The Only Rules Left: no harm or steal

[seeker4Christ]

I have been thinking about how USA society is falling apart morally, and also in other countries - there are less and less moral laws on the books. The only rules that remain are this: Don't steal or harm.

These are the baseline rules that I suspect most people can agree on, even most moral relativists.

Details:
8. Don't steal from somebody or an organization, company, government, or investors if they are able to complain. *

6. Don't harm (or kill - an extreme form of harm) somebody if they or their family complain. **

(Unless you can get away with it)

* copying may be okay.

** Exceptions where harm or kill is okay to some people (not me): as a punishment, in self defense, in defense of another, for government, for a company, in war, killing unborn children okay, or embryo/fetus - for "parts" / stem-cells or "research" (cannibalize embryo or fetus is okay), harming by polluting air food office water ozone ground ground-water homes greenhouse-effect for profit is okay, radiation pollution okay, noise pollution okay, advertising pollution okay, selling bad and/or addictive products for profit okay, harming/extintifying any non-human life form okay, harming via false or harmful/sinful media okay, harming by censoring Jesus and the Bible truths okay, some would add more to this list.

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

I have been thinking about how USA society is falling apart morally...

When I hear of people talking about our ongoing decay as a society I always wonder at what day and age do they think everything was better?

How about you, seeker? What age do you prefer we return to as a nation? The 1950's? The 40's? The 1820's?

Where is this golden age?

 

[Edge]

Wait, what's the problem again? Last time I checked, the US was all about personal liberty, except when it infringes on the rights of others. Legislating morality has always been a pointless exercise, anyway.

 

[seeker4Christ]

Wait, what's the problem again? Last time I checked, the US was all about personal liberty, except when it infringes on the rights of others. Legislating morality has always been a pointless exercise, anyway.

It is just an observation. No harm and no steal are also moral laws - do you suggest we ditch those as well?

 

[seeker4Christ]

When I hear of people talking about our ongoing decay as a society I always wonder at what day and age do they think everything was better?

How about you, seeker? What age do you prefer we return to as a nation? The 1950's? The 40's? The 1820's?

Where is this golden age?

I have not studied history enough to know. But from my own lifetime's experience, I have noticed that from the 70's onward TV had become more and more sex-crazed, violence-filled and false, and I think that TV has been a powerful propaganda machine pushing for more fornication and more violence and it has succeeded it its evil goals. I would guess that people tended to be more moral before TV really had much power - so the 50's were probably better.

 

[Philosoft]

It is just an observation. No harm and no steal are also moral laws - do you suggest we ditch those as well?

They may be consistent with certain moral precepts, but they are not strictly "moral laws." The government protects us from theft and murder because we generally agree that those things profoundly infringe on our rights, and protection from things that profoundly infringe on our rights is the primary reason to implement government in the first place.

 

[SUNSTONE]

20 years ago Bill Mahr was on the Johnny Carson Show when he said the word "****"(I think thats the word).
That word is no big deal today, but at the time it was the first time that word was ever said on TV.

You can see a trend on tv over the years. With cable tv pumping out program after program, it is getting harder for programs to make the ratings. This has caused writers and producers to go to "shock" tv.

 

[SUNSTONE]

You can't even say that word (it starts with the letter "c". Another word for it is dung).

 

[Philosoft]

I would guess that people tended to be more moral before TV really had much power - so the 50's were probably better.

The 1950s? Before mixed-race marriages were legal? During the height of McCarthyism?

 

[seeker4Christ]

They may be consistent with certain moral precepts, but they are not strictly "moral laws." The government protects us from theft and murder because we generally agree that those things profoundly infringe on our rights, and protection from things that profoundly infringe on our rights is the primary reason to implement government in the first place.

How do you know what your rights are? What is your source?

 

[seeker4Christ]

The 1950s? Before mixed-race marriages were legal? During the height of McCarthyism?

I am not saying that the 1950's were perfect.

 

[Philosoft]

How do you know what your rights are? What is your source?

Is this a rhetorical question? I would suggest the Constitution for starters.

 

[praying]

I have not studied history enough to know. But from my own lifetime's experience, I have noticed that from the 70's onward TV had become more and more sex-crazed, violence-filled and false, and I think that TV has been a powerful propaganda machine pushing for more fornication and more violence and it has succeeded it its evil goals. I would guess that people tended to be more moral before TV really had much power - so the 50's were probably better.

Better for who, and based whose idea of better?

 

[ACougar]

Ahh, the good old days when whites and blacks drank from seperate water fountains, when it was frowned on for a women to have a career, when followers of alternative religions and homosexuals had good reason to fear for thier lives. When it was ok to drink and drive, beat your wife and hate people differant than you.

BTW, I agree with you that there is way too much violence and vulgarity in popular entertainment. At the same I challenge your vision of the "good old days" be they in the 50's, 70's or any other decade. We should be looking forward, striving to create a society that reflects our ideals, not gazing longingly into the past.

