The New and Improved No-Straw-Man Challenge

Grip Docility

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I responded because you took a snippet out of context. The disingenuousness of the post needed addressing.
"disingenuousness" If I post scripture, do you not go to commentary, before you respond, if you have a question? Link to come.
 
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Hammster

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RCC not the Roman Catholic Church.. RCC the Reformed Collective Counsel. If you don't use this term, I apologize. I have had many reformed friends that do.
Really? Can you provide a link to what that is? I can’t find it on Google.
 
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Hammster

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I say HRCC for Holy Roman Catholic Church. Communication error. Miscommunication. Take the Debate points in this matter. There's more to be discussed.
I still have seen no evidence that you understand what Sola Scriptura means.
 
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Hammster

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John 5:39 is the single most important scripture in all of the Bible. Why? What is it saying?
Where does scripture say it’s the most important verse?
 
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Hammster

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Are you comfortable with this quote?

“I am persuaded that it is not without the special will of God that, apart from any verdict of the judges, the criminals have endured protracted torment at the hands of the executioner.” - Calvin's letter to Farel on 24 July read Selected Works of John Calvin)

Context
If I write to you so seldom respecting the state of our city, impute the cause to the slowness of those who ought to furnish me with matter for writing, rather than to my indolence. For while the time is spun out by their dilatory progress, I am ashamed to write to you that nothing has as yet been done. How wickedly at their death the two brothers attempted to throw obscurity on the affair, you have no doubt heard in your part of the world. It is well, however, that their malice was evident to every body, unless any one chose to be voluntarily blind. And assuredly I am convinced that not without the judgment of God they suffered, contrary to the sentence of the judges, a long torture under the hand of the executioner. Now, those who are kept in fetters have pretty clearly revealed their misdeeds, though these also grossly mislead their judges. Claude Noth, who you know was the bosom friend of Perrin, has laid bare the criminal and atrocious conspiracy which had not yet been thoroughly known. The younger Berthelier does not deny that he threw the stone by which a man was knocked down. But then both of them attempt to varnish over every thing with the most puerile shuffling. Before two days we shall see, I hope, what the rack will wring from them. Moreover, lest the absence of so many citizens should depopulate the city, as the run-aways kept saying in derision, Vandel has been summoned back by the town crier, together with a numerous band.
This has nothing to do with your assertion that Calvin is the origin of Calvinism.
 
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Grip Docility

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Really? Can you provide a link to what that is? I can’t find it on Google.
No, because it's a discussion thing. To refer to the "Reformed Body", many of my Calvinist friends would just lazy write RCC. I corrected them and they would say "Reformed Collective Counsel"... and I started typing HRCC to refer to Roman Catholics. You have this debate point. It was a colloquial thing.
 
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Hammster

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"disingenuousness" If I post scripture, do you not go to commentary, before you respond, if you have a question? Link to come.
No, I don’t, actually. I don’t find your arguments to be that deep.
 
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Grip Docility

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No, I don’t, actually. I don’t find your arguments to be that deep.
I'm not asking to be seen as intelligent. Could you please explain what John 5:39 is saying?
 
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No, because it's a discussion thing. To refer to the "Reformed Body", many of my Calvinist friends would just lazy write RCC. I corrected them and they would say "Reformed Collective Counsel"... and I started typing HRCC to refer to Roman Catholics. You have this debate point. It was a colloquial thing.
I’ve been on here for 17 years. I have interacted with Calvinists and non-Calvinists during most of that time. I have never once heard a reformed brother use “RCC” to mean anything other than the Catholic Church. And you are saying you have many friends that use RCC, yet I cannot find that anywhere on the internet?

Mkay.
 
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Hammster

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I'm not asking to be seen as intelligent. Could you please explain what John 5:39 is saying?
No, that would be commentary. You are against commentary.
 
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Grip Docility

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I’ve been on here for 17 years. I have interacted with Calvinists and non-Calvinists during most of that time. I have never once heard a reformed brother use “RCC” to mean anything other than the Catholic Church. And you are saying you have many friends that use RCC, yet I cannot find that anywhere on the internet?

Mkay.
It wasn't here. May I now employ the usage of sarcastic response, with your guarantee that it is acceptable to follow your debate example?
 
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Grip Docility

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No, that would be commentary. You are against commentary.
Commentary is writ that is extra biblical, that has been widely distributed as Brick and Mortar central doctrine, which is not Canon. It can come in PDF, Leather bound, Paper back, and may not be central to church doctrine, but based on central church doctrine. I will give a live example. Edit, example given in lower quote of this post.


