The office of the priest

[E.C.]

Per the request of Standing Up (or dare, depending on your outlook on life)...

This thread is about the office of the priest. There is in the New Testament Church an office of clergy which in the English language is called "priest".

The root of this word is actually from Greek. "Presbyter" was the name for a priest. I believe in English it was something like "Elder". Eventually somehow over time and language differences, it was "prests" (perhaps a nickname?) and now to what we in 2009 know and love as "priest".


Who here knows how this office began? What was its original purpose? What was the reason for being of this office?

Use whatever resources thine own tradition or Tradition permit whilst I prepare my foxhole.

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

In the book of Acts of the Apostles, the Apostles were made the first Bishops of the Church on the day of Pentecost. Their duties included preaching the word and administering the sacraments. In Acts Chapter 6 we read how some of the faithful were not receiving the sacraments because there were not enough Bishops to administer them. Thus the office of the deacon was instituted, and they were ordained with the laying of hands. (Acts 6:1-7.)

The office of the deacon was to administer the sacraments, but not to preach the word. This was soley for the Bishop.

Later on in the Church, the office of the priest was created to preach the word and administer the sacraments. The duties of the deacon were reduced.

In the Orthodox Church, the office of the priest is allow to administer ever sacrament except that of ordination. That belongs soley to the Bishop.

In the Catholic Church, the same rule applies, however the priest is not allowed to perform the sacrament of Holy Chrismation; this is reserved for the Bishop. In the Orthodox Church the priest is allowed to perform the sacrament of Chrismation.

The sacrament of Chrismation is when the individual is officially received into Christ's Holy Church, is annointed with holy oil, and the priest/Bishop prays for the Holy Spirit to come down upon the individual.

 

[ARBITER01]

Started by Jesus,..

Rev 1:6 and He made us to be a kingdom of priests unto His God and Father; unto Him be the glory and the dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Clocking in...

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Presbyteros

Presbyter - OrthodoxWiki

Question: Is the history as recorded by all the Ancient Churches important?

How many of them say that both an office of "Presbyteros" and the "Priesthood of Believers" are both valid beliefs. All of them. That is what they teach, it's not just one way or the other, it's both.

The Jewish nation was called a nation of Priests also... does that mean that everyone of them could perform the duties of the office of Priest? No. But they were members of a nation that had men in it that could. By association they were "a nation of Priests".

Same is true with all Christians who have been Baptized and recieved communion. By this we become a member of the nation of Priests. The Church is the new Israel.

Forgive me...

 

[Standing Up]

I'd clarify first that the NT "priest" position is identified as elder (presbyteros).

The Apostles also identified themselves as elders when they wrote the NT (3 John The elder unto the wellbeloved Gaius, whom I love in the truth. , 1Peter The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed). James said, call the elders. Paul said, ordain elders.


Here's a link to CARM on elders and offices (decide for yourself, not an endorsement per se) and let's see where this all goes:

Outline and Chart on Elders and Offices | Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry

 

[Standing Up]

--snip-
The Jewish nation was called a nation of Priests also... does that mean that everyone of them could perform the duties of the office of Priest? No. But they were members of a nation that had men in it that could. By association they were "a nation of Priests".

-snip-

May I see the OT reference to this "nation of Priests"?

 

[Rebekah30]

May I see the OT reference to this "nation of Priests"?

Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

 

[Standing Up]

Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Yes, are there any others?

 

[Polycarp1]

Presbyterios is simply the Greek word meaning "elder" -- adjective or noun describing a person. From the Pastoral Epistles it appears that the Apostles ordained the older men of the local church to govern it and lead in worship, including the Eucharist. Together they had oversight in the church, and the leader among them was the episcopos, the overseer. Via Latin and Old French, Presbyterios gave rise to English "priest" -- which was later extended to also mean hierius, the sacrificing priests of the Jews and pagan faiths. At the Reformation, owing to a rejection of some Catholic doctrine regarding the priesthood, the name given to the typical ordained clergyman was generally changed to "elder", a direct translation, or to "presbyter," a literal transliteration.

Small nitpick to Handmaiden of God's post: Eastern Rite Catholic priests chrismate, and Latin Rite oriests may validly chrismate an Eastern Rite child in the absence of a priest of the parents' rite -- a rare but not unheard of exception to the rule.

 

[Rebekah30]

Presbyteros

Presbyter - OrthodoxWiki

Question: Is the history as recorded by all the Ancient Churches important?

How many of them say that both an office of "Presbyteros" and the "Priesthood of Believers" are both valid beliefs. All of them. That is what they teach, it's not just one way or the other, it's both.

The Jewish nation was called a nation of Priests also... does that mean that everyone of them could perform the duties of the office of Priest? No. But they were members of a nation that had men in it that could. By association they were "a nation of Priests".

Same is true with all Christians who have been Baptized and recieved communion. By this we become a member of the nation of Priests. The Church is the new Israel.

Forgive me...

The office of Priest as in the old testament, one that sacrificed the bulls and the lambs for the forgiveness of sin, was fulfilled with Christ and his sacrifice. He is our High Priest, be offered the ultimate sacrifice and paid the debt for good.

We are still priests for we offer sacrifices pleasing to God, our very selves.
Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

We sacrifice ourselves daily for God, and the gospel.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

May I see the OT reference to this "nation of Priests"?

Exd 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.


Forgive me...

 

[Standing Up]

Exd 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.


Forgive me...

Peter nearly repeats Exo. 19:6:

But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

So, what happened after Ex. 19:6? Why does Hebrews tell us we have not come to Mt. Sinai, but to Mt. Zion?