I have not studied history enough to know. But from my own lifetime's experience, I have noticed that from the 70's onward TV had become more and more sex-crazed, violence-filled and false, and I think that TV has been a powerful propaganda machine pushing for more fornication and more violence and it has succeeded it its evil goals. I would guess that people tended to be more moral before TV really had much power - so the 50's were probably better.

 

[praying]

I have not studied history enough to know.

Well if you haven't studied hsitry enough to know, how can you know of this great moral decay.

What I think people mistake for the great moral decay, and I do think there truly has been some moral decay, is the openess of society now. In the 1950's gays were still having sex, people were fornicating, priests were molesting kids, women were being raped, sexial harassment existed at the jobs, to name a few moral degrations but it was all done behind closed doors, kind of like Bill Clinton's dont ask don't tell policy. As long as it was not in your face well, as the young folks say...it was all good

 

[SUNSTONE]

I kept trying to tell the cop, that it was MY RIGHT!!! to do 90mph in a school zone, with no seat belt on. Then I preceded to give him a hard time, because I wasn't stealing anything, nor hurting anyone. But when he pulled a gun on me, I killed him in self defense.

I can't believe the nerve of that cop, trying to tell me that these rules, were for the benefit of the country.

Don't get me started on taxs! Why should my money go for some road construction?? I never asked for that road I drive on every week. Building roads, leads to building stop signs, and stop lights, and all sorts of signs and exits, that I never asked for. What gives the government the right to tell me how I should spend my own money???

And why can't I sleep with a well developed minor??? I'm not hurting no one, I'm not stealing from anyone. Which leads me to insest and multiple wives. I can't make up my mind, so why can't I just have everything I want, I mean this is America right? I have rights, dag nabbit!!!!!

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

I have not studied history enough to know. But from my own lifetime's experience, I have noticed that from the 70's onward TV had become more and more sex-crazed, violence-filled and false, and I think that TV has been a powerful propaganda machine pushing for more fornication and more violence and it has succeeded it its evil goals. I would guess that people tended to be more moral before TV really had much power - so the 50's were probably better.

TV sucks and I don't use it to measure the morality of our world. I simply don't watch it (Simpsons aside) and recommend that course of action to others who don't like what they see.

The 1950's are a time that mark practiced and accepted racism and sexism. Spousal abuse was common, and was thought to have been nobody's business. And just like today they had their fair share of fornication, drunkards, adultery, whatever.

Remember, prostitution is the world's oldest proffession.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Well if you haven't studied hsitry enough to know, how can you know of this great moral decay.

What I think people mistake for the great moral decay, and I do think there truly has been some moral decay, is the openess of society now. In the 1950's gays were still having sex, people were fornicating, priests were molesting kids, women were being raped, sexial harassment existed at the jobs, to name a few moral degrations but it was all done behind closed doors, kind of like Bill Clinton's dont ask don't tell policy. As long as it was not in your face well, as the young folks say...it was all good

How many were doing these things? You can have all the desire in the world, but if you don't know a gay person, how could you have gay sex?

Porn is a good topic for this.
If porn was illegal, then alot of people would go without porn. Sure there would be some "law" breakers, who would make it. But it certianly wouldn't be in widespread use, as it is today.
But porn is legal, and there is a high demand for "young" women (18 yrs old) to produce this type of material.

So if you support porns legalization, the chances go up, that someones daughter(maybe yours) could get caught up in this type of business. The money is fast and easy.
And it may not be "your" daughter, but for sure, it is somebodys daughter doing these things.

 

[Periann]

I think humankind has a made huge leap from where we were. And I agree with whoever said legislating morality has always been pointless, like history has proved time and time again.

Why cant we just thank God that we have all the great benefits that living in the present times offer us and not go into discussions about how it was better back in the day??? Truth is, if anyone had the choice to go back and you chose it, well then I think you would be alone.

Man has a sinful nature not an inherently good nature, so it just makes that sense that with the more leeway in today's society, people let their true selves show.

I for one dont really care and am going to live it up...in a good way of course. You gotta take the bad with the good.

 

[praying]

How many were doing these things? You can have all the desire in the world, but if you don't know a gay person, how could you have gay sex?

Porn is a good topic for this.
If porn was illegal, then alot of people would go without porn. Sure there would be some "law" breakers, who would make it. But it certianly wouldn't be in widespread use, as it is today.
But porn is legal, and there is a high demand for "young" women (18 yrs old) to produce this type of material.

So if you support porns legalization, the chances go up, that someones daughter(maybe yours) could get caught up in this type of business. The money is fast and easy.
And it may not be "your" daughter, but for sure, it is somebodys daughter doing these things.

How many were doing these things probably the same relative to the population that are doing them now, sin has always been here and always will be, you can only make a conscious decision to walk the path of light with Jesus and pray that as many as possible will join you in your journey.

I abhor pornography, the exploitation of the human body. If a person of legal age seeks to do this however, I can not stop them. The constitution guaruntees the right to free speech, it doesn't guaruntee I will always like what is said.