The New Covenant Temple, City, and Nation of God

[Douggg]

Then explain John 10:22 for us.

(CJB)　 Then came Hanukkah in Yerushalayim. It was winter,

(ESV)　 At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter,

(Geneva)　 And it was at Hierusalem the feast of the Dedication, and it was winter.

(GW)　 The Festival of the Dedication of the Temple took place in Jerusalem during the winter.

(LITV-TSP)　 And the Feast of Dedication took place in Jerusalem, and it was winter.

(KJV)　 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

(KJV+)　 AndG1161 it wasG1096 atG1722 JerusalemG2414 theG3588 feast of the dedication,G1456 andG2532 it wasG2258 winter.G5494


(NKJV)　 Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter.

(YLT)　 And the dedication in Jerusalem came, and it was winter,

Have you ever heard of Hanukkah before?

It is a Jewish festival which celebrates the rededication of the temple about three years after Antiochus Epiphanes attacked the city and killed thousands of Jews. He also desecrated the temple by setting up a statue and having a pig slaughtered on the altar in the Jewish temple.

It is a historical fact. Look it up if you do not believe me.
Look in any book or source on the history of the Jews, to see it for yourself.

It is found in the writings of the Jewish historian, Josephus, which is found in the link below.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/josephus/war-1.htm


The Jews of Jesus time knew about the desecration in the temple during 167 BC and the rededication of the temple about three years later. That fact is revealed by John 10:22.

If someone is making things up, it is not me...

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I am not disagreeing that them living there in Jesus' time would not have been very aware of what Antiochus had done 163 years earlier, and the act was essentially called the abomination of desolation in Daniel 11:31.

What I am saying is being made up is the assertion that they took what Jesus in Matthew 24, and mistakenly applied it, the abomination of desolation, to the destruction of the temple and city by the Romans in the first century.

Furthermore, we know with 20/20 hindsight that the destruction of the temple and city was not because of the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24 because Jesus has not returned, and the events leading up to it have not happened - although we are close.

 

[Riberra]

Luke 21:20, never mentions the abomination of desolation. In Luke 21:20, it says desolation (of Jerusalem) as well as the destruction of the temple (in Luke 21:6), but not due to the Abomination of desolation.

Daniel 9:21-27 is about the abomination[The Jews killing the Messiah Jesus was the abomination] which caused their desolation ie the destruction of the City and The Temple by the Roman Army in 70 AD [Luke 21:6 Luke 21:20]).

Also, in Daniel 8, there is the Transgression of desolation by the little horn, another end times vision. That's not in Luke 21:20 either.

Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 about the Little Horn are effectively End Times prophecies...and have nothing to do with Daniel 9:21-27.

 

[Matthew Twentyfour]

There are many who know nothing about the Abomination of Desolation by Antiochus Epiphanes during 167 BC, when he attacked the city of Jerusalem killing thousands of Jews and stopped the temple sacrifices for about 3 years.

Yet you seem to think the abomination of desolation occurred when Antiochus sacrificed a pig. I don't see how God would consider that being the abomination that would cause a desolation of the Jewish temple.

Antiochus Epiphanes attacked the city and killed thousands of Jews. He also desecrated the temple by setting up a statue and having a pig slaughtered on the altar in the Jewish temple.

 

[BABerean2]

Yet you seem to think the abomination of desolation occurred when Antiochus sacrificed a pig. I don't see how God would consider that being the abomination that would cause a desolation of the Jewish temple.

Based on the sacrificial system of the Old Covenant only certain animals could be sacrificed in the temple and only by the Levitical priesthood.

Pigs were an unclean animal in the Old Covenant system.

Therefore, sacrificing an unclean animal would be an abomination.

Antiochus also set up a statue of Zeus in the temple and he had earlier claimed that he was a reincarnation of Zeus. This would also be considered an abomination.


It is not about what I think. Do a little research on Hanukkah and you will find it is a part of Jewish history.

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[Matthew Twentyfour]

Based on the sacrificial system of the Old Covenant only certain animals could be sacrificed in the temple and only by the Levitical priesthood.

Pigs were an unclean animal in the Old Covenant system.

Therefore, sacrificing an unclean animal would be an abomination.

Killing a pig is not the abomination of desolation. Think about it next time you eat pork.

 

[Douggg]

Daniel 9:21-27 is about the abomination[The Jews killing the Messiah Jesus was the abomination] which caused their desolation ie the destruction of the City and The Temple by the Roman Army in 70 AD [Luke 21:6 Luke 21:20]).

The abomination of desolation stand in the holy place... is not Jesus being crucified.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

 

[Another Lazarus]

Antiochus also set up a statue of Zeus in the temple and he had earlier claimed that he was a reincarnation of Zeus.

