The No-Straw-Man Calvinism challenge.

[Hammster]

So what? The bible was written for TODAY.

It must be understood in its context. Just like any writing. It cannot mean what it never meant.

 

[dad]

Fair enough. Then it should be easy to show where Reformed Theology teaches that we have no free will because of predestination.

Well, if they claim that we do have free will, then we cannot be predestined in the way of salvation, in the way we think of the word predestination. Any definition of predestination must include our having a real choice. You cannot claim God is sovereign over our will..because He limited Himself to allow us the choice!

 

[dad]

It must be understood in its context. Just like any writing. It cannot mean what it never meant.

It can mean things people long ago never dreamed of. The context has to include the other sheep He spoke of that would come, and what they needed also.

 

[Hammster]

Well, if they claim that we do have free will, then we cannot be predestined in the way of salvation, in the way we think of the word predestination. Any definition of predestination must include our having a real choice. You cannot claim God is sovereign over our will..because He limited Himself to allow us the choice!

So you really have nothing that says that Reformed Theology teaches that we have no free will because of predestination. Gotcha.

 

[Hammster]

It can mean things people long ago never dreamed of. The context has to include the other sheep He spoke of that would come, and what they needed also.

No, it really can't. If so, then it's open to all sorts of wild interpretations.

 

[dad]

So you really have nothing that says that Reformed Theology teaches that we have no free will because of predestination. Gotcha.

How could anyone destined to chose something have free will?

 

[ToBeLoved]

So what? The bible was written for TODAY.

What do you even mean by that? That is a way open statement. Why can't people just express a full thought and not little sub thoughts like we are in your brain or somehing

 

[dad]

No, it really can't. If so, then it's open to all sorts of wild interpretations.

Yes, the bible is alive, not a dead book. It cannot be limited to the customs or comprehension of people thousands of years ago.

 

[dad]

What do you even mean by that? That is a way open statement. Why can't people just express a full thought and not little sub thoughts like we are in your brain or somehing

How is 'the bible is for right now' be a sub thought?

 

[Hammster]

How could anyone destined to chose something have free will?

Please, stick with the OP. If I start an Ask the Calvinist Thread, I'll let you know.

 

[Hammster]

Yes, the bible is alive, not a dead book. It cannot be limited to the customs or comprehension of people thousands of years ago.

It can be limited to the author's intention.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Fair enough. Then it should be easy to show where Reformed Theology teaches that we have no free will because of predestination.

I've heard you guys say we have no free will at all. It doesnt exist. Free will.

 

[dad]

It can be limited to the author's intention.

God is the Author. He intended it for today.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Then those in hell will have an excuse to blame God

Yes. They will be able to blame themselves. Their sin and rebellion are at fault.

 

[dad]

Please, stick with the OP. If I start an Ask the Calvinist Thread, I'll let you know.

Having a Calvinist thread and avoiding the elephant in the room of predestination, when it is all over the links in the OP seems strange.

 

[Hammster]

I've heard you guys say we have no free will at all. It doesnt exist. Free will.

Okay.

 

[dad]

I've heard you guys say we have no free will at all. It doesnt exist. Free will.

The evidence mounts... a witness.

 

[Hammster]

Having a Calvinist thread and avoiding the elephant in the room of predestination, when it is all over the links in the OP seems strange.

If it's all over the links, you should have no problem finding something with which to argue against.

No elephant avoiding here.

 

[ToBeLoved]

How is 'the bible is for right now' be a sub thought?

Explain how the Bible is for right now? In comparrison to 2,000 years ago. God doesn't change, so why would the Bible have to be for any time period. Truth is truth. It doesn't change if 1,000 years go by.

So I don't get the point of what you are trying to say at all.

 

[Hammster]

The evidence mounts... a witness.

That wasn't a from one of the sources listed.