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the PABLUM thread

Discussion in 'Spirit-Filled / Charismatic' started by murjahel, Jun 16, 2013.

  1. murjahel

    murjahel Senior Veteran


    If one is on 'pablum' spiritually, and still growing on it, and trying to avoid the 'poisoned food of the devil', then to feed on the debates of discussion boards, is going to make you choke... and maybe vomit it up.

    Certain beliefs, whether major doctrine or minor details, become the subject of debates on message boards, or in other gatherings of Christians.

    We all do have our own emphasis of Scripture, some taught by denominations, some learned in our walk with the Lord.

    These points, minor and major, often are debated vehemently, and constantly on message boards.

    Surely, if someone is straying from truth, we are to exhort, encourage, and help lift them up. Yet, some debates go further than that, by far.

    As David Wilkerson said, there are even Satanists, witches, who frequent such places to attack, mock, and stir up trouble. They pretend to be righteous saints, and keep debate going.

    We are to walk in the faith which we have been given by the Lord. Sometimes that walk is long, and the wait for fulfillment of the promises we cling to, seems never ending.

    Hebrews 11:13-16
    "But these all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things, declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned, But now they desire a better country, that is an heavenly; wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He hath prepared for them a city."

    God is proud and not ashamed to be called our God, if we take the revelations we have and cling to them, even unto death. We want Him to be proud of us, we want to cling to the revealed truths in the Word. Often we have to take a stand on truth, deny the devil, stand in truth. Some may interpret that as us being belligerent with the truths, and shove them down the throats of others. Most of us don't, but rather, some want to take the truth we speak, and shove that truth down our throats.

    Our sharing of truth in the Word of God is good, but constant debate, angry attack on all other ideas is not God’s way. Therefore, when I present some truths, and some attack, misconstrue what I am saying, jump all over me and what I have said, I do not even answer them, even though there are good and valid answers to be given. Contending with those who are not in truth, who would stamp on truth if they saw it, will not do any good.

    Jesus told the disciples to go from city to city, and if not accepted in one city, leave and go to the next. Adamant resistance to truth makes one unworthy to have it presented over and over, to the neglect of others who would gladly accept it.

    Yet, some adamantly argue with those who will never accept it, not even if a gun was held to their heads. So, why attack them? why not find hungry hearts?

    God wants the correct living in our lives, and the correct understanding of the true Word of God in our minds. Our lives will exhibit what we truly believe. Present the gospel to hungry hearts, preach the truth to hearers that have ears wanting to hear. Let the Holy Spirit work on those hard hearted ones who reject truth. Even He will give up on some, so let that decision be His, and find some who want to hear what God has shown you.

    Because God is vitally concerned with the correctness of our understanding of His message, the devil is at work to attack, pollute, and pervert the true Word of God. The incorrect teaching and living of God's message is called HERESY.
    Galatians 5:19-21
    "Now the works of the flesh are manifest... adultery, fornication...etc... heresies... they that do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

    II Peter 2:1
    "There shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies..."

    The Bible clearly warns that in the last days [especially] there shall be many false teachers and heretics who teach a perverted gospel. They pervert and distort what the Bible is teaching, and create doctrines that are able to bring damnation to their believers. We are to preach the truth, the vital truths that will bring salvation to hearers if they believe.

    While arguing over the correct version, the size of the altar, the wardrobe to wear in church, the length of hair, the size of our offering, how to get a mercedes in your driveway, what food is best to eat, etc... we are neglecting teaching the truths that keep heretics from leading people astray.

    We need not debate every item of difference between us and others. Not all error is "heresy."

    Some may believe the rapture will occur in the middle of the tribulation, some may believe it will come at the end of the tribulation, and some will believe it will be at the beginning. They can all go to heaven when it does occur, and the groups that are wrong are not heretics. The incorrect understanding of that doctrine will not damn the soul.

    Yet, there are other teachings that will damn the soul if believed. These are the ones we call "heresy." "Heresy" is a doctrinal difference that if believed will damn the soul.

    Minor disagreements amidst Christians are nothing to stumble over... We need to get into the Word of God, and study to resolve which doctrines are truly taught in the Word.

