The Old Testament originally does not believe in the existence of the soul.

[Rami77]

The Egyptians had their own doctrines about "the soul," but this isn't to say that the Egyptians were correct either theologically or even anthropologically, speaking in modern terms about it. We don't know that they were any more or less correct than were the later Greeks. We also would have to do some analytic study to see what conceptual differences the Egyptians had about the nature of the human soul in contrast to what 1st century Christians--or Jesus--had.

And why did God bring clarification in bit by bit? That's a good question, Rami, and I don't think there is an easy or clear answer to that.

I don't think we can say he [Moses?] was "clear" about it when 1) Man's being made from dust doesn't clearly and distinctly explain anything to the reader in a comprehensive manner, and 2) this statement isn't necessarily above or prior to all other statements about the nature of Humanity made in the Old Testament, or even in the book of Genesis itself. The place of Genesis isn't dependent on whether or not it mentions or explains the human soul. More specifically, what we find in the Old Testament theology alludes to the view that human beings are unified beings, so it would be more appropriate to say Moses likely thought of people as "being" souls rather than "having" souls in some distinct separateness.


Yes, I am familiar with the Golem story. Unfortunately, like the story of Frankenstein by Mary Shelley, I don't think the medieval Jewish myth of the Golem is relevant to the issue of whether or not we should value the Old Testament or even the book of Genesis.

While as Christians we aren't required to agree with all of the various tropes of Rabbinic/Talmudic Jewish thought, not to mention Kabbalistic thought, the place of Genesis as a part of the overall Tradition (or Canon) of biblical and also Christian thought is one that can't be readily jettisoned in a wholesale manner.

I think you're welcome to place the New Testament in priority over the Old Testament; I know I do. But I don't think we can simply dismiss it altogether since it provides the prophetic background and genetic identity by which the Messiah (i.e. Jesus) was to arrive into the World.

It would be unwise, and unscholarly, to evict the Old Testament from our biblical thought and erroneously take some view akin to that of Marcion.

Jesus has nothing to do with the OT god.

You have heard that it was said, '
YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT
ADULTERY';
but I say
"

We need to get rid of the old (OT.)

"
But no one puts a patch of unshrunk
cloth on an old garment; for the patch
pulls away from the garment, and a
worse tear results.
" (Matthew, 9:16)

Jesus is not a king (Messiah.) Jesus is the Son of God. He is God in the flesh.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

.thieves and robbers are liars ...

At least we know that this doesn't apply to Moses and the later Prophets of the Old Testament ...

 

[honey badger]

At least we know that this doesn't apply to Moses and the later Prophets of the Old Testament ...

yes it does ...

 

[Rami77]

.thieves and robbers are liars ...

And they steal roles that don't belong or are assigned to them.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Jesus has nothing to do with the OT god.

You have heard that it was said, '
YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT
ADULTERY';
but I say
"

We need to get rid of the old (OT.)

"
But no one puts a patch of unshrunk
cloth on an old garment; for the patch
pulls away from the garment, and a
worse tear results.
" (Matthew, 9:16)

Jesus is not a king (Messiah.) Jesus is the Son of God. He is God in the flesh.

I have to pay you a compliment, Rami. For a person who is from Yemen, your English sure is good.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

yes it does ...

It most certainly does not.

 

[Rami77]

This was before the fall.

Thank you very much for your participation.

 

[Rami77]

I have to pay you a compliment, Rami. For a person who is from Yemen, your English sure is good.

I didn't tell my story here. In 2005 I read the Gospels four times, and I understand nothing! After 18 years when I truly believed in Jesus everything became clear. I was not comfortable with the idea of reading it again; I have bad memories of reading it. To my surprise, everything became clear, very clear.

 

[honey badger]

It most certainly does not.

its not out of the order of God that those who came before Christ spoke of Him as a god we must come to by steps ( slow climb up Babel ) as in come to Him in our own name not His ... Jesus did away with this perception ...

