The new covenant was given to Israel, not Gentiles

[renniks]

**Disclaimer: Gentiles who believe on the Messiah are grafted into the olive tree, which is Israel - Romans 11. Also, Gentiles who believe on the Messiah are now fellow citizens with God’s people, Israel - Ephesians 2:19. Gentiles who believe in the Messiah are now Israel, and are partakers of the covenant given only to Israel**​

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According to the prophet Jeremiah, the new covenant is only with Israel

Jeremiah 31:31-33


The original covenant was also only made with Israel, according to Jeremiah.

Notice that he did not mention any other nation - he only mentioned Israel(and Judah). He did not say “the house of America”, “the house of Rome”, “the house of Greece” etc

People on here (and in real life) love to say “the old covenant was given only to Israel”, as if the new covenant was not given only to Israel, too.

By their logic, they exclude themselves from the new covenant by default, as the new covenant is only with Israel.

My question is: what covenant are these Gentiles that exclude themselves from Israel and her covenants a part of ?

Did any of the other prophets foretell of another covenant aside from the new covenant that’s only with Israel? If so, what is the covenant, and where is it in the Scriptures?

6It is not as though God’s word has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are Abraham’s descendants are they all his children. On the contrary, “Through Isaac your offspring will be reckoned.” 8So it is not the children of the flesh who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as offspring.…

 

[Bob S]

We all know what Jeremiah wrote and it is true that God has made a new covenant with Israel because the old covenant was broken and it and the words of the covenant no longer exist as being the Jews guide. What we who are Gentiles have to recognize is the fact that Jesus broke down the barrier between Jew and Gentile by taking away the old covenant and its laws. Eph2:15. He told his disciples to go into all the World and spread the Good News of salvation to all.
Mark 16:15
He said to them, “Go into all the world. Preach the good news to everyone.
Does this sound like Gentiles are not included in the new covenant?

As far as the Olive tree is concerned, does our nourishment come from Israel? My nourishment comes from my Savior Jesus Christ. If I am grafted into Israel I too am a dead branch.

 

[Dkh587]

Actually, the New Covenant is given to the New Israel.

"For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but 'Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.' This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring." - Roman 9:6-8

It is those who in the house of Israel believe that participate in the Covenant, the Gentiles that believe become fellow-partakers with them. In other words, the New Israel is the Church, this is the people that God makes this covenant with, consisting Jewish and Gentile believers.

The new covenant is with the house of Israel, not “new Israel”.

God said “their fathers” when referring to the original covenant at Mount Sinai. The “their” is the Israelites - the descendants of those that were at Mount Sinai.

 

[Tone]

We all know what Jeremiah wrote and it is true that God has made a new covenant with Israel because the old covenant was broken and it and the words of the covenant no longer exist as being the Jews guide. What we who are Gentiles have to recognize is the fact that Jesus broke down the barrier between Jew and Gentile by taking away the old covenant and its laws. Eph2:15. He told his disciples to go into all the World and spread the Good News of salvation to all.
Mark 16:15
He said to them, “Go into all the world. Preach the good news to everyone.
Does this sound like Gentiles are not included in the new covenant?

As far as the Olive tree is concerned, does our nourishment come from Israel? My nourishment comes from my Savior Jesus Christ. If I am grafted into Israel I too am a dead branch.

Isaiah 55:1-13
“Come, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and he who has no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. Why do you spend your money for that which is not bread, and your labor for that which does not satisfy? Listen diligently to me, and eat what is good, and delight yourselves in rich food. Incline your ear, and come to me; hear, that your soul may live; and I will make with you an everlasting covenant, my steadfast, sure love for David. Behold, I made him a witness to the peoples, a leader and commander for the peoples. Behold, you shall call a nation that you do not know, and a nation that did not know you shall run to you, because of the Lord your God, and of the Holy One of Israel, for he has glorified you."

Ephesians 2
"11Therefore remember that formerly you who are Gentiles in the flesh and called uncircumcised by the so-called circumcision (that done in the body by human hands)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ."

