The No-Kids-Allowed Movement - Prejudice much?

[Niffer]

The no-kids-allowed movement is spreading - Parenting on Shine

I'll let the article speak for itself, because my mouth is currently too full of mean words to comment.
-Niff

 

[EmilyF]

While I find that it may be going to far, I don't actually disagree with banning children from some places or restricting the hours that they can be some where. It's not discrimination legally speaking, either. There's a restaurant here that bans anyone under 18 after 8pm. It's their legal right to do so.

I think this movement is coming out of a frustration that is a case of a few ruining things for the whole. Your (you generic) kids may be well behaved but not all and not all parents really care whether or not their kids are disturbing others. Your idea of cute isn't the same as everyone's and not everyone wants to be approached at their table by kids, to have "cute" kids poking their heads up over the next booth and not everyone wants to hear a crying baby. Yes, it's a fact that babies cry, but I for one don't want it disturbing my twice yearly dinner out alone with my husband.

It's not automatically hateful and prejudiced. It's sometimes just a simple matter of business or preference. The restaurant is a high end restaurant that is mostly centered around it's bar and it's alcohol selection. Why does a kid need to go there?

There are places that cater to kids and no one is screaming prejudice there (at least not rationally). Places should be allowed to cater to adults.

 

[Decaffeinated]

^Agree.

 

[Niffer]

Actually it's called "ageism" or "age discrimination" and it is illegal in Canada (maybe it's different in the US) - also, after banning someone under 18 after 8pm is usually because the venue serves alcohol, and is a pub or bar.

You're right in saying that children should not be everywhere...a high-scale restaurant at 9pm on a friday night, for example.
But just because a few bad apples spoiled the bunch, I'm going to be banned from that entire chain?
What about the bans on children on airplanes? Why should I be treated as a 2nd class citizen because I have a child? Why does the drunk woman get to shout at the top of her lungs in the plane, or that man continually fart beside me, or the incessant snoring of old people that rivals the sounds of the airplane??

If noise is the largest complaints, can we PLEASE ban all teens from ages 15-19 in packs of larger than 4 in any public place?
Because between their music I can clearly hear from their ear buds, their swearing and loud, obnoxious "LIKE O.M.G GUYZZZ!! WHATEVERS!!!!!!!" squealing, (in the case of girls) and the stupid "Beavis" laugh of "uh-huh-huh-huh" from guys, I'm just about ready to pull my own ears off.

If you get to complain about my 2 year old crying, I get to complain about your teen squealing at the top of their lungs at any movie with a teen boy in it.

Equality or we all learn how to get along, and put up with eachother.

- Niff

UPDATED TO ADD: After doing some research all this "no kids allowed" movement is in the US..this makes more sense now. I didn't think it'd fly here. Well, good luck to all the Mums who will be spending all their time at home, because they're banned from everywhere from resturants to grocery stores.

 

[Umaro]

There are places that cater to kids and no one is screaming prejudice there (at least not rationally). Places should be allowed to cater to adults.

To be fair, some people are doing just that.

Police Crack Down on Chess Players in N.Y.C. Park - NYTimes.com

 

[Niffer]

To be fair, some people are doing just that.

Police Crack Down on Chess Players in N.Y.C. Park - NYTimes.com

While I could go on about a group of creepy homeless men hanging around in a clearly marked children's park, let's just forget that for now.
Instead I'm going to agree with you - if I personally had a problem with homeless men trying to teach my child chess at a public park, I would simply take my child to another park.
Why?
Because these men aren't doing any harm to anyone - yes they personally make me uncomfortable, but thats my issue, not theirs.

Apparently this concept is a very difficult one for those wanting to ban kids from the face of the earth. (pardon: with the exclusion of mcdonalds....)

- Niffer

 

[EmilyF]

I would love to send the average teen to a remote island somewhere until their taste in music, movies and the tones of their voices improve.

The restaurant near me that doesn't allow children after 8 does not sell liquor. They are attached to a bar but the food side does not hold a liquor license. They put a total ban on because parents were complaining that it wasn't THEIR special snowflake that was annoying others and breaking rules and it became too much trouble for them.