And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that [was] in the camp trembled. ... (Ex. 20:18-19) And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw [it], they removed, and stood afar off. And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

They refused to hear God, so then what?

Ex. 28:1 And take thou unto thee Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office, [even] Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron's sons.

By their refusal (and who can blame them), the Aaronic priesthood was established taken out from the children of Israel. The 'nation of priests' really wasn't a 'nation of priests' anymore. It was the "Levitical priesthood' and the 'children of Israel' (see Acts 5:21).

SO, IMO, the OT model is not valid for us. Believers in Christ have not come to Sinai, but to Zion. There is no distinction of priesthood amongst us per se, but rather, the model given us is one of growing into being an elder from being a born-again believer within the Melchizedek priesthood with Christ Jesus as our High Priest.

 

[sunlover1]

The office of Priest as in the old testament, one that sacrificed the bulls and the lambs for the forgiveness of sin, was fulfilled with Christ and his sacrifice. He is our High Priest, be offered the ultimate sacrifice and paid the debt for good.

We are still priests for we offer sacrifices pleasing to God, our very selves.
Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

We sacrifice ourselves daily for God, and the gospel.

I love Hebrews:

23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
24But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecratedc for evermore. ​

http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=51659286#_ftn2c consecrated: Gr. perfected

http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=51659286#_ftnref2

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Peter nearly repeats Exo. 19:6:

But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

So, what happened after Ex. 19:6? Why does Hebrews tell us we have not come to Mt. Sinai, but to Mt. Zion?

And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that [was] in the camp trembled. ... (Ex. 20:18-19) And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw [it], they removed, and stood afar off. And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

They refused to hear God, so then what?

Ex. 28:1 And take thou unto thee Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office, [even] Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron's sons.

By their refusal (and who can blame them), the Aaronic priesthood was established taken out from the children of Israel. The 'nation of priests' really wasn't a 'nation of priests' anymore. It was the "Levitical priesthood' and the 'children of Israel' (see Acts 5:21).

SO, IMO, the OT model is not valid for us. Believers in Christ have not come to Sinai, but to Zion. There is no distinction of priesthood amongst us per se, but rather, the model given us is one of growing into being an elder from being a born-again believer within the Melchizedek priesthood with Christ Jesus as our High Priest.

Hmmm... The NT repeating the OT, how about that...

We are the replacement of that model.

Luk 20:16 He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard [it], they said, God forbid.

We (The Church) are the others.

Jhn 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

The office of Priest as in the old testament, one that sacrificed the bulls and the lambs for the forgiveness of sin, was fulfilled with Christ and his sacrifice. He is our High Priest, be offered the ultimate sacrifice and paid the debt for good.

We are still priests for we offer sacrifices pleasing to God, our very selves.
Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

We sacrifice ourselves daily for God, and the gospel.

Yes mam, and every Sunday we gather together and bring wine and bread. We give them freely as the fruits of our labor. The Priest prepares them, and we all ask The Holy Spirit to descend upon them and change them to the body and blood of Christ, his Holy Sacrifice, once and for all, to be shared by all throughout all time and all places. The Priest then offers it back to us changed into his Holy Body and Blood so that we may eat and drink Christ.

This is known as The bloodless sacrifice.

St. James, the elder brother of Our Lord practiced this liturgy inside the Temple of Jerusalem until his death in 69AD.

Now as we are commanded to keep all things that we were given should we discard this practice and the office that prepares it for us?

Not everyone is ordained.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Mar 3:14And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,

Jhn 15:16Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.


Are we truely going to argue that The Church was not given the authority to ordain?


1Cr 7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

Tts 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

Or are we going to argue that every man is ordained an elder by virtue of being a Christian? Surely not every Christian is an elder?

Forgive me...

 

[Rebekah30]

Hmmm... The NT repeating the OT, how about that...

We are the replacement of that model.

Luk 20:16 He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard [it], they said, God forbid.

We (The Church) are the others.

Jhn 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Forgive me...

Why don't we looked at the word ordained in this tranlation better. I see it used in the KJV, most others use appointed. They weren't ordained as Orthodox priests here. In fact this verse is what Calvinist bring up.

τίθημι
tithēmi
tith'-ay-mee
A prolonged form of a primary word θέω theō (which is used only as an alternate in certain tenses); to place (in the widest application, literally and figuratively; properly in a passive or horizontal posture, and thus different from G2476, which properly denotes an upright and active position, while G2749 is properly reflexive and utterly prostrate): - + advise, appoint, bow, commit, conceive, give, X kneel down, lay (aside, down, up), make, ordain, purpose, put, set (forth), settle, sink down.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

For the purposes of this thread I suggest:

ordained = "set aside by the laying on of hands"

Forgive me...

 

[Rebekah30]

Yes mam, and every Sunday we gather together and bring wine and bread. We give them freely as the fruits of our labor. The Priest prepares them, and we all ask The Holy Spirit to descend upon them and change them to the body and blood of Christ, his Holy Sacrifice, once and for all, to be shared by all throughout all time and all places. The Priest then offers it back to us changed into his Holy Body and Blood so that we may eat and drink Christ.

This is known as The bloodless sacrifice.

St. James, the elder brother of Our Lord practiced this liturgy inside the Temple of Jerusalem until his death in 69AD.

Now as we are commanded to keep all things that we were given should we discard this practice and the office that prepares it for us?

Not everyone is ordained.

Forgive me...

I do know you and others say it is not a re-sacrifice, but we are strongly told there is one sacrifice and it was done for good. The letter to the Hebrews stresses it


Heb 10:11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins he sat down at the right hand of God,

13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet.
14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
15 And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,
16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,"
17 then he adds, "I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more."
18 Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.