    Paul and Barnabas disputed an idea for a while.

    Peter and Paul had a difference of opinion on a doctrinal issue for a time.

    The disciples disputed at Antioch on the need for circumcision for a time.

    Paul was even called a "heretic" in his time. Yet, he argued that he based all of his doctrines on what was written in the "law and the prophets."

    Acts 24:14
    "But this I confess unto thee, that, after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and the prophets."

    We may be called heretics for some minor infraction of another’s ideas. That is no big deal... that puts us there in the same boat with Paul.

    Forget if some ‘debaters’ want to debate and debate on the correct version of the Bible, the denomination that is best, the best style of gospel music, etc...

    Those debates, even if won, do not bring us a crown for best in debate class.

    In fact, the Holy Spirit is not the teacher in that class. He is too busy trying to teach us how to win souls, and how to identify the ‘heresies’ that doom souls, not the minor debate-able minor details.
    Even some who believe the Word of God correctly [as Paul] will be called "heretics."

    It is not what you are called that is important, it is whether you are believing and living the Word of God properly.

    Even some of the Christians in Jerusalem could not accept Paul and his teachings...
    Acts 9:24
    "...he assayed to join himself to the disciples; but they were all afraid of him and believed not that he was a disciple."

    Don't have your mind set on having everyone applaud your life and ministry.

    Just be sure to have the proper understanding of the Word of God, and live it!

    What God thinks of the minor debates, the judgmental attitudes found on message boards, church vestibules, and fellowship gatherings, is probably not too hard to imagine. What God thinks of the debates, never ending debates, that occupy most of the time of some, is that there is no need to answer every challenge, no need to debate the unconvinceable, no need to get sidetracked from Biblical principles of the debate, to personal insults, and personal animosity.

    Paul addresses that problem.
    Romans 14:1
    "Him that is weak in the faith, receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations."

    Wait, did that tell us not to argue with the ‘weak’ in faith? I think it did. The petty arguments with those who are not as ‘taught’ as you or me, are not to just be argued with. The truth can be presented, and if some want to debate, let them try, but for us, we just keep presenting the truth.

    All other debates need moved to a forum called ‘doubtful disputations’, and then we just avoid that thread.

    Don't do as the early church did. They argued over what meats they should eat or not eat. They argued over what day was the correct one on which to worship the Lord. They argued over whether they should be vegetarians or not. They argued over who was the best teacher of the Word. The list could go on and on. Today, it is the same. Christians are arguing over many doctrines, and concepts.

    On many threads, meant to bring debate on 'food', 'day to worship', 'how to dress and comb your hair', the answer is worthy of one post, with Scripture to back your thoughts, and then exit, and let the debate go on without you. Those debates are most often not even worth the one answer, for sometimes, the debaters are 'ever learning but never able to come to a knowledge of truth'. So, debate there is worthless.

    Don't get into those debates. Study the Word, and find what it teaches. Believe that, and live it! Then get out and do the work that God wants done today. Win Souls to the Lord.

    Many others will argue and debate the color of the carpet for the church till the rapture happens... and never get to the work that God has saved us to do.

    What we do with our lives is going to be judged by the Lord someday.
    Romans 14:10-12
    "But why dost thou judge thy brother? and why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we must all stand before the judgment seat of Christ... everyone of us shall give an account of himself to God..."

    What about the ones who are teaching a perverted gospel that is truly "heresy"??? We are to try to teach the heretic twice the correct truth. Then, if the truth is rejected, we are to "reject" the heretic.

    Titus 3:10
    "A man that is an heretick, after the first and second admonition reject."

    The word "reject" is from the Greek word "paraiteomai" which means to "beg off." It does not mean to be angry and battle... it means to get away from that person and keep a distance from him and his teaching.

    Which version of the Bible is best’?, or is pork as good as beef? Or ‘whether you are the best saint on the board, or not? Take these minor issues, worthy of a one word answer is what fills many message boards.