Antiochus never made any 7 years Peace covenant between Israel-Arabs enemies.
he also didnt summon fire from the sky in front of the people at the Temple in Jerusalem.

antichrist will make peace here and there, Antiochus didnt.
Dan 8:25 ... and by peace shall destroy many..

Also the Jews didnt make an exodus out of Jerusalem after the attack on 70 AD.
the war continued by Bar Koshba rebellion which was much greater.

The exodus of Jews out of Israel will happen followed by the Great Tribulation which not yet happen !!!
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak.19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers!20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

Baberean2 i suggest you come up with History instead of Story.

May Jesus bless you all HalleluYAH

 

[BABerean2]

Killing a pig is not the abomination of desolation. Think about it next time you eat pork.

Go to the home of a Jewish family who keeps the Kosher food laws and give them a pork roast.
Tell them it is a pork roast.
You will then find out something you apparently do not know...

Antiochus IV Epiphanes - Wikipedia

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[BABerean2]

Antiochus never made any 7 years Peace covenant between Israel-Arabs enemies.
he also didnt summon fire from the sky in front of the people at the Temple in Jerusalem.

antichrist will make peace here and there, Antiochus didnt.
Dan 8:25 ... and by peace shall destroy many..

Also the Jews didnt make an exodus out of Jerusalem after the attack on 70 AD.
the war continued by Bar Koshba rebellion which was much greater.

The exodus of Jews out of Israel will happen followed by the Great Tribulation which not yet happen !!!
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak.19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers!20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

Baberean2 i suggest you come up with History instead of Story.

May Jesus bless you all HalleluYAH

I gave a link to the History written by the Jewish Historian Josephus, but you keep telling the Story from the minds of John Nelson Darby and C.I. Scofield. You are forcing the text of scripture to fit their Story.

In their Story God is going back to the now "obsolete" (Hebrews 8:13) Sinai Covenant during a future time period of 7 years, even though the New Covenant is "everlasting" (Hebrews 13:20). This Story comes completely apart with those under the Blood of the Lamb in Revelation 12:11. A person cannot be under the Blood of the Lamb and not be under the Grace of the New Covenant.

Anyone who understands the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:18-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8 would never believe any of their Story to begin with.

Their Story only works on those who are ignorant of Jewish history and the fulfillment of the New Covenant.
Ask any modern Jew about Hanukkah and they can explain John 10:22 to you.

Below is a link to the history of Hanukkah, which includes the events of 167 BC and the attack by Antiochus Epiphanes.

Hanukkah - Wikipedia

Antiochus IV Epiphanes - Wikipedia


Below you will find a summary of the 7 year covenant.

 

[Matthew Twentyfour]

Go to the home of a Jewish family who keeps the Kosher food laws and give them a pork roast.
Tell them it is a pork roast.
You will then find out something you apparently do not know...

Antiochus IV Epiphanes - Wikipedia

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Going back to Jewish laws now? Did you know Jesus's death on the cross did away with them? And did you bother to read the link before posting? It said nothing about Antiochus committing the abomination of desolation or the killing of a pig.

 

[BABerean2]

Going back to Jewish laws now? Did you know Jesus's death on the cross did away with them? And did you bother to read the link before posting? It said nothing about Antiochus committing the abomination of desolation or the killing of a pig.

No. Not me.

Yes.

Yes.

Both links have a reference to Antiochus Epiphanes.
The second link is about Antiochus Epiphanes and refers to the writings of Josephus, which detail the desecration of the temple during 167 BC. It is a historical fact, which is not that difficult to find.

If you try not to find the information, you probably will not find it.

Here it is in the link below.


The Mystery of Hanukkah

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[Riberra]

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[Riberra]

The abomination of desolation stand in the holy place... is not Jesus being crucified.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Can you tell us what the sentence The ABOMINATION which cause the DESOLATION means to you ?

-Can you tell us what The TRANSGRESSION of DESOLATION means to you?

-The word ABOMINATION and the word TRANSGRESSION are not synonymous.

Both refers to two different events happening in two different times but who occurs in the same place ie in Jerusalem.

-One of these event ie [Daniel 9:21-27]have been fullfilled nearly 2,000 years ago
Biblical proof here:
Link
The 70th Week Of Daniel Covenant Deception

-The other prophesied event ie[Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 about the little horn ] is yet to come in a still unknown time in the future...

Hint:
-Holy Place does not mean necessary inside a TEMPLE.
-Jerusalem is the Holy City.

 

[Douggg]

Can you tell us what the sentence The ABOMINATION which cause the DESOLATION means to you ?

-Can you tell us what The TRANSGRESSION of DESOLATION means to you?