I haven't seen any total ban of kids on airplanes, just first class. I've read plenty of articles of drunk and disorderly people being thrown of of planes though.

That article about the chess players does not really reflect people acting rationally.

Edited because I read the article wrong. Serves me right for being up all night. The article about the chess players, I believe that the police are acting poorly. Those chess tables were put there for anyone to use. It may have been poor planning to put them and the playground so close. The law seems to be that no one with out a child should be in the playground area. That means that the men playing chess are breaking no laws. It's nanny stating. If every child playing in that play ground has an adult, they're unlikely in any danger.



I

 

[mina]

Let me preface this saying I love children and want lots of children and I also work with children. Kids like me and I like them.....

However the restaurant that was quoted in the article....I fully support them in thier choice for their private establishment. And I would go out of my way to visit them if I wanted to have an evening out with someone special or with other adults uninterupted. I figure if I have children or my nieces and nephews with me and want to go out to eat with them; i'll go to a place that caters to families and there are hundreds that do. Kids will be kids and display normal child behavior and I love children; but caregivers that do nothing about kids with them getting out of hand is my beef. I'll never forget going out to eat with a pregnant girlfriend and while we were there a family came in with really really cute kids. However, the parents did nothing about what their children were doing. Their little boy was running around with a fork. And yes I get that to a child eating in a new place with lots of people at a place that has cool forks is intriquing and fun; he was thinking like a child and it was like 9pm so he was probably over excited and tired at the same time. But, to let your child do that is really dangerous to other patrons that aren't there to fawn over your kid. Long story short, the boy ran up to my friend and "stabbed" her in the belly!!! She let out a scream!! She wasn't hurt, thank God!!! But the parents NEVER appologized and went as far to try and laugh it off. "Kids will be kids and he thought you had a balloon under there!" is all that was said to her!!! Um, wow! We were not amused. The management appologized to her profusely, but we left so I don't know if they kicked them out or not. It was wild.


So I see this particular restaurant's (that was quoted about in the article) viewpoint. It didn't cater to children in the first place, and the owner and staff were probably trying to police other people's children (and probably getting cursed out for it) instead of being able to fully do their jobs to serve their regulars that they probably got the most business from.
On another forum I frequent we were discussing this in great detail and the point was brought up that the public isn't sick of kids; it's sick of parents that sit there and let their children bother or endanger the safety of other patrons or staff and laugh or think it's cute and think we should all be ok with it and think it's cute too. If a child is throwing things , hitting other customers, harming or putting others in harms way with their behavior in a public place, screaming to the point of a tantrum, etc.. then the parents need to intervene and take them out or the management has the right to ask them to leave. I always think that restaurants that put a no-child policy into place have probably had many many complaints from their customer base over behaviors that they were tired of haggling about and that were possibly hurting their business.


I have no problems with kids being kids and cute children enhance my out in public experience, but the extremes of allowing bad behavior and letting it cross into other people's path seem to be growing. And so businesses and people are reacting. I still think patrons (or staff) have the right to complain if they get hurt or they get hit with food or something else unusual in the unruly realm. Crying, melt downs, etc... these are pretty normal for kids and if the parents are right there dealing with it; then I think most people have no problem with it. But, things like getting pelted with food, stuck with a fork, running into and knocking down others ; things that are extreme and out of the ordinary and the parents just act like everyone should be ok with getting hurt or having their food ruined by flying objects landing in your dish; this is what people and businesses get fed up with. And unfortunately it happens too often. I always complement the well behaved kids I see in restaurants and stores; I think it encourages them and reinforces the right way to act.


I also support the ban of cellphones in movie theaters and feel like applauding when theater staff follow through on their polices and kick out people who are texting and talking on their phone during movies. I usually send them a positive e-mail about it. And I support theaters kicking out parents with crying children in movies that have ratings that are not for children. I think that is extremely rude and disturbing on the part of the parents; "I'm going to bring my kid to this R-rated movie because I want to see it and I don't care how it affects everyone else or my child's emotional well-being".

 

[ChildByGrace]

Let me preface this saying I love children and want lots of children and I also work with children. Kids like me and I like them.....