    There are some major doctrines and teachings of the Bible for us to teach. Those who oppose those major things, and are unconvinceable, but want to insult, berate, and continue until you leave the truth the Word of God teaches, are not to be entertained, but are to be shunned.

    The pablum, milk, and meat that we are here to be consuming is in the Word of God, preached by the servants of God, and discussed civilly by the children of God. The poison of false doctrine, of lies and deceit, are not food for us to feed ourselves. As we do in the kitchen, food goes in the refrigerator, garbage goes in the trash container outside.

    Keep preparing good meals to share, uninvite those who bring garbage for the buffet table.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  2. murjahel

    murjahel Senior Veteran

    Some get fed pablum, milk, meat, on a regular basis, in personal Bible study, in church attendance, in community studies... in prayer and communion with the Lord.

    Yet in this world, we also get fed, willingly or unwillingly, the bad news of the world, the political bickering and the resulting mess of human attempts to rule, the accidents, crimes, fires, weather crisis, etc. of the daily news reports.

    We get full and stuffed spiritually with the bad news, the garbage of the world. How do we undo the damage done by garbage, so we can truly grow from the spiritual food of the Lord?

    The Bible does answer...
    it talks about the 'washing of the water by the Word'.. and the Word of God does do a work of washing out of our eyes, ears, and minds the filth the world tries to get in. We need more and more Bible study, more and more of speaking with the Lord personally, as the filth of this world coming at us, affecting our soul and spirit. The shield of faith, the breastplate of righteousness, the helmet of our salvation, etc are also helpful and wonderful and as we exercise the use of our armor, we find that rejection of letting those things get through and into our hearts does help.

    We are not to be an 'open book' with blank pages for the world, the flesh, and the devil to author words onto our hearts.. we need to wash any of those words and thoughts away, with the cleansing found in reading and accepting the truths of the Bible..

    The Bible says 'be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind'. Rom 12...

    We need to transform, cleanse, renew, anoint, and have blessed in us and on us the truths the Words of the Lord, written in the Bible, spoken and tested by the Bible, to us... That transformation of the defiled hearts and minds we can have from the world and the devils' writings on our heart, will make the pablum be more palatable, more enjoyed, more beneficial so we can grow faster to get to the meat...
  3. murjahel

    murjahel Senior Veteran


    There are many 'false chefs' trying to prepare meals for the saints... beware. John calls these false chefs, preparing pablum of poison, milk of bitterness, and meat of un-chew-ability... 

    The ‘antichrist’ is soon to come. We know this from many of the prophets’ words in the Bible. John is the only one who calls this person ‘antichrist’, and many other names are used for him.

    The one with the title ‘antichrist’ has many, then and still now, acting in ways similar to him. John says they are ‘antichrists’.
    I John 2:18
    "Little children, it is the last time, and as ye have heard that the antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."

    False 'chefs' preparing evil doctrines, bitter condemnations of true food of the Lord, are abundant in our midst in the last days.

    John, who was: spiritually aware of the age, knowledgeable of the signs, cognizant of the current fulfillment of prophetic truth, and definitely in tune with the Spirit of Truth, warns and alerts us to beware the ones who act in conjunction with the scheme of the Antichrist himself.

    John calls them "antichrists".

    Just as God wants us to live as Christ, having His mind, His nature, His works, so the devil seeks to have many of his cohorts among mankind to be like the Antichrist.

    John tells us that "many antichrists...
    have already arisen."
    They were already preparing meals
    of untruth, of distortion, of deception,
    of attack, of ... etc etc.. in the days
    of John, and in these last days of the last days,
    they are still preparing meals that can kill.

    There are still many today. These people embody the anti-Christian spirit, and are like forerunners of the eschatological antichrist. The falsehoods of these ‘many antichrists’ are prevalent in our time. John who was the one most close to the Lord, and is also the one who is most concerned with warning us against those who are farthest from this Jesus that John loved so much.

    "Antichrist" comes from two words, "anti" which when used with another word, means "opposition to", and "opposition in the guise of similarity."

    The "antichrists" of all ages are people who have assumed the guise of Christ, tried to assume the authority of the Lord, counterfeited Christ, tried to rival Christ, have usurped the position of Christ, and have been adversarial to Christ. Jesus warned of such "false christs".