 

[eleos1954]

"
Then the LORD God formed man of
dust from the ground, and breathed into
his nostrils the breath of life; and man
became a living being.
" (Genesis, 2:7)
It is clear from the verse above that the OT does not consider the existence of the Man's soul. The man was already formed before God breathed into his nostrils. The breath is not a soul; it was what animated the Man, like the washing machine animated by electricity, or like the Frankenstein monster animated by lightning. That explains why Judaism Originally does not believe in the afterlife.

Then why do Christians insist on holding on to such a book?

 

[honey badger]

I didn't tell my story here. In 2005 I read the Gospels four times, and I understand nothing! After 18 years when I truly believed in Jesus everything became clear. I was not comfortable with the idea of reading it again; I have bad memories of reading it. To my surprise, everything became clear, very clear.

hold to any truth over a day and it will become filled with worms ...

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I didn't tell my story here. In 2005 I read the Gospels four times, and I understand nothing! After 18 years when I truly believed in Jesus everything became clear. I was not comfortable with the idea of reading it again; I have bad memories of reading it. To my surprise, everything became clear, very clear.

That's wonderful that it became very clear to you. I can only imagine that what you experienced was something similar to what the first disiciples of Jesus experienced, something reflecting the following two verses:

Luke 24:27

And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.​

Luke 24:44

He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”​

 

[Lukaris]

It might be helpful to read the book: The Jewish Gospels by Daniel Boyarin. Mr Boyarin is an interesting scholar and Jewish believer. He clearly has an expansive understanding of his Jewish faith in that he considers Christianity a valid sect of Judaism and yet is not a Christian. The God of Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob is God as testified to in the whole Bible ( for ex. Isaiah 48:12-16 compare to John 1:1, John 14:26, John 15:26).

Amazon.com

 

[tampasteve]

Jesus has nothing to do with the OT god.

WHOA! Hard stop on that. The "OT god" is God the Father, part of the Trinity, Jesus can be found in the OT as well. Without the OT there is no NT.

You can't throw out the OT and still have Christianity, that is heresy. There is no "OT god", it is just God.

If Jesus is all I need to be saved, then why go to others?

Because it is not "others" it is still part of the whole, part of the religion and our shared faith.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

its not out of the order of God that those who came before Christ spoke of Him as a god we must come to by steps ( slow climb up Babel ) as in come to Him in our own name not His ... Jesus did away with this perception ...

Have you ever played Poker?

I'll see your "claim to perception" and raise you 1000 scholars ... that you're wrong.

 

[Rami77]

It wen

hold to any truth over a day and it will become filled with worms ...

I apologize; it went over my head.

 

[honey badger]

Have you ever played Poker?

I'll see your "claim to perception" and raise you 1000 scholars ... that you're wrong.

the bible has become one singular cohesive narrative to me and therefor i have no need of scholars ...

 

[Rami77]

That's wonderful that it became very clear to you. I can only imagine that what you experienced was something similar to what the first disiciples of Jesus experienced, something reflecting the following two verses:

Luke 24:27

And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.​

Luke 24:44

He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”​

That's wonderful that it became very clear to you.

Thank you very much. In the Welcome Center Forum, I expressed that I have many differences from the Christian mainstream. Though I find Luke's Gospel useful and putting it amongst the other gospels is right, Luck itself doesn't witness Jesus' presence on Earth.

I believe in the Trinity by the way. I believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Rami77]

WHOA! Hard stop on that. The "OT god" is God the Father, part of the Trinity, Jesus can be found in the OT as well. Without the OT there is no NT.

You can't throw out the OT and still have Christianity, that is heresy. There is no "OT god", it is just God.


Because it is not "others" it is still part of the whole, part of the religion and our shared faith.

Thank you for your participation.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

the bible has become one singular cohesive narrative to me and therefor i have no need of scholars ...

Goody for you! If you want to use a hand-saw on the limb upon which you're sitting, I can't stop you from doing so.

Enjoy the ride!