The Old Testament ~vs~ The New Testament

[Nick_Loves_Abba]

I'm confused on this matter. Now here's things that I've just thought were. Please correct me on afew of my assumptions ok. I understand I'm going to be wrong. But thats why I'm here, to learn!

1) The Old Testament is the Old Law, and Jesus came and updated the Old Law and made it better. Thus, the only reason we have the Old Testament right now is to learn of Biblical History and to learn the morals of very good stories.

2) We are no longer under the Old Law because now, sense we have Jesus as our savior, we are under the New Law. (please explain to me what the NEw Law and Old Law is)

If I get more questions or assumptions I'll post them in this thread.

*Waits for answers silently*

 

[Didymus]

the Old Law was about animal sacrifices and obeying a whole bunch of rules-read leviticus. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice . His death opened the way to God. This is why at His death the curtain that hid the Holy of Holies in the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.
The Old testament explains why we needed a savior in the first place and also gives the history of the Jewish people
I know of some churches that preach only the New Testament bbut it God had nt felt we needed it He would not have included it in our Bible

 

[ljmandtina]

Christ didn't come to do away with the law. He came to show us how the law is for our benefit, not to keep us from enjoying life or as a prescription for getting to Heaven. The concept of wanting salvation to avoid Hell does not mesh with why Christ came to restore our relationship with the Father.

Christ's standard is much higher than the Mosaic law's standard. If man can't keep all the commandments, how then can we meet Christ's standards? How did Christ treat man? He forgave the adulteress and the thief, the tax collector, the demon possessed...but He had little tolerance for the religious who knew the law but didn't practice it. He had no time for those who refused to love people who were different or who were not as educated or successful. It wasn't the adulteress that had Christ crucified, it was the ones who chose to live by the law.

The answer is not in trying to be good and relying on grace to carry us when we fall. The answer is living our lives in a manner than God approves of. He loves us, He wants us focussed on Him and not going our own way and getting hurt. He's the ultimate Daddy, and He's proud when we grow spiritually. But He will not disown us just because we get distracted by the world. Christ made salvation as simple as possible without forcing us to give up our free will. We can choose to live under the law, or we can choose to live like Christ.

 

[Blessed-one]

Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that i have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; i have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

no one but only Jesus can perfectly obey God's law (the spirit of the law).
The old laws are tedious, with many rules, but the new law is:

Jeremiah 31:33
"I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts ."

the new law involves the working of the Holy Spirit which constantly reminds us of our wrongdoings and advise us on what to do.

 

[rkbo]

Jesus did in fact fullfil the Law. The Law was all about bringing people to an understanding that they can not keep the Law. They need a saviour. The needed a Messiah. If anyone could keep the Law then they would not need Jesus. All are sinners, past, present, and future. Jesus is the only one that has keept the Law and the Law was pointing toward him as the one to fullfil it. The OT shows us how God feels about sin. It is a very serious thing......Now I will leave you with these verses as a place to understand about our new covenant.
Col 2:8-3:1
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

CHAPTER 3

(KJV)

 

[Brian L]

which he also calls the "Royal Law", no they are not updates. They are a spiritual counterpart to the "law of the ordinances of the flesh", designed to demonstrate to humanity that they are spiritually dead and require a savior. In the context of the OT, we now have a 2000-3500 year old document that humanity has had in its possession for this specific purpose. And, btw, the OT illustrates the NT., and we would be academically and theologically lost without it to understand the NT.

2) We are no longer under the Old Law because now, sense we have Jesus as our savior, we are under the New Law. (please explain to me what the NEw Law and Old Law is)

No, we are under no law at all, because Paul declares "by any kind of law is no flesh justified". When Paul refers to "the Law", he is speaking of the codices of the Mosaic Law that define God's covenant to Israel. However you also find (not in the English translations) a simple reference to "law", any kind of religious law OR nomos could more properly be translated "principle". English versions follow the tradition of the KJV and refuse to do this either. But entymologically this is a common usage of the term nomos. We are under the spiritual principle of Grace, love, truth, that we must learn and exercise in the filling of the HS. We are under no set codices of ritualistic law that governed Israel.
MORALITY IS FOR THE HUMAN RACE. The 10 commandments enucleate this . But BEING MORAL DOES NOT IMPLY BEING SPIRITUAL. THOUGH BEING SPIRITUAL DOES IMPLY BEING MORAL.. If Christianity would just learn this last phrase, you will be light years ahead of most Christians. ANd they might even unlearn a little legalism and religion. - God help us!
Brian L.

 

[Nick_Loves_Abba]

Wow thanks alot guys. My questions have been answered 120%.

I also just realized, if we didn't have the OT, there would be little or no proof that Jesus was who he said he was.

Thanks again.

 

[Brian L]

I have often wondered about the obligation the Gentile has to the Jew expressed in the phrase "to the Jew first and also to the Gentile" , which Paul repeats several times. Some pastors have gone so far as to declare the Jew as racially superior in that they are the newest race as demonstrated by their unparalleled successes in life - and subsequent persecutions. Whether the Jews are successful because they are superior or whether they are superior because they are successful remains to be seen. THis tends to skip over their true historical role as the bearer of the law, the covenants, the glory and the blessings which are all a part of a puzzle I would like to piece together.


Ro 9:4 They are Israelites; theirs the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises;
5 theirs the patriarchs, and from them, according to the flesh, is the Messiah. God who is over all be blessed forever. Amen.


There is a very striking byproduct to these observations that seems to bring them all together. Namely, as the Lord sits at the right hand of the Father in resurrection body, the Lord is Jewish. Not only has he completely retained his identifiable humanity to the point where he was recognized AND caressed by Mary Magdalene, he EVEN retains his race as the Jewish Messiah.
Nevertheless, the resurrection body is regarded as a ?spiritual? body, vs. a natural body sown in corruption ? 1 Cor 15.

Whereas the blessings are Jewish, the cursing are for the human race ? under which we all suffered (to get started read the first line and then v19 of this quotation):

For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one."
13 "Their throat is an open tomb; With their tongues they have practiced deceit"; "The poison of asps is under their lips";
14 "Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness."
15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace they have not known."
18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes."
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Getting back to our theme, just as God used his son to intercede for us, so he used the Jew to intercede for humanity and suffer the awful history of apostasy that results from God coming directly to spiritually dead mankind. Instead of condemning all mankind with the law by bringing them to ?a knowledge of sin? - he condemned the Jew. Subsequently Israel became the focal point of the angelic conflict which would have been impossible for all of mankind to suffer and even more ridiculous to document through the Old Testament.

But it didn?t hurt the Jewish psyche one bit. They are as proud of their 2000 year old heritage as the day they retook Jerusalem. And oh by the way, for the Great Tribulation to occur ? both Israel and Jerusalem must exist first or there is a big gap between the Rapture and the Tribulation required for the regathering of Israel, the building of the Temple and the signing of the Covenant between Israel and the AntiChrist (which is also possible). (that little bit was courtesy of Dr. Arnold Fructenbaum : ?Footprints of the Messiah?)

Brian