The Numerous Problems of Green Energy....

[JacksBratt]

That is about as sensible as saying you can't replace all horses in 1888 with cars because there is not enough gas stations, roads or car parts.

It is like we do not ever plan to develop better and different batteries, or better methods of mining battery materials, or better electric grid or vastly more powerful and efficient energy generation systems or gazillion other things.

What is the logic of we can not switch magically the 1,5 billion cars in the world to electric overnight so it is never going to happen. ?

Of course it is going to happen, of course we are going to make them different and better just like every other technology and of course it will take a decade or two.

Switching will happen when it's necessary, affordable and feasible..

I believe that it is not a feasible option and there will be technology that will replace things when necessity dictates.

I also believe that politicians don't care about what is down the road. They are grabbing all the cash that they can and when it all falls down someone else will be in power and take the hit.

 

[mindlight]

There is not enough of everything to replace all the cars on the roads today with EV's. Certainly not enough electricity in the grid. It has a hard time already trying to keep up with A/C units in the summer.

If you are putting your money on going to mars to get raw materials for this..... I admire your optimism.

Where I live it is a viable option to consider more nuanced solutions. For example, we went down to one car during the pandemic since we found we were hardly using the second car and so it was a waste of money. But we cycle more on local trips and we take public transport for longer ones. In fact, I only use the car for supermarket runs and my wife uses it for her work now but only on the days, she cannot be bothered to cycle. I have friends who live in mountain regions currently covered in snow. They use E-Bikes to get to work with special winter tires for the snow and ice on mountain paths. You can get up to 45 kmh on an e-bike but even at 25 kmh that makes a 10km journey to work along mountain paths less than half an hour in the fresh air. The charge on the smaller battery is not as heavy as on the main car. We currently situate major depots with lorries in mind but they could also be situated by waterways, near ports or by major rail lines. You appear to be thinking in terms of a one-one replacement of existing infrastructure but the inefficiencies of this infrastructure do not need to be exactly duplicated.

 

[JacksBratt]

Where I live it is a viable option to consider more nuanced solutions. For example, we went down to one car during the pandemic since we found we were hardly using the second car and so it was a waste of money. But we cycle more on local trips and we take public transport for longer ones. In fact, I only use the car for supermarket runs and my wife uses it for her work now but only on the days, she cannot be bothered to cycle. I have friends who live in mountain regions currently covered in snow. They use E-Bikes to get to work with special winter tires for the snow and ice on mountain paths. You can get up to 45 kmh on an e-bike but even at 25 kmh that makes a 10km journey to work along mountain paths less than half an hour in the fresh air. The charge on the smaller battery is not as heavy as on the main car. We currently situate major depots with lorries in mind but they could also be situated by waterways, near ports or by major rail lines. You appear to be thinking in terms of a one-one replacement of existing infrastructure but the inefficiencies of this infrastructure do not need to be exactly duplicated.

Nice that you have options.
We have three vehicles and use whichever one is needed for the traveling necessities. Sometimes we need the space of the SUV. Sometimes we need to tow something, sometimes we use the sedan for long trips with low gas mileage.
Sometimes I need one while my wife needs the other.
We cannot cycle to where we need to go. We live miles from "civilization".
It's cold here 30% of the time so batteries, although making progress, are not great yet in our climate.

It's like saying that everyone can have one pair of pants and a hoodie...... One pair of shoes and a hat.

It just isn't that simple.

But, they know that. Down the road, if they ever could get everyone driving EV's... they would have you at their mercy by increasing electrical costs.
Right now.. they do it enough with gas and diesel.

10 years from now they will have some new panic to force on us.

 

[WolfGate]

Should make some of you a bit relieved then to hear that a lot of R&D is being done already on a possible next technology, hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. Readily accessible fuel, H2O as the byproduct (when they get hydrogen mature enough. Some other fuel cell technologies which are more mature would have some other byproducts)

 

[mindlight]

Nice that you have options.
We have three vehicles and use whichever one is needed for the traveling necessities. Sometimes we need the space of the SUV. Sometimes we need to tow something, sometimes we use the sedan for long trips with low gas mileage.
Sometimes I need one while my wife needs the other.
We cannot cycle to where we need to go. We live miles from "civilization".
It's cold here 30% of the time so batteries, although making progress, are not great yet in our climate.