However the restaurant that was quoted in the article....I fully support them in thier choice for their private establishment. And I would go out of my way to visit them if I wanted to have an evening out with someone special or with other adults uninterupted. I figure if I have children or my nieces and nephews with me and want to go out to eat with them; i'll go to a place that caters to families and there are hundreds that do. Kids will be kids and display normal child behavior and I love children; but caregivers that do nothing about kids with them getting out of hand is my beef. I'll never forget going out to eat with a pregnant girlfriend and while we were there a family came in with really really cute kids. However, the parents did nothing about what their children were doing. Their little boy was running around with a fork. And yes I get that to a child eating in a new place with lots of people at a place that has cool forks is intriquing and fun; he was thinking like a child and it was like 9pm so he was probably over excited and tired at the same time. But, to let your child do that is really dangerous to other patrons that aren't there to fawn over your kid. Long story short, the boy ran up to my friend and "stabbed" her in the belly!!! She let out a scream!! She wasn't hurt, thank God!!! But the parents NEVER appologized and went as far to try and laugh it off. "Kids will be kids and he thought you had a balloon under there!" is all that was said to her!!! Um, wow! We were not amused. The management appologized to her profusely, but we left so I don't know if they kicked them out or not. It was wild.


So I see this particular restaurant's (that was quoted about in the article) viewpoint. It didn't cater to children in the first place, and the owner and staff were probably trying to police other people's children (and probably getting cursed out for it) instead of being able to fully do their jobs to serve their regulars that they probably got the most business from.
On another forum I frequent we were discussing this in great detail and the point was brought up that the public isn't sick of kids; it's sick of parents that sit there and let their children bother or endanger the safety of other patrons or staff and laugh or think it's cute and think we should all be ok with it and think it's cute too. If a child is throwing things , hitting other customers, harming or putting others in harms way with their behavior in a public place, screaming to the point of a tantrum, etc.. then the parents need to intervene and take them out or the management has the right to ask them to leave. I always think that restaurants that put a no-child policy into place have probably had many many complaints from their customer base over behaviors that they were tired of haggling about and that were possibly hurting their business.


I have no problems with kids being kids and cute children enhance my out in public experience, but the extremes of allowing bad behavior and letting it cross into other people's path seem to be growing. And so businesses and people are reacting. I still think patrons (or staff) have the right to complain if they get hurt or they get hit with food or something else unusual in the unruly realm. Crying, melt downs, etc... these are pretty normal for kids and if the parents are right there dealing with it; then I think most people have no problem with it. But, things like getting pelted with food, stuck with a fork, running into and knocking down others ; things that are extreme and out of the ordinary and the parents just act like everyone should be ok with getting hurt or having their food ruined by flying objects landing in your dish; this is what people and businesses get fed up with. And unfortunately it happens too often. I always complement the well behaved kids I see in restaurants and stores; I think it encourages them and reinforces the right way to act.


I also support the ban of cellphones in movie theaters and feel like applauding when theater staff follow through on their polices and kick out people who are texting and talking on their phone during movies. I usually send them a positive e-mail about it. And I support theaters kicking out parents with crying children in movies that have ratings that are not for children.

This.

Unfortunately the minority do have a habit of ruining things for the rest of us.
Whilst I don't hold to the thought that having children changes your life completely, I don't agree with the way some people think it doesn't change your life at all. Most young children get grumpy when it's nearing their bedtime-therefore taking them out for a meal around that time is asking for trouble as they will be grumpy.
I also don't agree with taking children to the cinema to see a film that isn't meant for them. There is no way I'd take my 4 year old to see Harry Potter. I want to watch it in peace and I know that he'd want to talk to me about things which would disturb myself and others.

 

[aunt_kelly]

I agree with Mina. There are enough places that cater to families and children and I can expect that my meal might be disturbed if I eat at one of those places, but if I want a nice quiet night with DH or with some friends, I'd like to be able to choose a place where kids won't be running around and screaming.

Really though, it's a matter of parenting. Parents are allowing their children to run around like chickens with their heads cut off, with no consequences. If I even attempted that as a child, we were out of there! My mom would take me out to the car while the rest of the family finished dinner, and she would punish me, and make me feel guilty that she couldn't enjoy her meal either. It worked!