-The word ABOMINATION and the word TRANSGRESSION are not synonymous.

Both refers to two different events happening in two different times but who occurs in the same place ie in Jerusalem.

-One of these event ie [Daniel 9:21-27]have been fullfilled nearly 2,000 years ago
Biblical proof here:
Link
The 70th Week Of Daniel Covenant Deception

-The other prophesied event ie[Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 about the little horn ] is yet to come in a still unknown time in the future...

Hint:
-Holy Place does not mean necessary inside a TEMPLE.
-Jerusalem is the Holy City.

The abomination of desolation and transgression of desolation are not synonymous, agreed. But neither the Daniel 8 transgression of desolation, nor abomination of desolation of Daniel 12/Matthew 24:15 have happened yet.

The set of events is that the then Antichrist, King of Israel at the time, will go into the temple, sit, claim to be God. In Daniel 8, it says he magnifies himself in his heart. That act is the transgression of desolation, because he transgresses the Mt. Sinai covenant to have no other gods, but the one true God. It is the act described in 2thessalonians2:3-4. It also ends his time as the King of Israel, as the Jews will reject him from continuing as their king.

God, angered by the person's actions, will bring foreigners from another land, who will kill him. It is not clear about who will kill him, or other details. But it is in Ezekiel 28:1-10, as a message to the prince of tyre, a code name for the person, just as the king of tyre is a code name for Satan in the later verses of Ezekiel 28:12-19.

We can observe the same characteristics and actions of the person. In Ezekiel 28, 1-10, the person has magnified himself in his heart, he sits in the seat of God among the seas - that is, showing the nations, his claim of being God. But God declares he is not God, but a man, and brings strangers against him who will kill him.

In Isaiah 14, the person, killed, has found himself in hell, mocked, until God in disdain for the person kicks him out of the grave, because he betrays his land and his people - that is, he had transgressed the covenant by claiming to be God.

Come back to life, the person is the first beast in Revelation13, simply referred to as the beast until Jesus returns, 42 months later. The person's return to life will be the strong delusion that God sends in 2thessalonians2, to them who reject the truth of the gospel to save them.

The false prophet will have the world make an image of the person, the beast that was slain but yet lived. That image, will be a statue of the person. Which the false prophet appearing by miracle brings the statue to life, that it speaks and breathes. When in actuality, it will be Satan who will incarnate the image. The image will stand in the temple, and everyone will worship it, and the power within - which will be Satan. That image is the Abomination of Desolation.

Ultimately, in the end, what happens to the living image that everyone has to worship? The bible does not say outright. But we are given enough information in Ezekiel 28:12-19 in the message to the king of Tyre, code name for Satan, to be pretty certain of.

God is going to cast him down to earth - which also we read will take place in Revelation 12. Then God is going to expose Satan for all the kings of the earth to behold - that is, he will become exposed, visible, in plain sight.

In Revelation 16, the kings of the earth gather their armies at Armageddon, so they will be watching intently. As Jesus descends, by the brightness of his coming, which we don't know exactly what that will be like, but in Ezekiel 28:18-19, when God exposes Satan for the kings of the earth to see, God does so by causing a fire to come up in the midst of Satan.

From that, I think it is pretty clear, that the image, made in the likeness of the beast, will be burnt up, the part made by human hands, melted away by the brightness of Jesus's coming; and there will be Satan exposed on the temple mount. Everyone will be astonished, speechless.

When you think about it, Satan has to be exposed for the lone angel to descend with a chain and bind him, as he is delivered to the bottomless pit.

So that is what is going to happen to the Abomination of Desolation, the image of the beast.

 

[Another Lazarus]

Go to the home of a Jewish family who keeps the Kosher food laws and give them a pork roast.
.

If you offer pork to the Jewish family they will be angry but that is not AOD.

Abomination of Desolation is antichrist entering the Temple of God and claiming himself as God.
2 Thes 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin
be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the Temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

You'd better come up with History instead of STORY.

May Jesus bless you all HalleluYAH

 

[BABerean2]

If you offer pork to the Jewish family they will be angry but that is not AOD.

Abomination of Desolation is antichrist entering the Temple of God and claiming himself as God.
2 Thes 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin
be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the Temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

You'd better come up with History instead of STORY.

May Jesus bless you all HalleluYAH

The AOD occurred during 167 BC when Antiochus Epiphanes attacked the city of Jerusalem killing thousands of Jews and had a pig slaughtered on the altar and also set up a statue of himself in the temple. It is a matter of Jewish history.

Daniel predicted the event before it happened, which proves the Bible is the Word of God.

However, some of us must deny all of the above in an effort to force God's Word to fit John Nelson Darby's Two Peoples of God doctrine.