    Mark 13:22-23 (ESV)
    22 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect.
    23 But be on guard; I have told you all things beforehand.

    And yet today, we find that many Christians are shocked at the idea that there are ‘antichrists’ already in the church, in the world.

    In John's day, these ones who had such incentive to counter the Lord’s teachings themselves, that they spread heretical doctrines that threatened Christianity.

    John was adamantly opposed to not only their doctrine but also to their presence. The Antichrist himself cannot be revealed until we, the saints, have been removed from this earth by the rapture. Yet, too often, unlike John, we have not hindered the other "antichrist" personalities within the congregations of today. John did not warn us of their presence for us just to watch them work, we are to hinder their work, preach the truth, wake up the church.

    John not only taught the truth, he attacked the error and the heresy, and he warned strongly against these "antichrists", these false chefs..

    These "antichrists" "went out from us", according to I John 2:19. This indicates that they had before claimed to be Christians, were pretending to be part of the faith. John says that "they were not of us", indicating that their membership in the congregations was outward, and they were Christians in name only. There are many who the devil has placed within the Christian circles, and have made great play-acting imitation of saints.

    When the Word of God is preached in uncompromising, rhema filled fashion, the Spirit of Truth begins to work. Then these hypocrites begin to be uneasy, and will depart. They depart from the midst of the revival. John says that "if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us" (2:19) Continuance, in the presence of the revival of the Spirit of Truth is a mark of true discipleship.

    John 8:31
    "...If ye continue in My word, then are ye My disciples indeed. And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free..."

    The reason the Holy Spirit of Truth drives out such "antichrists" is that He is manifesting truth, and His work of manifesting truth, and uncovering deceit and falsehood.

    There are many congregations that need such a move of the Spirit of Truth. These congregations have unrecognized "antichrists" who offend and cause harm.

    The revelation of truth from the mouths of the Lord’s disciples make these ‘antichrists’ very unsettled. They squirm, yell ouch, attack the preachers of the Word, try to counter with false doctrine, and if revival continues anyhow, they depart.

    God has always desired to make manifest the ones who are fake, false, and hypocritical. Somehow, someway, God seeks to unmask these ones, but the sleeping , apathetic saints hinder such attempts of the Lord. Here in the time of John, the group was exposed and left the revival congregation.
    "they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us..." (2:19)

    These "antichrists" have distinctive persuasions.

    They are LIARS.

    They tell the ultimate lie, that Jesus is not the Christ, that is the Sent One, the Chosen One of heaven Who was sent by God to earth to provide redemption for mankind. This is a lie that is more horrible than any other they could tell. Some teach that Jesus was a mere human Who had the "spirit of the Christ" come upon Him at His baptism, and left Him before the crucifixion. To deny the Lord, is the same as denying the Father.

    I John 2:23
    "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father..."

    Some want to assume the authority of Jesus. They want to be the mediator between God and men. They want to speak what God wants you to know, and not want it tested by the Word, or confirmed personally by the Holy Spirit. Christ Jesus is the only access to the Father, and those who deny Him, denigrate Him, or seek to down-grade His Person, will lose the Father.

    John 14:6
    "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me."

    I John 2:23 b
    "He that confesses the Son hath the Father also."

    They have an evil purpose.

    The intention of these "antichrists" is to seduce the people of God from the truth. They intend to mislead.

    I John 2:26
    "These things have I written unto you, concerning them that seduce you."

    Their intention is to deceive, and they enjoy such deceptions. Their joy is increased if they can frustrate, aggravate, and disturb the saints. They start debates, create hassles, and split friendships, and enjoy it. Most saints in congregations have seen such events often, and our desire to believe that these "antichrists" are "Christian" allow us to be deceived.

    Yet, we, the believers, have security.

    I John 2:26-28
    "But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you; but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him."

    This "anointing" is the same word as "unction" in verse 20. It is from the Greek word "chrisma". We are to have this anointing "upon us." John is saying that the true anointing is upon the saints, not the "antichrists" who may claim (as did the gnostics) some great anointing.