 

[MrsWright]

As a parent I can actually understand why the no-kids-allowed movement is spreading and I'm rather grateful for it.

 

[CrystalBrooke]

I think certain places should ban children. I think parents who don't watch their children out in public should be escorted out of wherever they are. As someone who works in retail I get tired of having to watch other people's children while they wander about touching breakables and jumping on display furniture. As a parent, I know that kids get bored while shopping, but there is NO excuse for that type of behavior.

If I want to have a nice dinner with my husband, I don't want some screaming brat to ruin it for me.

 

[aunt_kelly]

oh my goodness! A few weeks ago my mom and I were at Sam's Club shopping and we came across this mom and her little boy. She was letting him climb and play on top of a display on one of the aisle endcaps, cases if beer. This kid was probably like 6 feet off the ground. She was explaining to someone else that she and her husband don't get any shopping done unless they let him do whatever he wants like that! Stay at home and let your husband shop! And you know that they'd sue if he were to fall.....

 

[EmilyF]

UPDATED TO ADD: After doing some research all this "no kids allowed" movement is in the US..this makes more sense now. I didn't think it'd fly here. Well, good luck to all the Mums who will be spending all their time at home, because they're banned from everywhere from resturants to grocery stores.

This is a little dramatic and I don't see it happening anything close to like this. The big trend here at least in my state is supervised play centers in grocery stores. I for one? LOOOOOOVE THEM! My boys love them, I can get shopping done without them underfoot and they get a small treat in the center. It's not a requirement to use them but most people do. I was in no way cut out to be with my kids 24/7 so they're great for me.

A few places banning children doesn't even make a movement. I have a hard time seeing a place like McDonald's banning kids chain wide. First, they're franchised and there are very few chain wide rules. Second, they cornered the market on catering to kids. They'd be stupid to reverse it now.

Like I said, kid free places would be more likely to get my business.

 

[mina]

I agree. I see the grocery store "kid's zone" as being a mother's helper type service and it's advertized as such. Big difference from "banning" children all together.

 

[Niffer]

This is a little dramatic and I don't see it happening anything close to like this. The big trend here at least in my state is supervised play centers in grocery stores. I for one? LOOOOOOVE THEM! My boys love them, I can get shopping done without them underfoot and they get a small treat in the center. It's not a requirement to use them but most people do. I was in no way cut out to be with my kids 24/7 so they're great for me.

A few places banning children doesn't even make a movement. I have a hard time seeing a place like McDonald's banning kids chain wide. First, they're franchised and there are very few chain wide rules. Second, they cornered the market on catering to kids. They'd be stupid to reverse it now.

Like I said, kid free places would be more likely to get my business.

I have never seen a grocery store with a play area...but it makes great sense to me! I assume its got an age requirement like 4-12 or something?
Also, how supervised is it?? Can anyone walk in there and say "this is my child"??
..yeah, I have never seen that before, but assuming it's safe, I think its a great idea.

McDonalds would never ban kids - they rely too much on their kids meals I think, but if I'm going out to dinner with my kids, I'd perfer to take them someone better than the junkiest food resturant in the world.
I can't even handle their burgers any more.
They taste good, but sit like a rock in my stomach...

 

[FaithPrevails]

While I find that it may be going to far, I don't actually disagree with banning children from some places or restricting the hours that they can be some where. It's not discrimination legally speaking, either. There's a restaurant here that bans anyone under 18 after 8pm. It's their legal right to do so.

I think this movement is coming out of a frustration that is a case of a few ruining things for the whole. Your (you generic) kids may be well behaved but not all and not all parents really care whether or not their kids are disturbing others. Your idea of cute isn't the same as everyone's and not everyone wants to be approached at their table by kids, to have "cute" kids poking their heads up over the next booth and not everyone wants to hear a crying baby. Yes, it's a fact that babies cry, but I for one don't want it disturbing my twice yearly dinner out alone with my husband.