That’s a Socratic question. Thats teaching.
I don't want to be misunderstood as saying something that is unmotivated. You are the OP and have identified one of my debate style nomenclatures. I am attempting to continue dialogue by identifying the technique that is stalling effective dialogue.
This is discussion. Sophistry is humorous, cynical and sarcastic, but all humor aside, would you be willing to explain what John 5:39 is saying?

It’s so clear that God used Satan to test Job that virtually all theologians, regardless of their bent, agree. Wesley and Gill and Henry and Barnes and Clarke all agree.

Would you kindly share the full names of these theologians?
 
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Grip Docility

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I still have seen no evidence that you understand what Sola Scriptura means.
Are you certain that you know what it means? "Sola scriptura is a Latin phrase that means "by scripture alone" or "scripture alone". It is a key slogan of the Protestant Reformation, which used the phrase against the Roman Catholic church in the 16th century. The phrase means that the Bible is the only authority for Christian faith and practice."
 
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Hammster

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Commentary is writ that is extra biblical, that has been widely distributed as Brick and Mortar central doctrine, which is not Canon. It can come in PDF, Leather bound, Paper back, and may not be central to church doctrine, but based on central church doctrine. I will give a live example. Edit, example given in lower quote of this post.
If I explained the meaning, it would be extra-biblical.
I don't want to be misunderstood as saying something that is unmotivated. You are the OP and have identified one of my debate style nomenclatures. I am attempting to continue dialogue by identifying the technique that is stalling effective dialogue.
This is discussion. Sophistry is humorous, cynical and sarcastic, but all humor aside, would you be willing to explain what John 5:39 is saying?
No. It goes against what you believe to be proper teaching/learning.
Would you kindly share the full names of these theologians?
John Wesley, John Gill, Matthew Henry, Albert Barnes, Adam Clarke
 
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Hammster

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Are you certain that you know what it means? "Sola scriptura is a Latin phrase that means "by scripture alone" or "scripture alone". It is a key slogan of the Protestant Reformation, which used the phrase against the Roman Catholic church in the 16th century. The phrase means that the Bible is the only authority for Christian faith and practice."
Close. It’s the ultimate authority. Every other authority is subject to scripture.
 
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Grip Docility

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If I explained the meaning, it would be extra-biblical.
Discussion is not Adhering to Extra Biblical writings that shape millions of minds of Christ away from Christ's precepts.
No. It goes against what you believe to be proper teaching/learning.
My above reply is sufficient.
John Wesley, John Gill, Matthew Henry, Albert Barnes, Adam Clarke
Wesley: Wesley maintained that the monergistic reading (that is, the work of God alone) in one sense is accurate.
Gill: He considered his Calvinistic system to be the only true faith, and he defended it with fervor and dogmatism.
Henry: Nonconformist Reformed
Barnes: Barnes was a classic 4-point Calvinist and associated with folks such as Henry B. Smith and Lyman Beecher.
Clarke: Monergist

These Theologians, whether they proport to follow Calvin or not via the Armenian argument, still follow that monergism is the only way.

They all are used to replace scripture, by many. They are Fallible. Scripture is not. All we need is scripture with the Holy Spirit of Christ.

Discussion is not Commentary. This discussion isn't being transposed into Brick and Mortar doctrine.
 
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Grip Docility

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Close. It’s the ultimate authority. Every other authority is subject to scripture.
It was intended to mean Canon only. Luther accused the HRCC of using Papal infallibility and proceeding Papal writings, which he argued against the HRCC on those matters and demanded that only Canon be used. The proceeding events even led to redefining books that were Deuterocanonical and included in Paul's Septuagint, and quoted by Jesus and the Apostles in several places as Apocryphal (false).

It was about Canon only. The later derailing of this actually re-established the same error's that extra biblical writ caused the HRCC.

This isn't speculation. This is what we now see. Jesus foretold it. The only response is to go to Canon only.
 
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Grip Docility

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Close. It’s the ultimate authority. Every other authority is subject to scripture.
If you don't understand what John 5:39 means, I apologize for asking the uncomfortable question about what it means. Maybe you do understand it. I'm not sure. I was just hoping you could state what Jesus is saying in John 5:39, by your personal understanding, through the Holy Spirit, in reference to the passage.
 
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