    When John says that "ye have not need that any man teach you" does not mean we do not have the ministry of teaching still in effect today, but it means that our real Teacher is the Holy Spirit, and He may use some with the gift of teaching to aid His work, but it is His work, not the human teachers. All teaching from human teaching should be tested by the Spirit and by His written Word. We can know "all" the things we need to know, via this Great Teacher, the Spirit, Who abides within and upon us.

    Search the Word, and keep the Word as the authority.
    Maintain a union and a fellowship relationship with the Lord. We are told many times in Scripture to "abide in Him." It is an imperative.

    The truth will flow from the mouths, from the pens, from the keyboards, of the ones following the Lord. The lies and heresies of the devil will come from others. We are to preach the Truth, His name is Jesus, His Word is written for us to study, and to then preach. The Spirit of Truth will anoint our efforts, and give us spiritual gifts with which to do our ministries.

    So, can you imagine a world today full of antichrists? Well, you don’t really need to ‘imagine’... open your eyes, they are in many places.

    These false chefs want to prepare our meals, but our real TEACHER is the Holy Spirit, and all we hear from others, is to be tested by the Word, and by the Holy Spirit...
  4. murjahel

    murjahel Senior Veteran

    Because some 'bad' meals have been prepared and fed to congregations that have made them sick with heresy, some flee away from all food. Surely, a tainted meal can make one wiser, in watching what they eat after that, but should not make us not eat.

    This is Halloween day, a day when the devils celebrate, it is now being called the 'gay Christmas' but not meant to honor Christ, only the homosexual. Witches, devils, and the like are glorified, and Jesus is nigh to forgotten on this day.

    Some are afraid or ignorant of the satanic ritual abuse, and stories and twistings of truth have come from satanic groups, making some to do everything but award medals to the Satanists, figuring they have been mistreated and lied about...

    Well there have been a few instances of mistreatment of innocent victims of 'mass hysteria'. However, true Christians are not wanting to burn witches at a stake, or drive a stake into the heart of a vampire. No, we who are truly saved, want them to find Jesus, and want to save their victims from the ones who do not get saved.

    One instance of incorrect action toward others was seen in the Salem witch trials.

    Whenever one hears of Salem, one of the first thoughts is of the witch trials in which the Puritans killed a number of girls, women, and even some men. Many were persecuted, perhaps a few may have been witches, but evidence suggests that probably none of them truly were.

    Numbers vary, but 20 to 25 were killed. Up to 250 were imprisoned and awaiting the inevitable hanging death, when they were finally freed, and the accusers repented. The hanging was a ‘short drop’ hanging, which was far more excruciating. The ladder, with a rope around a tree limb, was removed, and the drop was short, creating a gradual strangulation that could take several minutes to kill the victim. In a ‘long drop’ hanging, the neck is snapped, and death comes more quickly. They were not ‘burned at the stake’ as was done in the thousands who were killed as witches in Europe at the same time. Therefore, this event in Salem was minor in comparison to what was happening elsewhere in the world.

    In 1688, Samuel Parris came to preach in Salem, and in November of 1689, became the pastor of Salem. He, his wife, his daughter Betty, and his niece Abigail Williams then moved into the town. He had a slave, Tituba, a Native American, also came.

    All seemed fine until Betty, age 9, started behaving strangely.

    There were fits, hallucinations, convulsions, bizarre skin sensations of something crawling upon her. She often just stared into space, and sometimes hid under furniture. Her sharp pains and wailing were unbearable.

    The doctor tried to diagnose, and could not determine a medical cause, and then tried to treat the symptoms, both efforts were failures. He finally announced that the condition were likely supernatural, demonic, or witchcraft.

    Abigail, the niece of Samuel Parris also began to have the same behaviors, and this strengthened the idea that it was witchcraft

    Today there are many variations of witchcraft ideology, but in that time, witchcraft was defined as a deliberate attempt to communicate with satan, for the purpose of selling one’s soul to him, in trade for supernatural powers.

    Stories of some doing this soul selling to satan were popular stories to share in England of that time, and now even in the small village of Salem, Massachusetts.

