The Normalizing Of Bastard Children

[CharismaticLady]

Arabic wasn't around in the 1st century

Sorry, typo, I meant Aramaic.

 

[DamianWarS]

I understand where you are coming from, and it is not a word for "polite society."

if it's not a word for polite society does it have a place in the gospel? I can only see it having a negative impact. So use whatever words you want but not at the expense of the gospel. Jesus tells us to be as wise as serpents and as gentle as doves, be carful not to confuse these two.

 

[CharismaticLady]

if it's not a word for polite society does it have a place in the gospel? I can only see it having a negative impact. So use whatever words you want but not at the expense of the gospel. Jesus tells us to be as wise as serpents and as gentle as doves, be carful not to confuse these two.

Do you, or do you not care about the apathy to holiness in today's church? You seem to be on the same channel and can't see past it.

 

[CharismaticLady]

if it's not a word for polite society does it have a place in the gospel? I can only see it having a negative impact. So use whatever words you want but not at the expense of the gospel. Jesus tells us to be as wise as serpents and as gentle as doves, be carful not to confuse these two.

How can you be a follower of Isa Al Masih and a Christian too? Do you believe Jesus Christ is God, or some lesser being?

 

[DamianWarS]

Do you, or do you not care about the apathy to holiness in today's church? You seem to be on the same channel and can't see past it.

I quote Christ's words and you accuse me of apathy?

 

[DamianWarS]

How can you be a follower of Isa Al Masih and a Christian too? Do you believe Jesus Christ is God, or some lesser being?

check the forum rules and if you think I'm in violation of them then report me but I assure you I'm not and that should be a good enough answer.

For clarity I'm a Nicene Christianity (which is implied by posting here), you'll just have to accept that I call Christ Isa.

 

[Philip_B]

I am interested in the results of the poll, which I cannot see as there is no option with which I would be comfortable to own.

 

[Hmm]

I may be wrong, but I think featured is an automatic thing that happens given a certain number of replies. This has garnered 12 pages of them.

Thanks - I did find it inexplicable!

 

[mmksparbud]

Good grief---you do realize that Jesus was not born in wedlock? This was probably a word He was called.

Bottom line: unless God controls the heart, humans control their reproductive organs. Why are the unsaved expected to act in the same ways as the saved? The saved should know better, but even they make mistakes. They can not be taken out and stoned anymore for we do not have a theocracy anymore. All children are a gift of God and should be treated as such. How they got here is not our business. We should have mercy on those who fall, how is ending up pregnant any worse a sin than any of the others?
Break one, you break them all---besides, everyone is always screaming about we are not under the law but under grace and the 10 commandments are no longer binding so why should anyone be upset over out of wedlock children?

 

[coffee4u]

Good grief---you do realize that Jesus was not born in wedlock? This was probably a word He was called.

Joseph and Mary were married before Jesus was born because they lived together and the Angel told Joseph not to divorce her. Betrothal/marriage is a bit more complicated in Jewish law. Not like an engagement in the west which is easily broken off. Under Jewish law, a betrothed woman was considered to be married.

 

[mmksparbud]

Joseph and Mary were married before Jesus was born because they lived together and the Angel told Joseph not to divorce her. Betrothal/marriage is a bit more complicated in Jewish law. Not like an engagement in the west which is easily broken off. Under Jewish law, a betrothed woman was considered to be married.

No, they were betrothed. Under Jewish law, when you were betrothed, you would need a divorce to end the betrothal, but they were not free to have sexual relations until after the actual marriage ceremony.

Mat_1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.
Luk_1:27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
Luk_2:5 to enrol himself with Mary, who was betrothed to him, being great with child.

 

[coffee4u]

No, they were betrothed. Under Jewish law, when you were betrothed, you would need a divorce to end the betrothal, but they were not free to have sexual relations until after the actual marriage ceremony.

Mat_1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.
Luk_1:27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
Luk_2:5 to enrol himself with Mary, who was betrothed to him, being great with child.

I didn't say they were having sexual relations at that point, when I say 'live together' I mean they went on the road together to Bethlehem, they were alone with each other and living together. Whether it was finalized or not society viewed them as married. If society saw her as single she would have still been under her parent's roof.

I know this is the Wiki but it looks correct.