It's like saying that everyone can have one pair of pants and a hoodie...... One pair of shoes and a hat.

It just isn't that simple.

But, they know that. Down the road, if they ever could get everyone driving EV's... they would have you at their mercy by increasing electrical costs.
Right now.. they do it enough with gas and diesel.

10 years from now they will have some new panic to force on us.

You always hire a van when you need extra space. Some of the latest electric cars are quite spacious. You can charge them off a home network including windmills and solar, and competition law prohibits monopolies when it comes to suppliers.

 

[mindlight]

Should make some of you a bit relieved then to hear that a lot of R&D is being done already on a possible next technology, hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. Readily accessible fuel, H2O as the byproduct (when they get hydrogen mature enough. Some other fuel cell technologies which are more mature would have some other byproducts)

That is the German strategy. But they plan to import much of it from the Middle east where there is plenty of sun and seawater can be turned into green hydrogen. The French are talking in terms of pink hydrogen which you can create using downtime nuclear power. The British could use offshore wind to create hydrogen in offshore plants from seawater. The possibilities are becoming more and more economic.

 

[JacksBratt]

Should make some of you a bit relieved then to hear that a lot of R&D is being done already on a possible next technology, hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. Readily accessible fuel, H2O as the byproduct (when they get hydrogen mature enough. Some other fuel cell technologies which are more mature would have some other byproducts)

If they really want to stop ICE vehicles.. There is Hydrogen and even Nuclear.... or cars that run on Ammonia.

This whole idea that we are all going to be driving EV's ... is a money grabbing political tool.

 

[JacksBratt]

You always hire a van when you need extra space. Some of the latest electric cars are quite spacious. You can charge them off a home network including windmills and solar, and competition law prohibits monopolies when it comes to suppliers.

Windmills and solar are coming down in price but very expensive. They also don't last that long, have toxic chemical componants and are expensive to dispose of. They are not as "green" as people would like.

 

[WolfGate]

Do yo

If they really want to stop ICE vehicles.. There is Hydrogen and even Nuclear.... or cars that run on Ammonia.

This whole idea that we are all going to be driving EV's ... is a money grabbing political tool.

Do you think any of those are ready to go today? Even in the next 20 years? It takes a long time to develop technology to the point it can be put in vehicles.

No comment on nuclear, but I know first hand about some of the R&D work being done for hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, including by a major manufacturer of tradition engines today. Very viable technology but still a couple of decades away.

 

[mindlight]

Windmills and solar are coming down in price but very expensive. They also don't last that long, have toxic chemical componants and are expensive to dispose of. They are not as "green" as people would like.

Toxic metals are released by burning coal as well as the CO2 effects. So there is also a cost with EOL decommissioning there, don't get me started on nuclear, and even with oil and gas, there is a toxic component to the decommissioning effort as well as continued usage.

Oil and gas prices are artificially low for American consumers and in the long run, this is not sustainable and especially with the ever-increasing demand. Wind and solar are sustainable energy at a falling price by contrast. No solution is perfectly green but the net toxicity, overall sustainability, and future price prospects are brightest with green technologies.

 

[Fantine]

People who believe that we can give up on oil, only drive electric cars and go with solar panals, wind turbines and battery packs... need to realize that there is not enough lithium and graphite in the world to make all the batteries necessary... and, in the case of EV's... we don't produce enough electricity to switch every car to electric.

If you took oil out of the equation.. you would not have a life.
Solar panals are not green.. they contain toxic compounds and are toxic waste after their 20 year expected life span.

All of this due to a lie that says that the earth will die in 12 years.. well now 9 years, if we don't go to EV's etc.... Scaremongering.

None of the predictions of the scaremongering "scientists" of the early 2000's have ever shown to be true.

Think for yourself.... Taxes don't do one thing for climate change.. It's not "man made" and it has been changing for millenia.

I'm surprised. You should know that people who believe in clean energy to combat global warming would be actively working on recycling the components needed for its production and storage.