    It was believed in that time, that witches used young girls to do their sorcery work. Therefore, the strange behavior of these two young girls fueled speculation. When Ann Putman, age 11 also showed the same symptoms, the general concensus was that witches, and the devil were at work in their community.

    Tituba, a native American, had related tales of voodoo, omens, and spirit beings to the other girls. So, on February 29, 1692, the community forced the girls to name who was behind their strange behavior. Under compulsion, and with directed insinuations, they named Tituba, Sarah Osborne and Sarah Good. These women had ceased fellowship in the Puritan church about a year prior, having felt alienated due to the feelings regarding women. Therefore, they were easy targets of the men seeking to find who would do such a thing to these youngsters. They were arrested, and the Salem witch trials began.

    After strongly denials of any witchcraft, Tituba finally confessed being responsible for the strange behavior of the girls. Her confession was only gotten to end the severe beating being given to her by her owner. She also implicated Sarah Good and Sarah Osborn in the witchcraft, but they maintained their innocence.

    At least one man, a Giles Corey, was killed when he refused to plead guilty to witchcraft.

    One by one, people were accused, and each beaten and tortured to name at least one more, and hoping to alleviate the beating, they one by one accused another. Ann Putman accused Martha Corey, Abigail Williams said Rebecca Nurse was responsible for her. Even Dorothy Good, Sarah Good's 4 year old daughter, was interrogated. Her obvious fear of the events convinced them she was also guilty, and was arrested and jailed for 8 months.

    Mass hysteria caused much finger pointing, and any unusual behavior was deemed evidence of witchcraft and guilty verdicts were the norm. The ‘mass hysteria caused many fearful ones to have ‘witch dreams’, dreams of others participating in witchcraft, and visitations of others in witches costume. These were only hysteria engendered dreams, but they were used as evidence in the trials. At least 18 were executed using very suspect evidence. In October of 1692, dream and visions were prohibited as evidence. When Governor Phipps’ own wife was accused and suspected, he replaced the court that had been finding all guilty that were accused, and the replacement court then found only 3 guilty of the next 56 accused. In May of 1693, all remaining in prison under charges were released.

    Mass hysteria has a process and slows down over time. Rational thinking began to replace the hurry to judgment. Some of the victims had been respectable, church going, prayerful members of the Puritan church.

    Sometime later, those who had conducted the trials, some who had made accusations, apologized for the events, and confessed their own sins during the hysteria.

    The ones still alive, released now from prisons, were in 1711, along with the heirs of those who had died, given compensation.

    What was the real cause of the symptoms of the original accusations? Studies have been conducted that reveal the weird behaviors could have been the result of ‘ergot poisoning’. The ‘ergot’ likely came from a fungus of infested rye. Ergot is caused by the fungus, Clavicepspurpurea, and it affects rye and other grasses. A yellow colored mucus with fungal spores grows on rye when certain weather conditions are present. The weather conditions of 1691 were conducive to the growth of the mucus, and the stored rye, that was the most staple crop of Salem, would likely have had these spores to infect the children.

    Ergot poisoning affects the central nervous system, causing contractions of smooth muscles, such as those in the walls of veins and arteries, and of internal organs. This can lead to convulsions, spasms, vomiting, delusions, hallucinations, and crawling sensations on the skin. The spread of the condition was not due to being near another victim, but from exposure to the infested rye.

    So, these puritans thought they were loving and kind Christians, but in the heat of hysteria, they committed horrible acts.

    We are not to assume because those were not even witches at all, that all witchcraft and Satanism is ended. No, and it is not just puritans who make victims of innocent people.