In Jewish law, marriage consists of two separate acts, called erusin (or kiddushin, meaning sanctification), which is the betrothal ceremony, and nissu'in or chupah, the actual Jewish wedding ceremony. Erusin changes the couple's interpersonal status, while nissu'in brings about the legal consequences of the change of status. In Talmudic times, these two ceremonies usually took place up to a year apart; the bride lived with her parents until the actual marriage ceremony.

You are free to think differently but I view them as married by the time they headed off to Bethlehem together, whether it was finalized or not.

 

[mmksparbud]

I didn't say they were having sexual relations at that point, when I say 'live together' I mean they went on the road together to Bethlehem, they were alone with each other and living together. Whether it was finalized or not society viewed them as married. If society saw her as single she would have still been under her parent's roof.

I know this is the Wiki but it looks correct.


You are free to think differently but I view them as married by the time they headed off to Bethlehem together, whether it was finalized or not.

OK---then you are going to ignore that scripture says they were betrothed?
KJV Luk 2:5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
ASV Luk 2:5 to enrol himself with Mary, who was betrothed to him, being great with child.
New International Version
He went there to register with Mary, who was pledged to be married to him and was expecting a child.

New Living Translation
He took with him Mary, to whom he was engaged, who was now expecting a child.

English Standard Version
to be registered with Mary, his betrothed, who was with child.

Berean Study Bible
He went there to register with Mary, who was pledged to him in marriage and was expecting a child.

Berean Literal Bible
to register with Mary the one being betrothed to him, she being with child.

New American Standard Bible
in order to register along with Mary, who was engaged to him, and was with child.

New King James Version
to be registered with Mary, his betrothed wife, who was with child.

King James Bible
To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.

Christian Standard Bible
to be registered along with Mary, who was engaged to him and was pregnant.

 

[coffee4u]

I am not saying they were not betrothed, which is why I said 'whether it was finalized or not' I am saying they were viewed as married by the society around them.
It says the same here: Ancient Jewish Marriage | My Jewish Learning

Until late in the Middle Ages, marriage consisted of two ceremonies that were marked by celebrations at two separate times, with an interval between. First came the betrothal [erusin]; and later, the wedding [nissuin]. At the betrothal the woman was legally married, although she still remained in her father’s house.

Plus she had left her father's house and didn't go back.

 

[A_Thinker]

if it's not a word for polite society does it have a place in the gospel? I can only see it having a negative impact. So use whatever words you want but not at the expense of the gospel. Jesus tells us to be as wise as serpents and as gentle as doves, be carful not to confuse these two.

"as gentle as doves" ...

 

[A_Thinker]

Do you, or do you not care about the apathy to holiness in today's church? You seem to be on the same channel and can't see past it.

What, would you say, is the recourse of the church to such apathy ?

I don't recall Jesus shaming anyone to repentance. And to take the particularly cowardly path of shaming innocent children ... seems to me to be entirely beneath His calling ... and ours ...

Mark 10

[13] And they were bringing children to him that he might touch them, and the disciples rebuked them. [14] But when Jesus saw it, he was indignant and said to them, “Let the children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God. [15] Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.” [16] And he took them in his arms and blessed them, laying his hands on them. (ESV)

 

[A_Thinker]

I am interested in the results of the poll, which I cannot see as there is no option with which I would be comfortable to own.

An honest question from a brother ... why would you be interested in the results of that poll ? Do you expect to find some modicum of truth hidden there ?

 

[A_Thinker]

Good grief---you do realize that Jesus was not born in wedlock? This was probably a word He was called.

Jesus was not conceived within the state of wedlock ... which is one of the hallmarks of Jewish disbelief to this day.

It is an interesting thing to contemplate ... that what Christians understand as a miracle ... others regard with contempt. The lie foisted upon the Jewish people ... is that Jesus is the son of a Roman soldier ... who took from Mary that which she had committed to her espoused husband, Joseph.

 

[A_Thinker]

No, they were betrothed. Under Jewish law, when you were betrothed, you would need a divorce to end the betrothal, but they were not free to have sexual relations until after the actual marriage ceremony.

Scripture says that Joseph took Mary to be his wife ... prior to the birth of Jesus, ... though they did not consummate the marriage ... until after Jesus was born ...

Matthew 1:24-25 And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife, 25 but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.

Joseph was a remarkable man. There couldn't have been a better earthly father for Jesus ...

 

[Philip_B]

An honest question from a brother ... why would you be interested in the results of that poll ? Do you expect to find some modicum of truth hidden there ?

Perhaps my parents were not married to each other and I wonder if anyone here remembers that children grow up.