If you could erase the Jewish celebration of Hanukkah revealed in John 10:22, then maybe you could get others to believe that a rebuilt Jewish temple in modern Israel is the temple of God.

However, it would be a "synagogue of Satan", instead. God does not dwell in temples made with human hands.

Jesus Christ is the temple of God, as He plainly said in the New Testament.

I am the temple of God, indwelled by the Holy Spirit sent down from God. Let Him be your teacher and He will reveal Christ in God's Word. (John 14:26)

Rev 2:9　 "I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.　

Rev 3:9　 Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.　


Any man who sits in the temple of God claiming to be God, would be someone pretending to be a part of the Church, as understood by all of the Reformers.

Dispensational Futurism has blinded many with its "Story", which is not found in God's Word.


Great Errors in Dispensational Theology: Pastor John Otis

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[miknik5]

The AOD occurred during 167 BC when Antiochus Epiphanes attacked the city of Jerusalem killing thousands of Jews and had a pig slaughtered on the altar and also set up a statue of himself in the temple. It is a matter of Jewish history.

And a parallel pointing us to a prophecied day

Daniel predicted the event before it happened, which proves the Bible is the Word of God.

Daniels prophecy was for the time of the end

However, some of us must deny all of the above in an effort to force God's Word to fit John Nelson Darby's Two Peoples of God doctrine.

I don't believe there are two separate houses GOD is building for HIS called and chosen in CHRIST
I believe there's one

If you could erase the Jewish celebration of Hanukkah revealed in John 10:22, then maybe you could get others to believe that a rebuilt Jewish temple in modern Israel is the temple of God.

As well if we could get people to remember Haggai 2, Ezra 3, and Zechariah 4 maybe they would understand that no one has the right to build with their hands period

However, it would be a "synagogue of Satan", instead. God does not dwell in temples made with human hands.

Jesus Christ is the temple of God, as He plainly said in the New Testament.

I am the temple of God, indwelled by the Holy Spirit sent down from God. Let Him be your teacher and He will reveal Christ in God's Word. (John 14:26)

Rev 2:9　 "I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.　

Rev 3:9　 Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.　

Any man who sits in the temple of God claiming to be God, would be someone pretending to be a part of the Church, as understood by all of the Reformers.

My understanding is that there won't be a church because there won't be believers during the time the temple is being built

dispensational Futurism has blinded many with its "Story", which is not found in God's Word.

Great Errors in Dispensational Theology: Pastor John Otis

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[miknik5]

If you offer pork to the Jewish family they will be angry but that is not AOD.

Abomination of Desolation is antichrist entering the Temple of God and claiming himself as God.
2 Thes 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin
be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the Temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

You'd better come up with History instead of STORY.

May Jesus bless you all HalleluYAH

Blood of any unclean animal offered through unclean hands before GOD translates to the same thing

 

[BABerean2]

My understanding is that there won't be a church because there won't be believers during the time the temple is being built

Rev 12:11　 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.　
(A person cannot be under the Blood of the Lamb and not be under the Grace of the New Covenant.)

Heb 8:13　 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.　(God is not going back to the obsolete Old Covenant during a future time.)

Heb 13:20　 Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,　


Heb 12:22　 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,　
Heb 12:23　 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,　
Heb 12:24　 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.　


The New Covenant is "everlasting".
The New Covenant Church of Christ does not end before the Second Coming of Christ.

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[miknik5]

Rev 12:11　 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.　
(A person cannot be under the Blood of the Lamb and not be under the Grace of the New Covenant.)

Heb 8:13　 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.　(God is not going back to the obsolete Old Covenant during a future time.)

Heb 13:20　 Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,　


Heb 12:22　 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,　
Heb 12:23　 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,　
Heb 12:24　 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.　


The New Covenant is "everlasting".
The New Covenant Church of Christ does not end before the Second Coming of Christ.

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The NEW COVENANT is already in effect And the gathering up to GOD is already being done in CHRIST JESUS

1 John 5 already states those who have overcome

Yet what is given to John to know in revelation at the beginning chapters 1 through chapter 3 already implies that some of HIS CHURCH (HIS BODY) will forget and will be overcome rarher than overcome

They will go out from
HIM. And those who remain in HIM
and hold to THE TESTIMONY of JESUS will be killed

What you quoted you forgot to include that these who overcame by HIS BLOOD who did not love their lives even to the death held to THE TESTIMONY...

they did not love their lives even to the death
( they were killed)

Those who have entered in are already covered in the RIGHT GARMENT (white robes).
Anyone and everyone from all nations and all peoples whose names are written in the lambs book of life have the same wedding garment and are coming to the wedding feast of the Lamb