    Among 2,709 members of the American Psychological Association who responded to a poll, 2,292 cases of ritual abuse were reported.
    Bottoms, Shaver, & Goodman, 1993

    At a 1991 Utah workshop, thirty-two mental health therapists reported treating 360 separate survivors of ritual abuse.
    By early 1992 the following statement had been signed by sixty-six Utah therapists:
    "We, the undersigned mental health professional, have each heard memories of ritual abuse recounted by some patients, as have therapists across the nation. We believe these patients’ allegations to have basis in fact. We are dismayed by accusations that therapists brainwash their patients or collude to create a mental health problem where none existed. We urge our public officials to take appropriate actions to counter ritual crimes."
    The names on the signed petition, affirming the above statement, are given in the 1992 report of the Utah Governor’s Task Force on Ritual Abuse.
    A. Horton, B. Harrison & B. Johnson, editors, Confronting Abuse, 1993

    Of the sixty victims with whom I have met, fifty-three are female and seven are male. Eight are children.
    The abuse occurred in the following places: Utah (37), Idaho (3), California (4), Mexico (2), and other places (14). Fifty-three victims are currently living in the state of Utah .
    All sixty individuals are members of the Church.
    Forty-five victims allege witnessing and/or participating in human sacrifice.
    The majority were abused by relatives, often their parents.
    All have developed psychological problems and most have been diagnosed as having multiple personality disorder or some other form of dissociative disorder.
    Bishop Glenn L. Pace, " LDS Church Report to the Strengthening Church Members Committee," 1990

    In 1992 alone, Childhelp USA logged 1,741 calls pertaining to ritual abuse, Monarch Resources of Los Angeles logged approximately 5,000, Real Active Survivors tallied nearly 3,600, Justus Unlimited of Colorado received almost 7,000, and Looking Up of Maine handled around 6,000. Even allowing for some of these calls to have been made by people who assist survivors but are not themselves survivors, and for some survivors to have called more than one helpline or made multiple calls to the same helpline, these numbers suggest that at a minimum there must be tens of thousands of survivors of ritual abuse in the United States.
    Catherine Gould, Cultural and Economic Barriers to Protecting Children from Ritual Abuse and Mind Control, 1995

    Published results of a nationwide study of substantiated reports of sexual abuse in day care involving 1,639 young child victims. Thirteen percent of these cases were found to involve ritual abuse.
    Finkelhor, William and Burns, 1988

    In 1993, Boon and Draijer described the clinical phenomena of 71 Dutch DID patients. Follow up data on this cohort of patients indicate that 38.8% of the patients had mentioned some form of SRA in the course of treatment
    Boon & Draijer, 1993b.

    These patients lived in different regions in the Netherlands and they were treated by 19 different clinicians.
    Boon and Draijer 1993b

    In this study, spontaneously given accounts of SRA and drawings on the subject showed a striking resemblance to those of North American patients.
    Onno van der Hart, "Reports on Ritual Abuse in European Countries: A Clinician’s Perspective," 1998

    So there are victims of some who call themselves to be Christians, and victims of those who claim to be of the devil, or a pagan... Do not swallow the spiritual food of either group. We are Christians, and our diet should consist of the 'fruit of the Spirit'... love, joy, peace, longsuffering, etc. and we are here to help the victims, and discourage the victimizers, whoever they be.
  5. probinson

    probinson Legend

    Word of Faith
    This is from an article published by the Christian Research Institute in June 2009 (SRA is an acronym for Satanic Ritual Abuse);
    ...When SRA stories initially surfaced in the early 1980s — first with Michelle Remembers, then followed by the McMartin preschool case in Southern California and the Bakersfield, California and Jordan, Minnesota cases — many journalists, law enforcement personnel, and mental health professionals tended to believe that SRA might exist. We know that horrible people do terrible things to others, that people often conspire, that there really are Satanists, and that abuse sometimes happens within some sort of ritual context. However, when dozens of stories multiplied into hundreds and then thousands of stories, none of which produced a single piece of corroborative evidence, some former believers became healthy skeptics. Supervisory Special Agent Kenneth Lanning, of the FBI’s Behavioral Science Unit, has investigated over 300 SRA reports and has yet to find corroborative evidence...

