 6 kids and 13 grandchildren. Kids can usually handle it a lot better than we give them credit for -- especially if thay have a basic understanding of what Jesus did for us. If you tend to freak out, they will probably respond more to how you react, so don't go over the edge when you see it with them.
 
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frost

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I'd even warn against taking the 12 year old. Besides the graphic torture scenes, the movie is scary in other ways. It could almost be a horror movie with all the creepy imagry, demonic children, the Satan scenes, etc. This movie is rated "R" for good reason. I also tend to agree with Roger Ebert who said if the movie were about anyone except Jesus, this movie would be rated NC-17 (no one under 17 gets in with or without an adult.) My advice is to go see it yourself (without the kids,) and then decide if they should see it before subjecting them to it. Don't get me wrong I think it's a good movie and any Christian that feels they should see it should see it. But, discretion is advised when bringing children.
 
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September

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With regard to the question of the scene with satan holding the 'baby', here's a quote from an article on Christianitytoday.com:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/movies/news/040301-passion.html

"Again," said Gibson, "it's evil distorting what's good. What is more tender and beautiful than a mother and a child? So the Devil takes that and distorts it just a little bit. Instead of a normal mother and child you have an androgynous figure holding a 40-year-old 'baby' with hair on his back. It is weird, it is shocking, it's almost too much—just like turning Jesus over to continue scourging him on his chest is shocking and almost too much, which is the exact moment when this appearance of the Devil and the baby takes place."
 
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lilmxican

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well, me and my girlfriend were talking about the baby and we gathered that the baby was there to mock jesus . We saw it as Satan mocking Jesus by holding his son while God's son was being brutally torn apart. Maybe to hurt him even more to make him lose faith and spiritual strenght. I dont know.. just a thought. OH YEA!!

All you people out there that are hacking on every little piece of this movie and magnifying every little piece you think is wrong, give it up. This movie wasn't meant to
be perfect. It was to me but my expectations were different. I didn't see Jesus getting getting murdered and ripped apart. I saw MY HERO, MY SAVIOR, MY EVERYTHING GIVING his life for YOU and ME. That is nothing short of the most beautiful thing imaginable. So watch what you say about His movie. It might have been created by mere sinful, mistaken men, but his hand was undeniably all over this. If you don't see that then my heart goes out to you.

Psalm 37
7 Be still before the LORD and wait patiently for him;
do not fret when men succeed in their ways,
when they carry out their wicked schemes.
8 Refrain from anger and turn from wrath;
do not fret-it leads only to evil.
9 For evil men will be cut off,
but those who hope in the LORD will inherit the land
 
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