 

[Dkh587]

All believers are the new Israel of the new covenant.

There’s no such thing as “new Israel”.

The new covenant was given only to the Israelites, but I’m noticing people on here trying to justify their disobedience to God’s commands by saying they were “given only to Israel”, yet these same people say they are part of the new covenant that is given only to Israel, but then say they are not Israel.

 

[Dkh587]

Saved gentiles are actually the true Israel of God.
And there is no more jew or gentile division for those in Christ.


One in Christ
11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens,[d] but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by[e] the Spirit.

Amen. Believing(saved) Gentiles are grafted into the Israel of God. If we’re not Israel, we’re not part of the covenant.

You can’t be a part of a covenant given to a specific group of people if you are not that specific group of people somehow, especially if you boastfully exclude yourself from the specified group the covenant was given to.

 

[Dkh587]

Indeed. Israel with most original branches removed and a large amount of new branches is definitely a new Israel not to mention under a new covenant composed of new "creatures" in Christ.

Even if a majority of branches were cut off, believing Gentiles are still grafted into a tree that was already in existence. The olive tree is not new.

 

[Dkh587]

"The new covenant was given to Israel, not Gentiles"

So, is the covenant given to that which is passing away and which we must also reckon dead?

Reading the prophecy plainly, the new covenant is made with the descendants of the Israelites who were at Mount Sinai.

We read the phrase “their fathers”. Who is the “their” and who were their “fathers”?

 

[Bob S]

There’s no such thing as “new Israel”.

The new covenant was given only to the Israelites,

Only??? where does it say in the Holy Writ that the new covenant is for Israel "only"? Jesus certainly didn't believe His new covenant was for Israel only.

but I’m noticing people on here trying to justify their disobedience to God’s commands by saying they were “given only to Israel”, yet these same people say they are part of the new covenant that is given only to Israel, but then say they are not Israel.

Is Jesus God? He said that He kept the commands (laws of the old covenant) of His Father and He asks us to keep His commands. (love one another as I have loved you) Jn 15 You, on the other hand, are trying to tell the World that we are still under the laws of the old covenant. Why are you disregarding the Word of Jesus?

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

TLDR version:

the coventant(s) were made for Israel ONLY......but anybody can join and become Israel.

 

[Dkh587]

Then we are all growing on the same tree now. All on the same boat of salvation. Why is "given only to Israel" part so important to you?

One reason it’s important is that people on here and in real life don’t think that Israel is the olive tree that we are grafted into. People are being misled in regards to just who we are.

 

[Bob S]

Even if a majority of branches were cut off, believing Gentiles are still grafted into a tree that was already in existence. The olive tree is not new.

Yes, the tree was there for Abraham and for all believers before him. It certainly was not an Israelite tree then just as it is not an Israelite tree today. The nourishment comes from Jesus, not from Israel.

 

[Dkh587]

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(NOTE: God sent His Son to the whole world)

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
(NOTE: The other fold of sheep are Gentiles)

Acts 10:
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
(NOTE: WHOSOSVER believes not just the Jew)


44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit falls on Gentiles)

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(NOTE: Gentiles receive the New Covenant of the indwelling Holy Spirit. The same New Covenant Holy Spirit that came to indwell the Jews 7 years earlier on the Temple Mt at Pentecost Acts 2:4)

Isa 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
(NOTE: Christ will be given as a light to the Gentiles)

Isa 60:3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

Lk 2:32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

Acts 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Paul explains the breaking down of the divide (wall) between Jew & Gentile:

Ephesians 2:
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
(NOTE: The partition Paul is referring to is the dividing wall in the temple in Jerusalem. The wall separated the court of the Gentiles from the rest of the temple. It excluded the Gentiles from innering sanctuaries. A picture of the spiritual barrier that stands between God and man. Which due to sin denies man’s access into God’s presence. Jews could go beyond the dividing wall. They had access through their God given sacrificial system. A shadow of Messiah, the One who would make peace & remove this divide.)