    ...There is still no substantial, compelling evidence that SRA stories and conspiracy theories are true. Alternate hypotheses more reasonably explain the social, professional, and personal dynamics reflected in this contemporary satanic panic. The tragedy of broken families, traumatized children, and emotionally incapacitated adults provoked by SRA charges is needless and destructive. Careful investigation of the stories, the alleged victims, and the proponents has given us every reason to reject the satanic conspiracy model in favor of an interpretation consistent with reason and truth. The Bible tells us that we serve the God of truth (Isa. 65:16). Paul exhorts us to test everything, clinging only to what is good (2 Thess. 5:21-22), and commends the Bereans for testing what he taught by God’s Word; that is, by what was known to be true (Acts 17:11). Peter warns us by example not to be seduced by cunningly devised myths (2 Pet. 1:16). God commands us not to bear false witness against another (Deut. 5:20). In Matthew 18:15-19, Jesus warns us not to bring any accusation of sin against a fellow Christian without evidence and witnesses. God’s judgment against those who do evil is according to truth (Rom. 2:2). Should our judgment be based on fallacies, nonevidence, subjectivism, and worldly wisdom? Let us be committed to compassion for victims and biblical judgment for victimizers, but let us not become victimizers by faulty judgment and false accusations. With sound wisdom and biblically based discernment, we need have no fear of a monolithic satanic conspiracy (Prov. 3:23-26).

    Source: The Hard Facts about Satanic Ritual Abuse - Christian Research Institute
  6. murjahel

    murjahel Senior Veteran


    In satanic circles tonight, as they gather in their church, they are likely singing songs like 'What a friend we have in....'

    I imagine that my name is not the one at the end of that stanza... they likely hate me and my message on their abuse... but whose name could they insert there???

    Certainly, not the name of Jesus... for He never defended satan or his cohorts so He was hated by them too, and I only want to be in churches that sing 'Jesus' as the name in that song...

  7. murjahel

    murjahel Senior Veteran


    I would like chapter and verse from 'Lanning' for his statement... for there is according the Bible a 'narrow way and a broad way', one leads to life, the other leads to eternal death. So, if we who believe in the narrow vs broad way are all 'paranoids' then they need to read the satanic Bible for the Bible of the Lord Jesus says there are two ways...

    Matthew 7:13-14 (KJV)
    13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
    14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

    Deuteronomy 30:15 (KJV)
    15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

    1 Kings 18:21 (KJV)
    21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.

    Matthew 25:46 (KJV)
    46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    John 5:28-29 (KJV)
    28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
    29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    Galatians 6:7-8 (KJV)
    7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
    8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

    so, if the paranoid are those who """you are either with them or against them. You are either part of the solution or part of the problem""" then He is calling God to be 'paranoid'...

    God gives us one choice... resurrection of life, and calls the other one choice evil..

    punishment or life eternal.. follow God or follow baal... there is a choice between the two and God calls us to His choice for us... and we can accept it or not...

    I am not paranoid... God is not either... this man 'lanning' is way off in his definition of paranoid... I do not think I will put trust in anything he says, his lie there tells me a lot about him....

    Last edited: Oct 31, 2013
  8. probinson

    probinson Legend

    Word of Faith
    You sure are quick to call people liars for someone who seems to hate the term so much.

    The truth is, all of the scriptures you just posted have NOTHING AT ALL to do with those who don't believe in the epidemic problems of SRA you've attempted to portray absent any real evidence. Choosing Jesus Christ as Lord is the "narrow way". And I would absolutely agree that when it comes to "Choose this day who you will serve", you have one of two choices. However, believing the conspiracy theories of SRA does not even belong in the same discussion as who we will choose to serve.

    Clearly, Lanning is not calling God paranoid, no matter how much you try to twist his words and post unrelated scriptures to make such a damning, false accusation against a man you don't even know appear justified. He is saying that people who don't buy into the sensationalized hype of SRA are often classified as the enemy by virtue of disagreeing with those who believe the hype.

    As another poster put it quite well on the other thread where we were discussing this same thing, you are quick to agree with whatever supports your viewpoint and quick to dismiss that which disproves it. Your quick dismissal of Lanning, an FBI investigator in the behavioral science unit with firsthand knowledge of over 300 SRA investigations, demonstrates that handily.

    Last edited: Oct 31, 2013
  9. FreeinChrist

    FreeinChrist CF Advisory team Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter


    This thread has been cleaned.
    Please don't make it personal.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2013