And guess what? It's already happened.

Another fallacy debunked.

We Recycle Solar | We Recycle Solar

(480) 482-7050 info@werecyclesolar.com Headquarters in Phoenix, AZ Contact Contact Complete Solar Solutions Trusted by the Industries Largest Brands We provide complete solar panel recycling services, including PV panels, energy storage systems, inverters, & related waste, as well as disposal...

werecyclesolar.com

 

[JacksBratt]

Do yo

Do you think any of those are ready to go today? Even in the next 20 years? It takes a long time to develop technology to the point it can be put in vehicles.

Well, EV's are not affordable to most people. I know that I cannot afford one. Also, the infrastructure for providing the energy to run them is not available... Raw materials are in question as well....
Even if you had all of this in place, which they don't, the oil industry is still a necessity..

Just start with any product, like a car, and see what you would have left of that machine, if you took away every single part that depends on the oil industry.

All of this is politically motivated based on the fear of "man made" climate alteration. Which is making a lot of elite people rich.

No comment on nuclear, but I know first hand about some of the R&D work being done for hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, including by a major manufacturer of tradition engines today. Very viable technology but still a couple of decades away.

How far away, in years, do you think that viable technology would be if the politicians put as much energy and funding into it as they are with EV's?

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

Windmills and solar are coming down in price but very expensive. They also don't last that long, have toxic chemical componants and are expensive to dispose of. They are not as "green" as people would like.

Forbes study would disagree:

Renewable Energy Prices Hit Record Lows: How Can Utilities Benefit From Unstoppable Solar And Wind?

If falling prices have made renewable energy unstoppable in the U.S., what does that mean for utilities? If the question is determined by smart policy, the answer may be financial opportunity.

www.forbes.com

Over the last decade, wind energy prices have fallen 70% and solar photovoltaics have fallen 89% on average, according to Lazard's 2019 report. Utility-scale renewable energy prices are now significantly below those for coal and gas generation, and they're less than half the cost of nuclear. The latest numbers again confirm that building new clean energy generation is cheaper than running existing coal plants.

 

[Tuur]

Forbes study would disagree:

Renewable Energy Prices Hit Record Lows: How Can Utilities Benefit From Unstoppable Solar And Wind?

If falling prices have made renewable energy unstoppable in the U.S., what does that mean for utilities? If the question is determined by smart policy, the answer may be financial opportunity.

www.forbes.com

Over the last decade, wind energy prices have fallen 70% and solar photovoltaics have fallen 89% on average, according to Lazard's 2019 report. Utility-scale renewable energy prices are now significantly below those for coal and gas generation, and they're less than half the cost of nuclear. The latest numbers again confirm that building new clean energy generation is cheaper than running existing coal plants.

Yet they still don't work when the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

Yet they still don't work when the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine.

I'm not advocating that we go solely to a single energy source. But the more we diversify, the better off we are. At one point in my career, I designed fuel ethanol plants. One I worked on was J.M. Simplot, which was using potatoes that couldnt be used for food and potato scrap as a source for ethanol and livestock feed. So they were taking was would be wasted and turned it into some usable products.

Would solar work well in the Pacific NW, of course not. But they can also look at wind, geothermal, or heck even wave energy.

Researchers Identify Which West Coast Regions Hold Greatest Wave Energy Potential

Washington and Oregon coastlines hold most promising areas to pull power from West Coast waves, according to a recent study on wave energy.

www.pnnl.gov

 

[Postvieww]

If anyone who wants the hassle of an electric car go for it but consider where the electricity you charge it with comes from and that impact on the environment. Not mention the processes , costs and elements used in manufacturing batteries . Oh yeah then we have to dispose of old unusable batteries. I am not sure this technology is ready to replace combustion engines yet. Let’s not get the cart before the horse. Even horses had to be fed and cleaned up after.

 

[Semper-Fi]

MSN

"The great irony is that this political movement — which purports to be about protecting the environment
— results in oil and natural gas production moving from countries with the highest environmental standards
to countries with lower, or even functionally zero, environmental standards,"

 

[JacksBratt]