It's not automatically hateful and prejudiced. It's sometimes just a simple matter of business or preference. The restaurant is a high end restaurant that is mostly centered around it's bar and it's alcohol selection. Why does a kid need to go there?

There are places that cater to kids and no one is screaming prejudice there (at least not rationally). Places should be allowed to cater to adults.

I think the bolded part speaks volumes. Even in kid-friendly restaurants, children should still be subject to rules and good behavior. I remember sitting in a kid-friendly place years ago and a little boy ran past our table on his way to the game room. As he passed the table next to ours, he dumped over the bowl with the sugar packets in it - then he looked at me. I gave him a bit of a disapproving glance and told him that wasn't a very nice thing to do. He kept going towards the game room - but came back a few minutes later and as he passed the table, he stopped and fixed the sugar packets. Once again, he made eye contact with me and I smiled big and told him thanks for picking them up.

What he really needed was a parent supervising him (he was about 6-7) setting those boundaries and praising his good choice - not some stranger in a restaurant. But, too many parents in the last 15-20 years have taken a "hands-off" approach to parenting. It has resulted in a couple of really rude, ill-behaved generations, IMO.

I clicked the link in the article about the condo in FL that is voting to ban kids from playing in the parking lot and this excerpt speaks volumes, IMO:

Scott said she recently spotted a girl playing on top of power meters while unsupervised.
"I ran quickly to the mother, and said, 'Ma'am, please get your child before she gets hurt.' Her response was, 'I don't have to. My child can do what she wants,'" Scott said.

That right there is the exact attitude/problem that is creating a need for a "kid-ban" in the first place. Unfortunately, those of us who DO chose to parent our kids have to suffer the consequences b/c [I do personally believe] we are the minority.

 

[Decaffeinated]

I think the bolded part speaks volumes. Even in kid-friendly restaurants, children should still be subject to rules and good behavior. I remember sitting in a kid-friendly place years ago and a little boy ran past our table on his way to the game room. As he passed the table next to ours, he dumped over the bowl with the sugar packets in it - then he looked at me. I gave him a bit of a disapproving glance and told him that wasn't a very nice thing to do. He kept going towards the game room - but came back a few minutes later and as he passed the table, he stopped and fixed the sugar packets. Once again, he made eye contact with me and I smiled big and told him thanks for picking them up.

What he really needed was a parent supervising him (he was about 6-7) setting those boundaries and praising his good choice - not some stranger in a restaurant. But, too many parents in the last 15-20 years have taken a "hands-off" approach to parenting. It has resulted in a couple of really rude, ill-behaved generations, IMO.
.

Agree with the bolded.

 

[FaithPrevails]

That goes for anywhere, mind you - not just the kid-friendly places. I got a call last year from the VP of our elementary school. My younger son had gotten into a spot of trouble and was there to calm down, so I got called and made aware of the situation. I thanked the VP for calling me and then told him that my son would have some consequences at home that night (IIRC, I took away his TV time and sent him to bed early). The VP seemed surprised and thanked me for supporting him/the teacher. I took pause over that - b/c they shouldn't be surprised that a parent is willing to back them up or follow through. Sadly, though, that seems to be the exception rather than the norm.

 

[EmilyF]

The grocery store play areas: 3-11 I think. When you drop a kid off, you sign them in and they make a photocopy of your ID. They give you a little walkie talkie radio thing to call you if you are needed. They don't toilet kids so that's usually why I'm called back. When you go and pick up your kid, you get out your ID again and it;'s compared to the photocopy.

It's staffed by day care type workers. They're background checked. There are activities, toys, videos and Wii. It's probably not the place to send your kid if you're opposed to screen time of Disney movies.

The limit is two hours. Every place that has one also seems to ahve a cafe and I've gone a couple of times just to regain my sanity.

Now, I will be the first to say that I'm not always a very good mom. I've had that kid who needs to be better supervised in public more than a few times. I've learned from it and I don't take my kids to loud chaotic places alone. I can't function in those environments. I've I'm really burnt out, I'm likely to slack off too. I just try to not take them out when I'm like that.

I'm moderate in my parenting, I think. I'm hands-off when needed and I step in when needed. I don't follow a formula or a parenting trend.