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
(NOTE: Jesus Sin Atoning Sacrifice abolished/terminated the law of commandments contained in ordinances. Now thru Faith, both believing Jew & Gentiles have peace with God are one in Christ)

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
(NOTE: Faith placed in Jesus Sin Atoning Sacrifice removes the dividing wall and reconciles believing Jews & Gentiles to God)

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
(NOTE: Redemption, peace & reconciliation are for Jews & Gentiles)

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
(NOTE: No dividing wall between God for any believing Jew or Gentile. Now both can access God through Faith in Jesus Christ)

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
(NOTE: All believers, weather Jew or Gentile are fellow citizens in Gods household)

I definitely acknowledge that salvation is available to Gentiles who repent and believe on the Messiah.

We become part of God’s people through our faith in Messiah. God’s people is Israel. You’ve even quoted Paul discussing this very topic. We are fellow citizens with Israel. We are all one people through Messiah. We are all Israel.

 

[Bob S]

TLDR version:

the coventant(s) were made for Israel ONLY......but anybody can join and become Israel.

Please explain what TLDR means? I suppose if we look deep enough we can find something that agrees with our take on a subject. I have not made an exhaustive search, but all of the versions I have read do not say "only".

 

[Tone]

Yes, the tree was there for Abraham and for all believers before him. It certainly was not an Israelite tree then just as it is not an Israelite tree today. The nourishment comes from Jesus, not from Israel.

Galatians 6
"15For neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything. What counts is a new creation. 16Peace and mercy to all who walk by this rule, even to the Israel of God."

 

[Dkh587]

We all know what Jeremiah wrote and it is true that God has made a new covenant with Israel because the old covenant was broken and it and the words of the covenant no longer exist as being the Jews guide. What we who are Gentiles have to recognize is the fact that Jesus broke down the barrier between Jew and Gentile by taking away the old covenant and its laws. Eph2:15. He told his disciples to go into all the World and spread the Good News of salvation to all.
Mark 16:15
He said to them, “Go into all the world. Preach the good news to everyone.
Does this sound like Gentiles are not included in the new covenant?

As far as the Olive tree is concerned, does our nourishment come from Israel? My nourishment comes from my Savior Jesus Christ. If I am grafted into Israel I too am a dead branch.

Both the natural and grafted in branches of the olive tree of Israel are nourished by the same root.

Romans 11:17

And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree

We are grafted in to the olive tree of Israel, and we all tap into the same source

 

[Dkh587]

Only??? where does it say in the Holy Writ that the new covenant is for Israel "only"? Jesus certainly didn't believe His new covenant was for Israel only.


Is Jesus God? He said that He kept the commands (laws of the old covenant) of His Father and He asks us to keep His commands. (love one another as I have loved you) Jn 15 You, on the other hand, are trying to tell the World that we are still under the laws of the old covenant. Why are you disregarding the Word of Jesus?

I don’t see any other nations mentioned in Jeremiah 31:31-33. do you?

 

[Dkh587]

Yes, the tree was there for Abraham and for all believers before him. It certainly was not an Israelite tree then just as it is not an Israelite tree today. The nourishment comes from Jesus, not from Israel.

Yes, the nourishment comes through the Messiah. But who and what is being nourished? The olive tree of Israel that we are grafted into.

It’s 1 olive tree consisting of natural and grafted in branches tapping into the same source of nourishment. Romans 11:17

 

[Tone]

Revelation 21
2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21
"11shining with the glory of God. Its radiance was like a most precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12The city had a great and high wall with twelve gates inscribed with the names of the twelve tribes of Israel, and twelve angels at the gates."

 

[Bob S]

Yes, the nourishment comes through the Messiah. But who and what is being nourished? The olive tree of Israel that we are grafted into.

It’s 1 olive tree consisting of natural and grafted in branches tapping into the same source of nourishment. Romans 11:17

Okay, tell us what tree all who came before there was an Israel were grafted into?